Look Pivot 14 Dual WTR - Gripwalk compatible issues?

[Ørion]

Forgive the potentially Jong-y question but I picked up a set of skis mounted with Look Pivot 14 dual WTR from 2017 or 2018. Research online and digging into the Look technical manuals seem to indicate that they are Gripwalk compatible "in the alpine position". According to the documentation, you just adjust it from WTR to Alpine and you should be good to go, no height adjustment needed (or even possible).

What I cannot find online, after extensive searching, is how the AFD should interface with a Gripwalk boot when in the alpine position. I've dealt with fixed AFDs before and know the rule of thumb about a "business card" space between sole and AFD. The Pivot 14 Dual has a sliding/gliding AFD though and when the boot is clicked in there is no daylight between the sliding AFD and the boot's plate and I cannot move the AFD by hand.

Is this normal or is it an indication that, despite Look's claim that they are gripwalk compatible, they aren't compatible with this particular gripwalk boot (Atomic Hawx Ultra)?

[Eluder]

Look toes don't have manual toe height adjustment so the "business card" method is out the window, there is always contact with the AFD even with alpine boots. Perfect world the AFD on the boot and binding line up perfectly, if not these bindings have a sliding AFD and you are fine. I have skied this exact combo you are good to go.

[zlatham]

Im in the same boat, so not having looked yet as my wifes skis aren’t mounted, sounds like the afd would be in the alpine position w/Gripwalk soles.


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[Lord Thomas]

Along these same lines, for those of you who have skied both the sliding WTR/Alpine AFD's and the fixed AFD's, either alpine or GW, do you notice any difference in how they ski? Seems like I remember someone bitching about the sliding AFD's back in the distant past. Maybe they were just whiney little bitches.

[Ørion]

Look toes don't have manual toe height adjustment so the "business card" method is out the window, there is always contact with the AFD even with alpine boots. Perfect world the AFD on the boot and binding line up perfectly, if not these bindings have a sliding AFD and you are fine. I have skied this exact combo you are good to go.

Yeah, I figured the business card method was out the window since there's no adjustment. Just didn't know if that gap was 100% necessary with sliding AFD since I don't have any experience with them. I presume your setup also had the same symptoms then (boot touching the AFD with enough force to prevent it from sliding when clicked in)?

Im in the same boat, so not having looked yet as my wifes skis aren’t mounted, sounds like the afd would be in the alpine position w/Gripwalk soles.

Supposedly yes, you just need to twist the screw to "Alpine" to make the WTR Pivots compatible with Gripwalk...supposedly.

Along these same lines, for those of you who have skied both the sliding WTR/Alpine AFD's and the fixed AFD's, either alpine or GW, do you notice any difference in how they ski? Seems like I remember someone bitching about the sliding AFD's back in the distant past. Maybe they were just whiney little bitches.

Haven't skied them yet, but since I've spent a crazy amount of time reading about them recently trying to figure out my thing, I picked up a few tidbits. In a nutshell the consensus seems to be that they release more smoothly but that, given they have more moving parts, are more likely to break.

[HAB]

Along these same lines, for those of you who have skied both the sliding WTR/Alpine AFD's and the fixed AFD's, either alpine or GW, do you notice any difference in how they ski? Seems like I remember someone bitching about the sliding AFD's back in the distant past. Maybe they were just whiney little bitches.

The Pivot dual WTR AFD is noticeably sloppy. I don't mind sliding AFDs on some other bindings but that particular one is kinda shitty.

The GW and Alpine-only also ski noticeably differently, but that's really all down to stance. The GW toe is taller, and sets you more upright.

[Lord Thomas]

The Pivot dual WTR AFD is noticeably sloppy. I don't mind sliding AFDs on some other bindings but that particular one is kinda shitty.

The GW and Alpine-only also ski noticeably differently, but that's really all down to stance. The GW toe is taller, and sets you more upright.

This is useful information.

[NBABUCKS1]

I literally was about to post the same question (bought look pivot WTR and have Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD) so thank you for making this post OP.

Sounds like I"m going to catch and release these Pivot 12 WTR's I just bought based on HAB's comment. I'd rather just have the right binding

[Ørion]

I literally was about to post the same question (bought look pivot WTR and have Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD) so thank you for making this post OP.

Sounds like I"m going to catch and release these Pivot 12 WTR's I just bought based on HAB's comment. I'd rather just have the right binding

If its no significant cost, might as well go with a version that isn't retro-certed as compatible, but if it helps:

Since this was a used setup I dropped the skis (with the pivots in question) and my boots off at my local shop to get a binding test and tune done. They did a visual inspection when I checked them in and assured me that solid contact with the Pivot sliding AFD is completely normal with gripwalk boots and shouldn't be an issue during release.

I'll be picking them up next weekend and will report back to confirm they passed the release test.

[Eluder]

I like the stance better than the new ones but happily use both. I have pivot WTR 14's, 15, and 18's IMO they all ski great. I do have an extra AFD for when I break one though.

[Ørion]

Small update to any future readers:

Despite having firm contact with the sliding AFD when turned to Alpine mode, my 17/18 Look Pivot 14 Dual WTR bindings and gripwalk boots passed the release test at my local shop with ease.

Now I need to chew out my other local shop that told me my bindings were incompatible (and broken), but they'd happily sell me a new set of Gripwalk Pivots...

[gregL]

Now I need to chew out my other local shop that told me my bindings were incompatible (and broken), but they'd happily sell me a new set of Gripwalk Pivots...

In their defense, Look originally only indemnified the Dual WTR bindings for WTR and ISO5355; they later changed their mind and said GripWalk was OK.

[Ørion]

In their defense, Look originally only indemnified the Dual WTR bindings for WTR and ISO5355; they later changed their mind and said GripWalk was OK.

Oh yeah, when they first said they were incompatible I thought it was a simple misunderstanding (since they're not labeled GW anywhere) and tried explaining the confusing situation around these bindings with how Look retroactively okayed GripWalk. They doubled down and insisted that not only were they incompatible, they had been mounted too close together, getting proper forward pressure was impossible, and skiing them like that had ruined them and I needed to replace them. They pointed to the wear marks on the heel from Dynafit inserts (see Dee Hub's post here for an example) as visual proof that this had happened. Then they offered to sell me new bindings.

It was a really strange interaction. Bought the skis used so I obviously don't know their full history and anything's possible, but I did know they were on their first mount, only the original owner had skied on them, and I not gotten the chance to used them yet. I also knew I had obsessively read the Pivot forward pressure thread back-to-front several times over and was fairly certain that I actually had the bindings a hair too loose at the moment and needed to snug up the forward pressure a turn or a turn and a half. Raised my eyebrow enough I decided to take it to another shop.

In true passive-aggressive PNW fashion though, I probably won't actually chew them out, just never go back to them and rag on the unnamed shop anonymously.

[Ethanbt]

.

I apologize to OP and Police moderators about hijacking this thread to get in touch with Eluder since I am new and cannot post in gear sale yet.
Eluder please let me know if you interest to sale me the Tyrolia attack 95 brake. I am in need this binding. Thank you!

[DGamms]

Is the reverse scenario also compatible? Do older WTR boots work with newer GW Pivots? I’m usually an STH/STH2 guy so my Pivot knowledge is minimal.

[Pins and Skins]

My understanding is that the GW interface (on Pivots or otherwise) do not work with WTR soles. I've seen this on Pivot docs as well as STH2 docs.

Evo also has this useful chart: https://www.evo.com/guides/ski-boot-...-compatibility

Is the reverse scenario also compatible? Do older WTR boots work with newer GW Pivots? I’m usually an STH/STH2 guy so my Pivot knowledge is minimal.