Salomon Shift w/ Salomon QST 106 181

[nconzey]

Hey there . Curious to hear people’s thoughts on This combo with a medium weight touring boot for 50/50 resort and touring. I am worried this set up might feel too heavy and would really appreciate any thoughts people have . Thanks!


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[tgapp]

Hey there . Curious to hear people’s thoughts on This combo with a medium weight touring boot for 50/50 resort and touring. I am worried this set up might feel too heavy and would really appreciate any thoughts people have . Thanks!


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I had this exact setup. I thought it was great for resort days and quick side country missions, but terrible for general touring. I'd call it an 85/15 resort/touring setup. Far too heavy to actually tour with.

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[Beder]

I have this set-up…it’s the bright orange qst from a few years ago. It isn’t light. It handles challenging snow pretty well. I keep it mostly for short hikes in the spring.

[Flippo]

Hey there . Curious to hear people’s thoughts on This combo with a medium weight touring boot for 50/50 resort and touring. I am worried this set up might feel too heavy and would really appreciate any thoughts people have . Thanks!


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Look at the French ski blog “bonappétit” on YouTube. It has been their main setup for years for up to 1000m of d+.

[nconzey]

I had this exact setup. I thought it was great for resort days and quick side country missions, but terrible for general touring. I'd call it an 85/15 resort/touring setup. Far too heavy to actually tour with.

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Thank you that’s extremely helpful - do you have any true recommendations for a true 50/50 resort touring set up. Seems like shifts would be the right binding for this , no?


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[Lord Thomas]

The answer to your question requires you answer a few questions for yourself like: what kind of terrain inbounds and touring, how fit are you - what are you able to schlep up the hill, what kind of boots are you planning on using, how long are the tours you're planning, how much moneez you want to spend, etc. etc...The equation is a little different for each of us. I started touring with a pretty resort capable setup, thinking I was all about the down. I learned very quickly that for my fat old ass that there is NO down if there isn't up first. At the same time there were younger and more fit guys passing me in the backcountry on setups that were at least as heavy as mine. I'd say go for the shift/qst setup and give it a try. If nothing else you will have a sweet inbounds and rope ducking setup and will know in short order if you need dedicated bc gear.

[tgapp]

Thank you that’s extremely helpful - do you have any true recommendations for a true 50/50 resort touring set up. Seems like shifts would be the right binding for this , no?


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Tectons are, without a doubt. Tectons tour so much better, they're easier to use, lighter, and they ski just as well.

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[PeachesNCream]

Assuming you're newer to touring, I think this is a fine setup. It's a little on the heavy side for touring but it'll be fine and great for sidecountry and ride the resort well. If you find you really like touring, you'll want to get a separate setup anyways. You could go with tectons instead of shifts as others have mentioned to save some weight.

[Backward_Banana]

Unless its a travel ski and you know what you're getting yourself into (i.e: willing to ski calmer inbounds / risk tib-fib, or willing to walk uphill shorter distances or w/ heavier gear) I think the 50/50 category is a misnomer and always skews towards resort bias.

If you really see yourself touring 50% of the time and skiing in the resort 50% of the time, find two used setups, one for touring and one for the resort. Despite what you'll read on the internet, even an old pair of dynafits is going to tour a lot better than the crossover bindings, and skis great.

[nconzey]

The answer to your question requires you answer a few questions for yourself like: what kind of terrain inbounds and touring, how fit are you - what are you able to schlep up the hill, what kind of boots are you planning on using, how long are the tours you're planning, how much moneez you want to spend, etc. etc...The equation is a little different for each of us. I started touring with a pretty resort capable setup, thinking I was all about the down. I learned very quickly that for my fat old ass that there is NO down if there isn't up first. At the same time there were younger and more fit guys passing me in the backcountry on setups that were at least as heavy as mine. I'd say go for the shift/qst setup and give it a try. If nothing else you will have a sweet inbounds and rope ducking setup and will know in short order if you need dedicated bc gear.

This is super helpful thanks. I am pretty fit and bigger guy 6’2 190. Haven’t picked out a boot yet but certainly open to recommendations! I think I would put my priority on resort skiing but I guess I wonder . With a set up like this - is a longer tour out of the question? Longer being 2/3 hours of skinning


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[nconzey]

Tectons are, without a doubt. Tectons tour so much better, they're easier to use, lighter, and they ski just as well.

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Will check them out


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[nconzey]

Assuming you're newer to touring, I think this is a fine setup. It's a little on the heavy side for touring but it'll be fine and great for sidecountry and ride the resort well. If you find you really like touring, you'll want to get a separate setup anyways. You could go with tectons instead of shifts as others have mentioned to save some weight.

Very new to touring . That’s really helpful. Do you think this set up is so heavy it puts a 3 hour tour out of the question?


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[PeachesNCream]

Very new to touring . That’s really helpful. Do you think this set up is so heavy it puts a 3 hour tour out of the question?


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Not at all. Just depends on your fitness level and what you're willing to tolerate. I'm a similar size to you, 6'3, 200lbs, relatively fit and did relatively big tours (full day, 5k elevation, 20 miles) on a very similar setup to what you're describing and had a great time. I ended up really liking touring and now have tour and resort specific setups but that comes with time. Also what will your friends be touring on? I'd get something similar to what they have.

I think 1800g ski + Tecton/shift/duke PT is a great starter touring setup for someone who skis well at the resort and is looking to do some backcountry. It'll ski the resort really well and do well enough in the backcountry (just a little more work). So the QST is a little heavy but you can save some weight going with a Tecton.

[Benneke10]

The older QST 106s are lighter but the new ones are around 2100g. 1800g skis are definitely worth looking at, like the Armada Tracer 108, Elan Ripstick 106, Volkl Blaze 106 and 4Frnt Raven

[Dee Hubbs]

2022 Green/Orange = 2080g (181cm)
2021 Green = 2080g (181cm)
2020 Green = 2080g (181cm)
2019 Burgundy = 1840g (181cm)
2018 Orange = 1900g (181cm)

[Reformed]

As others have said, appropriate tools for the task at hand is the best option. Beyond that, figure out where you are most willing to compromise and select skis, boots and bindings accordingly. I would personally rather schlep more weight on occasional/short tours than ski light/fragile/expensive gear everyday that I skied the resort. This would be especially true if I was skiing a resort that didn't get many powder days/wasn't pretty soft most of the time. I think the most difficult choice in these scenarios is bindings. I don't think Shifts are anywhere near the holy grail that they are sometimes presented as and there's no way I would want to have Tectons on a ski that I was intending to ski the resort half the time on. Tectons ski great and have proven to be fairly reliable, but they're still nowhere near as damp/durable/easy to deal with as a dedicated alpine binding. If you shop around/buy used stuff you could definitely get alpine and touring set ups that will serve their intended purpose better than any 50/50 set up. Spend your money on boots.

[kid-kapow]

Spend your money on boots.

Solid advice for sure. The easiest way to ruin both a day in resorts and especially out touring is to have ill fitting boots. There are tons of good crossover boots though - like Atomic Hawx XTDs, Lange XT3s or the nex Technica Cochise. These are boots that skis downhill very well, yet are more than good enough to tour with to do big days out touring, even if they are a fair bit heavier than the more dedicated, light weight touring boots.

As for skis - a 1800-1900gr ski will be a good contender for a ski that does well in both resorts and out touring - that is heavy enough to still ski variable decently, but not that heavy that they'll ruin you on the way up (especially with tech bindings). It will still ski awesomely with tech bindings, yet be very capable in resorts with alpine bindings. And no, I would advice against getting an even lighter ski and putting a Shift or heavier binding on it - it will defeat the purpose as your heavier boots/bindings will overpower the skis, which will be good for cruising untracked pow, but mediocre everywhere else. So I def think that you are aiming at the right type of ski (provided you were looking at the lighter, older QST106s).

As for bindings - the obvious contenders are Shifts, Marker Duke PT, Fritschi Tectons og Cast-ified Look Pivots.

All of the aforementioned bindings are on the more expensive side though, so a fifth option could be to get some cheap tech bindings in the 300-350gr range (for instance Salomon MTNs or some such) and a pair of cheaper alpine bindings, and have a shop mount inserts in your choice of ski for both bindings. That way you could have the same ski and boots for both applications, but switch bindings for whatever you are doing that day. Yes, there is a bit of fiddle factor with this option, but it is def the best of both worlds at a discount imho. I would personally run Fritschi Tectons and be happy, but I am a way smaller dude than you - so a two binding setup could be better for you at your stature. You'll get a hang of adjusting the bindings really quickly - it is not rocket science.

[Benneke10]

Solid advice for sure. The easiest way to ruin both a day in resorts and especially out touring is to have ill fitting boots. There are tons of good crossover boots though - like Atomic Hawx XTDs, Lange XT3s or the nex Technica Cochise. These are boots that skis downhill very well, yet are more than good enough to tour with to do big days out touring, even if they are a fair bit heavier than the more dedicated, light weight touring boots.

As for skis - a 1800-1900gr ski will be a good contender for a ski that does well in both resorts and out touring - that is heavy enough to still ski variable decently, but not that heavy that they'll ruin you on the way up (especially with tech bindings). It will still ski awesomely with tech bindings, yet be very capable in resorts with alpine bindings. And no, I would advice against getting an even lighter ski and putting a Shift or heavier binding on it - it will defeat the purpose as your heavier boots/bindings will overpower the skis, which will be good for cruising untracked pow, but mediocre everywhere else. So I def think that you are aiming at the right type of ski (provided you were looking at the lighter, older QST106s).

As for bindings - the obvious contenders are Shifts, Marker Duke PT, Fritschi Tectons og Cast-ified Look Pivots.

All of the aforementioned bindings are on the more expensive side though, so a fifth option could be to get some cheap tech bindings in the 300-350gr range (for instance Salomon MTNs or some such) and a pair of cheaper alpine bindings, and have a shop mount inserts in your choice of ski for both bindings. That way you could have the same ski and boots for both applications, but switch bindings for whatever you are doing that day. Yes, there is a bit of fiddle factor with this option, but it is def the best of both worlds at a discount imho. I would personally run Fritschi Tectons and be happy, but I am a way smaller dude than you - so a two binding setup could be better for you at your stature. You'll get a hang of adjusting the bindings really quickly - it is not rocket science.

This is great advice. 50/50 boots like the Atomic Hawx XTD and 1700-1800g skis are so fun to use inbounds and out of bounds with almost no sacrifice in performance either way. Unfortunately 50/50 bindings aren't there yet, but it costs the same or less to use quiver killer inserts with 2 sets of bindings. Spend $300 on a tech binding, $130 on an alpine binding and you're paying less than a Shift for way way better performance and all you're sacrificing is a few minutes of screwing to switch between modes, which over time will be less frustrating than dealing with the Shift or Duke PT every time you transition in the backcountry

[galibier_numero_un]

Daily swaps (with inserts) are good in theory but ...

As stated many times before (everyone is different in this regard), the common wisdom is that swapping bindings on a daily basis is a royal pain.

The worst binder to swap is an old school Dynafit Comfort/Vertical with brakes, 'coz you have to loosen the big heel screw which means reestablshing your lateral release setting every time you remount it.

Fortunately, the newer generations of tech bindings don't suffer this inconvenience.

Everyone however thinks they'll be OK with daily swaps until they have to do it.

Inserts are great for occasional swaps - things like moving a binding from an early season pair of rock skis to some Spring skis. Another good application is for compactness for air travel - spooning two pairs of skis, and packing your binders in carry on (for example).

@xxx-er's two used pair concept is both cost-effective an more functional.

Of course, none of this addresses the ski you want a side country option for. For me (fortunately) I'm easy on gear, and Vipecs serve this application well. I'd get Tectons if I were doing it today.

... Thom

[kid-kapow]

yeah, to be fair - I've never gone down this route myself having a more than bloated quiver. I would also more likely than not just go with Vipecs/Tectons or Castified Pivots ( a bit of a sufferfest for long days out), but then again I am more of a resort kinda guy and hate the tech toe harshness (like absolutely hate).

Mounting (installing really) most alpine bindings and tech bindings like the MTN is dead easy though provided the holes/inserts are already there, so the swapping over would actually not be much of factor for me - getting the inserts mounted would be (having never done that before). Then again I am an ex snowboarder and am very used to swapping bindings between boards, so it might be less of an issue for me than others - dunno.

but yeah, it is for sure one of those know thyself moments. If you have no mechanical inclination and the thought of working on your skis seems like a hurdle, do not go down this route. You'll just end up either not swapping, doing something wrong (that will lead to) and/or loose faith in the equipment, at which point you won't use it.

Shifts are plenty good enough if you want somthing that is realtively close to a set and kinda forget type setups that works well enough in both scenarios, as long as you understand how to keep them adjusted properly.

[galibier_numero_un]

yeah, to be fair - I've never gone down this route myself having a more than bloated quiver. I would also more likely than not just go with Vipecs/Tectons or Castified Pivots ( a bit of a sufferfest for long days out), but then again I am more of a resort kinda guy and hate the tech toe harshness (like absolutely hate).

Mounting (installing really) most alpine bindings and tech bindings like the MTN is dead easy though provided the holes/inserts are already there, so the swapping over would actually not be much of factor for me - getting the inserts mounted would be (having never done that before). Then again I am an ex snowboarder and am very used to swapping bindings between boards, so it might be less of an issue for me than others - dunno.

but yeah, it is for sure one of those know thyself moments. If you have no mechanical inclination and the thought of working on your skis seems like a hurdle, do not go down this route. You'll just end up either not swapping, doing something wrong (that will lead to) and/or loose faith in the equipment, at which point you won't use it.

Shifts are plenty good enough if you want somthing that is realtively close to a set and kinda forget type setups that works well enough in both scenarios, as long as you understand how to keep them adjusted properly.

Me? I'd also go Vipec/Tecton or CAST.

Buddies of mine have had great success with Shifts. Maybe they're mechanically adept, or maybe they got good samples, but the rash of problems reported seem to be statistically out of line. Perhaps they're that much more popular, and the numbers are so large, that the reported failures are in line with other bindings, but just looking at their complexity does little to inspire confidence.

Warren Buffet once said that he doesn't invest in a company whose business model he doesn't understand. All of the moving parts in the Shift give me the creeps, and the plastic release window replacement (with the dimples) for touring mode seems like a field fix to me. No thanks.

With snowboard bindings (correct me if I'm wrong - they're foreign to me), you just screw 'em in, and go. There's no messing with BSL, release values, alignment, etc.

With respect to alignment, there's always a bit of fiddle factor involved with tech toes and the heel fixture dropping into the pins cleanly. The better you get at mounting tech binders (either with or without inserts), the less of an issue it becomes, but it's still worth paying attention to.

I'd count on 15-20 minutes for doing a swap, and while this sounds trivial, it becomes a chore. Yeah, there are those who say they can do it in 5 minutes and maybe they're not as OCD as I am (or maybe they're more mechanically adept, and they don't triple-check everything). We're talking bones and ligaments, so a bit of extra attention ain't a bad thing :-)

... Thom

[nconzey]

Thank you all for the responses here! How do people feel about this set up with the 2020 QST 99 - 181 ? 1700 gram ski and maybe better for all around touring as I will be on the east coast 50% of my skiing ! Thanks very much!


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[kid-kapow]

Buddies of mine have had great success with Shifts. Maybe they're mechanically adept, or maybe they got good samples, but the rash of problems reported seem to be statistically out of line. Perhaps they're that much more popular, and the numbers are so large, that the reported failures are in line with other bindings, but just looking at their complexity does little to inspire confidence.

They have sold a shit ton of these things and the failure rate is not high from what I gather.

Sure, people moan and moan and moan and moan and moan and moan (and moan some more) about them on here, but more often than not the issues seem to be either one offs, design particularities that only massive use by a large sample can truly identify (this is a first gen product) or down to a combination of user error and somewhat finicky/sensitivity to correct settings.

While anecdotal, I still have north of 150 days across multiple pairs and have not have a single issue that was not caused by my own ineptitude - forgetting to adjust DIN, AFD slippage that could easily have been discovered with a 5sec pre use check and so on, and I think they ski well - I def like their lower weight with their solid skiability - yet my relationship with the binding has been severely compromised / destroyed due to the Shift thread. From my perspective - Shifts are probably the most successfully launched product in the skiing world in forever. Perfect no, but remarkably successful across a swath of considerations. Perhaps I have just been lucky across the 4-8 pairs I've used (tiny sample I know).

As for the "field fix" - name one single product that was perfection in its first iteration, let alone that said product introduced an entirely novel segment(?). I am cannot think of one, perhaps others can.

As for mounting snowboard binders vs tech bindings in inserts - the difference is negliable once you've figured out the settings and established a procedure. Again, I've never gone down this route myself, but the procedure is hardly rocket science type material for all but the most mechanically inept. And yes, it takes a bit of effort - but beggars can't be choosers, not everything will be perfect in a setup that is meant to cover everything, so the insert route has its set of compromises that may or may not be worth it to any given skier. Know thyself and all that.

[Tailwind]

Good thoughts from a lot of people. My tweak would be to think 1-2 years down the road and what pieces of gear can you buy now that’ll still be what you want as you slowly pickup more gear.

Some people go the route of buying a ski that they are not excited about for the resort but they also don’t really want to tour on either. (The 50-50 compromise conundrum). IE a ski that’s lighter than you want for the resort and also to heavy to be a great touring setup.

I would buy a pair of resort skis you’ll be happy using for a few years and put some shifts on there. Not a great touring binding… but way way better than frame bindings and I toured for years on frame bindings.

Then save up some money for a dedicated touring setup and if the shift bothers you sell those and Mount some alpine bindings. You could just sell everything and buy two setups when you’re ready… but I think for most people the path I laid out is the quickest way to two (good) dedicated setups.

[galibier_numero_un]

They have sold a shit ton of these things and the failure rate is not high from what I gather.

Sure, people moan and moan and moan and moan and moan and moan (and moan some more) about them on here, but more often than not the issues seem to be either one offs, design particularities that only massive use by a large sample can truly identify (this is a first gen product) or down to a combination of user error and somewhat finicky/sensitivity to correct settings.

While anecdotal, I still have north of 150 days across multiple pairs and have not have a single issue that was not caused by my own ineptitude - forgetting to adjust DIN, AFD slippage that could easily have been discovered with a 5sec pre use check and so on, and I think they ski well - I def like their lower weight with their solid skiability - yet my relationship with the binding has been severely compromised / destroyed due to the Shift thread. From my perspective - Shifts are probably the most successfully launched product in the skiing world in forever. Perfect no, but remarkably successful across a swath of considerations. Perhaps I have just been lucky across the 4-8 pairs I've used (tiny sample I know).

As for the "field fix" - name one single product that was perfection in its first iteration, let alone that said product introduced an entirely novel segment(?). I am cannot think of one, perhaps others can.

As for mounting snowboard binders vs tech bindings in inserts - the difference is negliable once you've figured out the settings and established a procedure. Again, I've never gone down this route myself, but the procedure is hardly rocket science type material for all but the most mechanically inept. And yes, it takes a bit of effort - but beggars can't be choosers, not everything will be perfect in a setup that is meant to cover everything, so the insert route has its set of compromises that may or may not be worth it to any given skier. Know thyself and all that.

Probably best left for the Shift thread, but regarding the "field fix" ... sorry, but it's been what ...three model years and no Shift v2.0 to address all of its quirks? That's a bit too much for my sensibilities. If I understand the "window fix", it depends on small plastic nubs, and I can't believe they will wear well over time, so yeah ... a field fix that has yet to be addressed in a v2.0.

I tell my buddies that if they're happy with their Shifts, to hang on to them, 'coz there may be a QA and QC issue, leading to quite a few bad samples being released into the wild. IOW, there are no guarantees they'll be happy with their next pair.

Everything we read on the Shift thread as far as reported problems seems to fall into three categories: (1) people haven't read Lee's setup tips on Newschoolers, (2) individuals who have considerable credibility (and "known" mechanical skills) on this forum, and (3) the clueless.

It's #2 that makes me shy away, but I'd be the last one to say that if something works for you, to steer you away.

Good thoughts from a lot of people. My tweak would be to think 1-2 years down the road and what pieces of gear can you buy now that’ll still be what you want as you slowly pickup more gear.

Some people go the route of buying a ski that they are not excited about for the resort but they also don’t really want to tour on either. (The 50-50 compromise conundrum). IE a ski that’s lighter than you want for the resort and also to heavy to be a great touring setup.

I would buy a pair of resort skis you’ll be happy using for a few years and put some shifts on there. Not a great touring binding… but way way better than frame bindings and I toured for years on frame bindings.

Then save up some money for a dedicated touring setup and if the shift bothers you sell those and Mount some alpine bindings. You could just sell everything and buy two setups when you’re ready… but I think for most people the path I laid out is the quickest way to two (good) dedicated setups.

^^^ Good strategy ^^^

And yup, if Shifts float your boat then go for it, but don't discount Tectons and CAST from consideration ;-)

... Thom