East Coast Roll Call 21-22 We have a hot date with Skadi, Pictures at 11

[AdironRider]

"But you said you gave Mary Jane a pearl necklace"

"Obviously you missed the point of that story"

[buckethead]

Man now they have food service reduction due to Covid. I know a little about mountain management and food is one of the positive cash flows that keeps the lights on. Thanks mniaw for the update. Magic mountain does things right. I definitely wish them the very best.

I don’t remember any of us talking about squaw when the chairs slid on the rope last year. https://liftblog.com/2021/02/12/chai...ers-big-squaw/

Not much talk about the poor snow maker on the snowmobile who collided with the groomer and died the other day.

We do need snow badly. 27 days so far. Way to go mniaw. Not easy with these conditions, but I bet your turn is sweet now

i did hear on the local news that the person on the snowmobile was hit by a groomer going in reverse. the deceased was a 30 year old woman.

https://www.necn.com/news/local/mass...crash/2646917/

very sad, especially with my having made 100% of this season's turns there, thanks to their impressive snowmakingp effort. condolences to all impacted...

^^and wow MNIAW: 27 days. and it hasn't even snowed!
hope to see you at magic on one of
these powder days
you speak of ;0]

^^ nice pics vtfree. glad you were able to fix that problem.
i * almost* remember what that kind of repair work felt like!

[buttahflake]

He said Pfister, heh-heh

[2nd mate]

Id love to hear opinions on what nh hills deserve dome love friday. I just got texted from my kids schools that they already called it a long weekend. Looks like south and East will get the best totals but something tells me snow will linger in franconia notch….plan to use indy pass.

[Bottleman]

He said Pfister, heh-heh

Is that what the three in one oil and gauze pads are for?


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[Peruvian]

Is that what the three in one oil and gauze pads are for?


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Pfister...I barely even know her!

[Bottleman]

Pfister...I barely even know her!

[buckethead]

^ nice execution, classy ending

so do we get some snow now?

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Id love to hear opinions on what nh hills deserve dome love friday. I just got texted from my kids schools that they already called it a long weekend. Looks like south and East will get the best totals but something tells me snow will linger in franconia notch….plan to use indy pass.

Easy answer if you have Epic...Sunapee. It's far enough south that it may get the fringes of this coastal storm. Skied there this morning. A surprise 2" fell after they groomed last night and our first 3 runs were almost like real skiing. Nothing there is steep and none of the woods are in play but the ski conditions have been phenomenal so far this year. I did not ski there last week and I heard it was a shitshow but that was to be expected.

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Did your homework but still having trouble with the concept, I guess. Will have to explain to you at some point how one can both hope for a favorable result yet also acknowledge reality. That's not equivocating, and I think you could have figured that out on your own...

Look, I get that I've violated rules one and two of Magic Fight Club, but the reflexive defensiveness and apologies for what goes on over there are absurd. And you can't write this off to armchair qb'ing from jongs who know nothing about the ski industry--I've had far too many conversations with people who know and ski and Magic and also work in the industry (including someone who has literally run ski areas--successfully, for the record) about this topic (most recently a conversation immediately after Magic managed to dump a chair from the line during operation). What everyone is 'imagining' about the failure to run this place effectively is in fact reality. And had there been a catastrophic lift failure at a place like Bromley, or Plattekill, or whatever, there wouldn't have been the silence about the topic that can't be discussed, particularly not if it followed years of similar problems (every. single. year.). In the past those who have pointed these things out have been shouted down by the true believers, but that doesn't change what's lead to all of this.

Clearly I see things differently than those who want to explain/justify every problem that the mountain has, but IMO the people who are doing that aren't looking at this in anything close to an objective way (again, were any other place to be run similarly the problems would be discussed at length and without the knee jerk apologias).

And I'll repeat (even at the risk of continuing to confuse MMP) that I hope things work out, but for yet another year I'm not at all reassured by what I see happening (I know critical posts are never well received here, but in all honesty I've put things very mildly and have almost always refrained from posting about the numerous Magicment shortcomings). (For MNIAW, a shortcoming is something that results in things like having no snowmaking on half of the mountain, or trying to implement critical lift maintenance in December, or buying a used lift without any plan on how to install it--yes, I'm sure Jeff with a G has an explanation for all of it.)

Do you think Magic wanted to defer that maintenance to December? All you armchair QBs seem to think you can just wave your hand and things will happen. It was a chain of events outside of their control that led to the timing. If you think I'm just a shill for the mountain, that's your perogative. If I don't know you, I can't either value or not value your opinion, so it's just words to me. Dex, I know you a little and we should have beers to resolve this. As to the snowmaking coverage, it's hard to argue that it hasn't gotten better since the most recent group took over. In 2016 the coverage was under 25% so they've doubled their coverage. Everybody also seems to forget (or maybe doesn't know) that when the Fairbank Group decided to shutter Magic, they cut holes in most of the snowmaking pipes to ensure Magic could never again compete with their resort down the street. All these things cost money and there is no money tree on Glebe Mountain so they have to do things a little at a time. To be honest, I never agreed that the Quad from Stratton was a good idea. I've told that to Jeff with a G many times. But here we are.

WRONG: In the entire history of the race, since the 2008-09 season, that happened exactly once, and only once, after the January 6, 2018 race, during the polar vortex, when a Magic employee told me that he would remove the remaining course markings the following day. The only complaint about any remaining course markings was from someone on a TGR forum thread, NOT from Magic -- had Magic ever informed me about any remaining course markings, then I would have driven up the following day and removed them. Everything was removed immediately after each race on January 5, 2019 and December 14 & 15, 2019.

NOTE TO EVERYONE ELSE:
Given that this guy is making up totally wrong excuses for Magic on this issue, let your imagine run wild on what else he's making up on issues that matter far more.

Side Note: Please explain what you mean by "clown show" besides some course markings still on the hill after the January 6, 2018 race? And please explain how some lingering surveyor tape and/or mountaineering-style wands f'ed up the mtn? And please explain how if this was such a bad situation, why nobody at Magic ever contacted me about this? (Even setting aside how they somehow need my special expertise at something that is about an hour-long task.)

P.S. If you're just joking, then okay, I fell for it, ya got me!

As someone that volunteers their time to try to make the place better, I'm one of the people that ends up picking up trash that people leave all over the mountain...I guess you've never heard the phrase, "Leave no trace." You say it was only 1 year, I say it was 2. We agree to disagree.

It did occur to me that MNIAW is willing to explain away all this other shit but wants to crucify JS for the time his race left some flags on Red Line (oh noozzz!!!). Really kind of ironic that he'll accept any and all explanations for year after year of management failures but wants to hold JS to account for that incident.



I mean, there's a clown show fucking things up, but that year with the rando race isn't what immediately comes to mind in that context.

And your experience in managing a ski area is??? Other than talking to somebody (I assume it's Bluebird) what gives you any authority or expertise to question the way they are running the place? Do you know the state laws and regulations they have to comply with? Do you have an insider's view of the money situation? A really wise man once told me that unless you have done a specific job, do not think that you have the expertise or the right to critique how somebody else does that job. I have issues with how much real estate the Alpine Club takes up at Magic, especially when the terrain is limited. I don't post it on an internet forum (but now I have). I've mentioned it quietly to Jeff with a G and he told me why he makes those decisions. That's good enough for me.

And I'm not trying to explain things away, just trying to add some insider's information to the wild speculation that is out there. Am I defensive? Yeah, more than a little because I want this place to work...the skiing is just too good for it not to.

By the way, day 28 at Sunapee was spectacular this morning. 2" of real snow fell after they groomed last night and it felt like real skiing again.

[ticketchecker]

it felt like real skiing again.

old man, tell us another story about real skiing again. please

[2nd mate]

old man, tell us another story about real skiing again. please

I loved that one too. We will go with the indy pass, pats peak, tomorrow probably since whole family has it. wife doesn’t have epic. Although Friday sunapee and saturday pats peak might work better for crowds.

[Aldo]

i
very sad, especially with my having made 100% of this season's turns there, thanks to their impressive snowmakingp effort. condolences to all impacted...

a

Damn, I knew those spring turns looked familiar, lower ex! WE will definitely make some jiminy turns this year, that's my old stomping ground.

[danmelon]

Wow did not expect this at Alta of Quebec today.



Was just gonna take a walk and check on conditions. Too bad I showed up at 2pm. Apparently it snowed.

[cat in january]

Those are in *F, wonder what kind of pixie dust falls at those temperatures

[Vt-Freeheel]

That looks like fun. ^^

edit; I was referring to the Melon snow but I guess it could be a sarcastic comment on the Cats post. A twofer

[Dexter Rutecki]

I'm really not interested in going down the extremely long road (not taken) that has led to where Magic is now, and for reasons that are probably obvious I've generally kept my mouth shut (in public) about what goes on at that place, but I can say without any reservations (or equivocation, for that matter) that many of the problems Magic has had over recent years (since Barker) are due directly to mismanagement. At a certain point I think anyone who looks at the fact pattern has to admit that they have had a hand in creating all this bad luck. But since you took the time to write all this out, I'll respond since I think the original point made by me and some others still stands.

Do you think Magic wanted to defer that maintenance to December? All you armchair QBs seem to think you can just wave your hand and things will happen. It was a chain of events outside of their control that led to the timing.

This isn't true--it isn't true that it was a chain of events outside of their control that led to problems (for years!) with the 'new' black chair, and it isn't true with the Red Chair either. The fact that the mountain purchased the Black lift from Stratton with literally no plan on how it would be installed (it sat in the parking lot for half a year before they even bothered to survey) was not out of their control, nor was it out of their control that they started the haul rope replacement so late on Red (yes, I'm aware of the problems with receiving the new rope, but it goes back further than that).

If you think I'm just a shill for the mountain, that's your perogative.

I won't say you're just a shill, but I think you accept what Geoff says uncritically, and I think you are close to him and unable to judge his actions dispassionately the way you would if he were just some other mountain's CEO.

If I don't know you, I can't either value or not value your opinion, so it's just words to me. Dex, I know you a little and we should have beers to resolve this.

I'm up for BLT beers any time (unfortunately I'm not really at Magic these days, but I'm supposed to be back for the Tali race, so I'll probably see you then). But I honestly don't look at this as something you and I need to resolve--we're looking at this differently, and I'm not sure in the near term we'll be on the same page, but I'm OK with that. No ill will on my end, for sure.

As to the snowmaking coverage, it's hard to argue that it hasn't gotten better since the most recent group took over. In 2016 the coverage was under 25% so they've doubled their coverage.

Except that, similar to the lift situation, every single year there are major problems. Again, I've heard ALL the excuses and understand why the system has failed so often (from compressors to bad welds to electrical issues, I'm aware of all the previous and ongoing issues). But at a certain point I just think you can't give them a pass for what they were left with--IMO at this point it's on them, and they should accept that the buck now stops firmly with current management.

Everybody also seems to forget (or maybe doesn't know) that when the Fairbank Group decided to shutter Magic, they cut holes in most of the snowmaking pipes to ensure Magic could never again compete with their resort down the street. All these things cost money and there is no money tree on Glebe Mountain so they have to do things a little at a time. To be honest, I never agreed that the Quad from Stratton was a good idea. I've told that to Jeff with a G many times. But here we are.

See, to me regardless of what happened 30 years ago when the mountain was first shuttered it's just not acceptable to point to that as a current reason or explanation. There are things done over the past several years (or things not done) that are much more relevant.

As someone that volunteers their time to try to make the place better, I'm one of the people that ends up picking up trash that people leave all over the mountain...I guess you've never heard the phrase, "Leave no trace." You say it was only 1 year, I say it was 2. We agree to disagree.

I'll leave this for JS if he wants, but I vividly remember the day all those flags were still there, and even at the time I just didn't see it as that big a deal. I even remember that there was so confusion over whose responsibility it should have been, but I don't disbelieve JS's version that Magic told him they'd take care of the trash.

And your experience in managing a ski area is??? Other than talking to somebody (I assume it's Bluebird) what gives you any authority or expertise to question the way they are running the place? Do you know the state laws and regulations they have to comply with? Do you have an insider's view of the money situation?

Not Bluebird in this case, and of course I'm not an expert on VT ski area regs--but the guy I talk most of the time to has run multiple ski areas (profitably) in different states. I'll defer to his assessment, especially over that of the current management (management which as of 2016 had the same experience in running an area that I have). I'm not going to name the guy, but he's very familiar with Magic and its management.

A really wise man once told me that unless you have done a specific job, do not think that you have the expertise or the right to critique how somebody else does that job.

I think that wise man is not very smart--by his logic only former presidents can criticize Biden? You're not allowed to critique what Citibank does because you've never been CEO of a major financial institution? That's absurd logic.

I have issues with how much real estate the Alpine Club takes up at Magic, especially when the terrain is limited. I don't post it on an internet forum (but now I have). I've mentioned it quietly to Jeff with a G and he told me why he makes those decisions. That's good enough for me.

As far as kids who really want to ski race goes, Magic might as well not have an Alpine Club given the severe limitations put on it (generally they get half of Show Off, which is almost not even worth doing for their older racers). Except on race days I've almost never seen the Alpine Club have any real impact on how general public can ski the mountain, yet they're routinely kept from having hill space (for reasons that no one could ever explain). This is why the Alpine Club at best will never be more than a feeder program for Stratton. IMO if you support Magic and skiing you should be pushing the management to give real support to the club, rather than just the lip service it has received since JS stopped running the show.

And I'm not trying to explain things away, just trying to add some insider's information to the wild speculation that is out there. Am I defensive? Yeah, more than a little because I want this place to work...the skiing is just too good for it not to.

I want it to work as well, and bit my tongue for years, but wishing the problems away is not a solution. There are reasons for why the mountain runs the way it does.

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Fair points all. Different perspectives.

BTW, they did not buy that lift from Stratton so the decision to take it without a plan to install it still seems like the right one. Another fact is that they've spent so much on the installation, they're getting close to the point where it would have made more sense to buy a new one. In hindsight, Geoff knows that now. But you're right, his resume was a little thin on the ski area management side (OK, razor thin). But to say that doubling the snowmaking in the last 4 years is not a laudable accomplishment is going too far. I like JS but he never had the capital to make the improvements. If nothing else, GH has been successful at that. On the Alpine Club, there is no way Magic will ever have a program that can rival the larger, well-funded mountains. So maybe it should just be a feeder? I don't know because my only experience with managing such a thing was bashing gates in the 70s.

[buckethead]

Damn, I knew those spring turns looked familiar, lower ex! WE will definitely make some jiminy turns this year, that's my old stomping ground.

absolutely!

with so many of my usual destinations hardly at the starting gate, i've never appreciated my closest area more.

and love the 10pm last chair!

^^ wow dan, that looks legit!

[T-dub]

It's actually Fetzer Mountain Services. That just might be the issue.

Well done sir

[Bluebird]

nd your experience in managing a ski area is??? Other than talking to somebody (I assume it's Bluebird) what gives you any authority or expertise to question the way they are running the place?

I have nothing to do with this conversation and certainly don't talk about Magic management with the exception of with the crew down there from time to time.

Please let it snow soon.....

[Bottleman]

Three not so wise men contemplating the shit fuck conditions at the Mighty, Mighty yesterday. “Turns” were made and fun was still had, even with my poor turn initiation skills an an inability to counter, counter, reverse rotate while contending with non- releasable pole straps and improper edge bevel. Not sure how I can even get out of bed on my own, actually.


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[m2711c]

Pretty sure you should have been dolphining somewhere in that sequence.

[savemeasammy]

I suspect that you are able to overcome all of that because of the orange bindings. I’ve done some research. Please look for my forthcoming video on the subject.


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[Peruvian]

I believe I have found video footage of the Magic management argument?