The TGR Skinny Ski Ski Tourers' Refuge Thread

[CirqueScaler]

Also, I skied Movement Alp Tracks 89 for the first time last night. A little preliminary, but probably my favorite ski I've skied! Preliminary review:

Skied the 169 cm, black + metallic silver colorway (pic above). I am 5'8" and 150 lbs. F1 LT. Intermediate-advanced skier, self-taught. Skiing 4" of fluff on top of a soft, dense base, 10* - 35* trees. Pretty good snow, but definitely had the opportunity to ski bad snow and go over tracks as well. I mounted +1 because of hole conflicts.

- Very easy to ski. I've been having a ton of fun on my Voile Hyperchargers and the characterization that has been developing in my mind is "point and shoot." I go where I want to go with the turn shape that I want to use. Same with the Alp Tracks, and I'm pretty sure even better! The phrase in my mind last night was "you think and you're there." Not sure how to express this, but all of the things I try to do to be a good skier: staying centered; flicking my weight side to side over the ski; keeping my feet closer together in soft snow; keeping my hands in front and not overrotating... it was just a lot easier to do all of those things last night than I've ever felt before.

- Not just damp for the weight but oddly smooth for the weight. I have Aski Stealths, which I would consider "damp for the weight" (certainly damper than the other race ski I've skied, which was the red/white Hagan X-Race). For those skis, they are damp, but they are still light skis. Impacts feel deadened - like the first time I rode 25mm road bike tires at 100 psi vs. 23mm tires at 120 psi - but the tips still skate around because they don't have mass. On hard, chopped, icy groomer, I've tried to compensate for this by getting forward on the ski, which the Askis can take, but it still skates around. Intimidating at speed. I felt the same with the Backland 78 non-UL... skiing chop was just really difficult because you'd get bucked around so much.

The Alp Tracks are NOT that way. I skied over tracked powder, snowmobile tracks, and exit luge, and on all of those surfaces, the Alp Tracks surprised me by how non-jittery they were. There was a point at which I got into some heinous West-facing, frozen, semi-breakable crust. On some skis, I would feel like I'm clinging to my edge and my balance for dear life, and while it wasn't fun on the AT89, it didn't feel "dangerous" in the same way.

- Very large sweet spot and easy to stay balanced. I think I'm a decent skier, but I know I'm not the best. Not a ski racer! Self taught! I could control these skis easily when backseat (something I appreciate in the hyperchargers), and it was easy to get back to center.

- Great energy out of the turns and really quick edge-to-edge.

- Makes a variety of turn shapes. On different laps, I both put down wiggles and opened it up to arc down the slope. We weren't skiing anything too steep, and I'm not making a freeride video anytime soon, but I did not feel like the 17m radius held me back, and the ski was damp and smooth enough to withstand the speed.

- One deficiency I've noticed in my hyperchargers is that at times I'll hit something with the tips and the front will just buckle. I'm not sure if it's a problem with the ski or if I'm somehow blowing through my boot, but I'll get thrown off balance and pushed forward. Usually fine - I'll get back on top of the ski - but it's a little disconcerting. In places where I would have expected that to happen on my hyperchargers, it did not happen on the AT 89.

- All of this added up to: very confidence inspiring! I felt so comfortable on the ski within just a few turns. There was one point on my third run when I got bucked a little and was midair, but I felt totally serene when off-balance and was somehow confident that I could bring my balance back to center... and I did without trouble.

[NorCalNomad]

No one else that I'm aware of makes a stretchy power strap except Atomic. There was a recent Blister podcast with onenerdykid and he said Booster had some kind of patent that just expired, so Atomic is just now releasing their stretchy strap, but its super bulky and not appropriate for touring.

These are what you want, not stretchy but really nice, thin material with a cam strap https://skimo.co/dynafit-power-straps

Bit of a thread dig but @NFFlow Scarpa makes a Velcro stretch strap and I have one on my first gen Atomic Backlands and makes the boots feel WAY better. I'm honestly not too sold on static cam straps as it feels like the small tail on the webbing isn't enough purchase to really get proper tightness.

I need to dig around at work and see if there is any burly elastic around and make an elastic strap with a cam that has a good pull tab at the end of the static webbing.

[NWFlow]

Thanks! I'm going to maybe try just trimming some old boosters as well.

We'll see

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Stretchy power strap:

https://www.voile.com/voile-straps-2...xl-series.html

Recommended.

[sweatypowderpig]

anyone have any firsthand experience with the voile objectives?
looking to build a light setup for bigger spring days and volcanos.

[timmaio]

Hmmm, that's interesting. I was just going off the pics on the ATK website and could only discern the rolling u-spring vs. a non-rolling u-spring. Do you have any pics of the SL Lightweight? I just have the bog standard Helio 110s.

Here is a pic that shows the spring being milled to a thinner profile
https://www.skimo.co/image/data/atk/...nding-back.jpg

The old springs https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...arts/k08-1w-2/
And the new Rolling In springs. https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...ing-in-system/

[CirqueScaler]

Here is a pic that shows the spring being milled to a thinner profile
https://www.skimo.co/image/data/atk/...nding-back.jpg

The old springs https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...arts/k08-1w-2/
And the new Rolling In springs. https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...ing-in-system/

Ah I see what you mean. The new Trofeos have that milling, at least for the 8. Thanks!

[NorCalNomad]

look what they did to these boiz (rocca freebirds)

[TeleBeaver]

anyone have any firsthand experience with the voile objectives?
looking to build a light setup for bigger spring days and volcanos.

I had some. 171cm @5'11" 175lbs. They are very light, and hold up well. Like any voile they rock in soft snow. I was blown away how well they skied a foot of powder at 82mm underfoot and nearly 20cm shorter than my inbounds skis. They also held their own for icy fitness skins at the resort before it opened. They hooked up and I felt confident in them at speeds. I never had them in any wild spring snow, even though that was why I got them (didn't get out much spring of 2020). I also decided skiing pow was more my thing than mountaineering, so I traded them for another pair of powder skis. I feel like there are better dedicated firm snow skis (the objectives have a ton of tip rocker for their width), but they are versatile, lightweight sticks that should be on any weight weenie's radar.

[margotron]

look what they did to these boiz (rocca freebirds)

ho-lee-fck

[sweatypowderpig]

I had some. 171cm @5'11" 175lbs. They are very light, and hold up well. Like any voile they rock in soft snow. I was blown away how well they skied a foot of powder at 82mm underfoot and nearly 20cm shorter than my inbounds skis. They also held their own for icy fitness skins at the resort before it opened. They hooked up and I felt confident in them at speeds. I never had them in any wild spring snow, even though that was why I got them (didn't get out much spring of 2020). I also decided skiing pow was more my thing than mountaineering, so I traded them for another pair of powder skis. I feel like there are better dedicated firm snow skis (the objectives have a ton of tip rocker for their width), but they are versatile, lightweight sticks that should be on any weight weenie's radar.

thanks for the info. what would be at the top of your list for firm snow? 0G 85?
always trade-offs but i'll probably pull the trigger on the objectives since they just sound plain ol fun.

[CirqueScaler]

The 0g 85 and the Voile Objective are really on the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of type of skier and snow that they fit. Voile Objective are better than the competition as an easy-skiing ski in soft snow. The 0g 85 are better if you want a demanding (but burly) ski in hard snow. They're not good in soft snow or if you're not an excellent skier.

If you're more on the easy-skiing side, I would check out the Backland 78/85 UL. Moving towards burly, maybe the Alp Tracks 85 or one of the Blacklight skis.

[kamtron]

I bet the Objectives would be a great volcano ski for the more "standard" lines. If you are looking into getting into the more extreme volcano lines, something with better edge grip for when the corn is more frozen than not might be good. But I haven't ridden the objective. I personally like more of a 95 mm waist for PNW volcanoes since we often get a mixed-bag of snow (ice, corn, mank), but 85 is also a totally fine size.

[NorCalNomad]

I bet the Objectives would be a great volcano ski for the more "standard" lines. If you are looking into getting into the more extreme volcano lines, something with better edge grip for when the corn is more frozen than not might be good. But I haven't ridden the objective. I personally like more of a 95 mm waist for PNW volcanoes since we often get a mixed-bag of snow (ice, corn, mank), but 85 is also a totally fine size.

I once broke a ski before a skimo race and had to demo some skis. First gen ZG95's was the lightest the local shop had. I was blown away with how light vs how damp they felt on the inbounds and chunked up saturated pow downhill sections we had to do. If I didn't already have 86 G3 Findrs that would be my non race firm snow/ spring/ big mission ski. Makes me wonder if the ZG85 would be as good, but I've never been on them

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I once broke a ski before a skimo race and had to demo some skis. First gen ZG95's was the lightest the local shop had. I was blown away with how light vs how damp they felt on the inbounds and chunked up saturated pow downhill sections we had to do. If I didn't already have 86 G3 Findrs that would be my non race firm snow/ spring/ big mission ski. Makes me wonder if the ZG85 would be as good, but I've never been on them

The original 85's feel a good bit more locked in than the original 95's. The 95's are much more versatile skis and give up almost nothing on hard snow. I think that shape and flex just works better in a wider package. Haven't skied the new ones.

[BFD]

I bet the Objectives would be a great volcano ski for the more "standard" lines. If you are looking into getting into the more extreme volcano lines, something with better edge grip for when the corn is more frozen than not might be good. But I haven't ridden the objective. I personally like more of a 95 mm waist for PNW volcanoes since we often get a mixed-bag of snow (ice, corn, mank), but 85 is also a totally fine size.

My son was wanting to pick up the Objective BC for PNW long volcano tours. He bought Wasatch Speed Projects instead. Skied Adams SW chutes earlier this season with them. They could not handle the rime and started separating. I noticed he is back on the ZG85 now.

[tgapp]

My son was wanting to pick up the Objective BC for PNW long volcano tours. He bought Wasatch Speed Projects instead. Skied Adams SW chutes earlier this season with them. They could not handle the rime and started separating. I noticed he is back on the ZG85 now.

Skiing Adams on race skis seems like an adventure.

One time I skied King's Peak with a ski trab race ski.

Never again. Never again.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[NorCalNomad]

Yeah was going to say after breaking race skis just mucking about at a local area I don't think I'd trust them for a big mission. But I'm sure the uphill was awesome

[Jonathan S.]

I've skied the SW Chutes in the spring on race skis.
Winter rime, no way!
As for durability, I've been organizing skimo races out here since the 2008-09 season. Skiing conditions range from easy groomers to trails in such rough shape that they not only should be closed yet are closed (gotta love a local hill that allows you to do that) to a backcountry venue that would not be considered in by any typical standards.
Descent speeds in the latter two categories range from excessively cautious to downright alarming.
Carnage over the years:
- Race ski that broke on its inaugural outing when the shovel got buried in a mogul.
- Lightweight ski hit a thinly covered stump.
That might be it. One of our racers broke an older race ski in a different series during a night race in a mogul field. Another of our racers broke a new race ski at a Western race, uncertain how, but he's broken three other skis outside of races. One of our racers at another race series broke a Fischer Verticalp, but that comes with an explicit disclaimer that the ski is not to be used for ... skiing.
I'm not saying that race skis are as durable as other touring skis. But I would be worried about the ski breaking from bouncing around on rime in the SW Chutes. (I would be worried though about me bouncing around on rime in the SW Chutes because of race skis!)

[CaliBrit]

This seems like a good place to ask this question. Can anyone give me some feedback on the contour mohair skin performance vs the mix? Choosing between the two with the hybrid glue.

Pomoca mohair and mix seem to have similar glide by their own numbers, but a lot of people seem to infer the contour mix doesn’t glide very well and I was wondering if the pure mohair was a little better?

[Benneke10]

Skins I have used a lot: BD Glidelite, Pomoca Climb 2.0 (yellow), Contour pure mohair, Contour hybrid. All the skins have pretty similar grip/glide performance but I will try to rank them

Glide (best to worst): Climb 2.0, Glidelite, contour pure, contour hybrid
Grip (best to worst): contour hybrid, contour pure, Glidelite, Climb 2.0

I will say that Pomoca's don't glide as well and grip better out of the box, but they have some kind of coating that wears off, making them more glidey. I would choose either Contour over the other skins any day, love the hybrid and glide is good enough. It is strange that Contour's pure mohair has more grip and less glide than other companies mix skins.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

glide is good enough.

I wonder if this is skewed by where you live/ski. For me the glide advantage of Pomocas (2.0 and Pro S-Glide) over BD's is considerable.

[Benneke10]

I should add: the Glidelites I have were acquired in well-used condition. Maybe they are broken in, and new ones grip more and glide worse. We are lucky here in the Wasatch to not have many flat approaches, but we do have steep icy tracks where grip is an advantage

Also there is not a significant weight/glide/grip difference between contour pure and mix. I prefer pure, but you do gain noticeable grip and sacrifice not that much glide with the mix.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

We are lucky here in the Wasatch to not have many flat approaches, but we do have steep icy tracks where grip is an advantage

Yeah, that's what i meant.

[NorCalNomad]

... One of our racers at another race series broke a Fischer Verticalp, but that comes with an explicit disclaimer that the ski is not to be used for ... skiing...

LOL funny cause it's true. Never seen more "looking for a single ski because I broke the other" ads than from Fischer skimo skis.

As for skins,

I've used (in the mohair/ mix): BD Mix, Trab Mix, BD pure mohair (the old no print grey ones), Trab Mohair, and Trab WC

In basically that order of ascending glide, although the BD mohair skins are just heavier. The WC formula though has noticeable more glide than any of those, it amazing. Why so much Trab skins you might ask? Cheapest by the roll on skimo :P And I would hope everyone in here waxes their skins because it's the best cheap tip for skins for getting free uphill performance.

We are lucky here in the Wasatch to not have many flat approaches, but we do have steep icy tracks where grip is an advantage

I've heard that the too steep of a skintrack problem is real in the Wasatch.