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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
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    Wasatch
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    The TGR Skinny Ski Ski Tourers' Refuge Thread

    There exists a fast & light ski touring community on TGR, but right now it's limited to the shadows. In PMs and niche sub-threads (1kg boot thread, 300g binding thread, ATK binding thread), we sidle up to talk lightweight gear, teasing out each other's commitments with subtle references to certain European ski manufacturers and links to a certain Salt Lake City ski touring shop. But we are never too overt, fearful that the TGR Brahma Bros and Long Ski Lovers will flame us for suggesting that OP ski something narrower than 95 underfoot and with fewer than two sheets of metal.

    That ends today with the TGR Skinny Ski Ski Tourers' Refuge Thread!! If your ski bases have never had a whiff of American nylon plush; if your powder skis are 105mm; if you laugh in Boa whenever you see a 4-buckle boot in the parking lot; if "race ski" means skimo instead of GS... this thread is for you.*

    Hopefully this can be a place to talk with some likeminded people about fast and light ski touring. Let's not take ourselves too seriously, even if we do record our lift-assisted days on Strava because "I mean, I was still out... and resort days still work the legs just as much as a short tour, bro." But let's keep it on-topic as one of the only places on TGR to talk exclusively about lightweight touring gear and the attendant ~~lifestyle~~.

    We can also use this thread to buy and sell gear because, let's be honest, those new-old-stock Movement Fish-X you've hoarded in the garage for the past three years aren't going to be fairly valued in Gear Swap -- if you dare to post them.

    *obviously this is all a bit tongue in cheek there are no rules, but I think many of us would appreciate a place to talk about gear with others who have a fast & light mentality.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
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    Wasatch
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    I'll start! Quiver pic for 2021-2022:

    Aski Stealth with Trab Vario.1 - my race and lightweight ski under 80mm. I'm hoping to use this for spring missions too because I'd prefer to keep the quiver to just three touring skis.
    Ski Trab Maximo with Trab Vario.2 - my daily driver. 90mm wide, 171cm long. I'm hoping that this ski will fit perfectly for me because it is: slightly wider, slightly damper, and slightly cheaper than the more prolific trab skis. Got it on CCBC closeout for a steal last year.
    Voile Hypercharger with ATK Trofeo - my powder ski. Apparently the most charge-y ski in the Voile line, so I'm hoping it will be a great balance that can ski low angle trees and arc big open faces in 5%.

    All with F1 LT.

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    Whatchu guys got?
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
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    4,488
    A picture might be worth a thousand words, but ...
    ... a spreadsheet is worth a thousand pictures!
    Well, maybe not, but link is HERE.
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
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    SLC
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    994
    Have you completed your profile on the Skimo Co website?

    Are you on a first-name basis with Mike Hagen?

    Do your hardshell pants collect dust in your closet 360+ days per year?

    Have you re-threaded your broken Alien RS cable with frozen fingers on an icy ridgeline?

    Do you have a preferred method of attaching a water bottle to your pack's shoulder strap?

    Have you ex-communicated ski partners who take their skis off to transition?

    Does your kitchen scale mostly get used for weighing gear?

    If you answered yes to any of these, this thread is for you!!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Tahoe-ish
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    I'm in.

    But let's be clear: lift serve should not be Strava-ed. All of those perfectly straight lines are painful to look at.
    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
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    SLC
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    994
    Quote Originally Posted by climberevan View Post
    I'm in.

    But let's be clear: lift serve should not be Strava-ed. All of those perfectly straight lines are painful to look at.
    Agreed. If you must track, have the decency to make the activity private.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    7
    Ok, I'm in however, I have a fast and light mentality but my body has a slow and light ability.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fairhaven
    Posts
    107
    Quote Originally Posted by Benneke10 View Post
    Have you completed your profile on the Skimo Co website?

    Are you on a first-name basis with Mike Hagen?

    Do your hardshell pants collect dust in your closet 360+ days per year?

    Have you re-threaded your broken Alien RS cable with frozen fingers on an icy ridgeline?

    Do you have a preferred method of attaching a water bottle to your pack's shoulder strap?

    Have you ex-communicated ski partners who take their skis off to transition?

    Does your kitchen scale mostly get used for weighing gear?

    If you answered yes to any of these, this thread is for you!!
    It's a good thing you asked if "any of the above" applied instead of "all of the above"!
    I didn't own a kitchen scale until I wanted to weigh climbing gear and that's still the only thing it gets used for.
    I have emailed Mike Hagen a few times in the last month.
    I prefer to prehydrate and keep my bottle in my pack or a soft flask in a pocket.
    I've ditched ski partners that can't transition faster than me when I'm on my split!
    But I still wear hardshells for most of my days out. I actually toured more in a goretex jacket last year than ever before!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason4 View Post
    I've ditched ski partners that can't transition faster than me when I'm on my split!
    A sub 150 second top transition should be a requirement for this refuge. I seriously wonder WTF people are doing that takes 15 minutes to start back down the hill. I'm not dressed for standing around, m-fers!
    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Dystopia
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    Quote Originally Posted by climberevan View Post
    A sub 150 second top transition should be a requirement for this refuge. I seriously wonder WTF people are doing that takes 15 minutes to start back down the hill. I'm not dressed for standing around, m-fers!
    How can you do a safety meeting in 150 seconds?
    ďIím a subhuman jizz monkeyĒ

    Thx mods. Itís an awesome signature.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    PRB
    Posts
    27,156
    dammit, all I did was look at this thread briefly -- to determine that it didn't apply to me -- and now "skimo gear swap and forum" is a suggested facebook group!
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "I'd eat a bag of Dicks and wash it down with a Coke any day." - iceman

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    mammoth lakes, ca
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    113
    Quote Originally Posted by Benneke10 View Post
    Have you completed your profile on the Skimo Co website?
    Do you have a preferred method of attaching a water bottle to your pack's shoulder strap?
    for real though. the insulated bike bottle on on the shoulder strap might look dorky as hell, but its clearly the way.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wenatchee
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    10,774
    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post
    How can you do a safety meeting in 150 seconds?
    Edibles at the trailhead and at the lunch stop. No time for burning.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Alta
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    Quote Originally Posted by climberevan View Post
    I'm in.

    But let's be clear: lift serve should not be Strava-ed. All of those perfectly straight lines are painful to look at.
    Just stopped in to say that strava on the skin track is the absolute lamest thing one can do on skis. Carry on and have fun in the mountains.


    Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
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    4,488
    Quote Originally Posted by Benneke10 View Post
    If you answered yes to any of these, this thread is for you!!
    Oooh, I like these q's -- let's see how I fare:

    "Have you completed your profile on the Skimo Co website?"
    YES!
    (One of our many sponsors, as shown here on our new custom race suit: https://nerandorace.blogspot.com/p/l...ce-outfit.html ... to be available soon on the Hagan website.)

    "Are you on a first-name basis with Mike Hagen?"
    YES!
    (I've even stayed at his place before the Breck 5 Peaks race, I visited him there this summer, we skied Glacier Peak together, and he sends many shipments of race gear to me each year to mount for our racers.)

    "Do your hardshell pants collect dust in your closet 360+ days per year?"
    YES!
    (As do my softshell pants on almost as many days, since I ski almost exclusively in race lycra.)

    "Have you re-threaded your broken Alien RS cable with frozen fingers on an icy ridgeline?"
    TRICK QUESTION: those boots are far too heavy!
    (But I have field-repaired a broken attachment rivet for a Pierre Gignoux race boot instep buckle.)

    "Do you have a preferred method of attaching a water bottle to your pack's shoulder strap?"
    So many different ways for so many of my different ultralight packs.

    "Have you ex-communicated ski partners who take their skis off to transition?"
    I still talk with them, but I no longer tour with them.

    "Does your kitchen scale mostly get used for weighing gear?"
    I keep my kitchen scale in my gear room. I'm not sure if it's even been used a single time for normal kitchen purposes.
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    uTardedland
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    11,547
    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    Edibles at the trailhead and at the lunch stop. No time for burning.
    Buzz says this thread officially sucks

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,877
    I just got my Movement 3tech alpi helmet yesterday, can't believe I paid full retail but it seems pretty nice. Also has no gap with my julbo aerospace reactiv goggles.
    "High risers are for people with fused ankles, jongs and dudes who are too fat to see their dick or touch their toes.
    Prove me wrong."
    -I've seen black diamonds!

    throughpolarizedeyes.com

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Wasatch
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    318
    Quote Originally Posted by bean View Post
    I just got my Movement 3tech alpi helmet yesterday, can't believe I paid full retail but it seems pretty nice. Also has no gap with my julbo aerospace reactiv goggles.
    I have this helmet. I also paid full retail If you're a size large, skimoco have a like new helmet for $90, missing the rear padding. The rear padding is important, but you could easily make your own in 10 minutes.

    I put mine on at the car and take it off at the car, everyday. I thought it was worth paying full price just to feel a lot better about skiing and being safe at all times.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maine Coast
    Posts
    3,526
    Anyone know with skimo races requiring brakes after this year, will the market be flooded with light bindings or is there a light aftermarket brake racers are likely to opt for?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    994
    You can buy this thing and re-use existing holes: https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...race-ski-brake

    Or these if you want adjustability: https://www.blackdiamondequipment.co...ake-kit-86-mm/

    Those would cover ATK and Trab bindings and the Plum 170 might fit. Maybe we will see the market flood with Dynafit and Plum race bindings, or they will come up with their own solutions. I doubt most US races will be enforcing the brake requirement.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
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    SLC
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    994
    Trab makes their own brake too https://skimo.co/ski-trab-brakes

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maine Coast
    Posts
    3,526
    Not this year for sure, but next ?…

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Evergreen Co
    Posts
    656
    Alright… good question for this page. I bought my first “fairly light” setup last year. K2 wayback 88’s in 181cm, mtns with no brakes and some Scarpa Alien RS boots. I liked the setup quite a bit and liked cranking out laps. I’m used to heavy gear for most skiing and have Hoji Free with wrap liners and Deathwish tours for short tours. What I ran into was that I loved the Aliens going uphill and in consistent snow conditions but I struggled badly in variable snow.

    I skied Moran in early May. It was a bit melted out and we left from string lake so we had a lot of bushwhacking / bullshit to deal with. I was thrilled with how fast I felt on the flats / up but skiing down in “mashed potatoes” snow and through some slide debris felt challenging! I tend to do big open turns and found that anything beyond short turns I’d be folding the boot over (I’m 160lbs). I took two annoying falls on the down where was surprised by the way the gear responded and kinda got tossed. I felt like the boot was folding and my heel was looser than normal (not held down vertically) which gave me some fits.

    It’s made me question how’d I’d feel skiing this setup on a harder line. All in all Moran isn’t hard skiing and I’m worried about pushing things more on this setup and getting into a bad situation.

    My questions have been:
    * Is this just how light gear skis and I need to learn to adjust to slow speed hop turns in bad snow?
    * I have a low volume foot and the shell fit on my aliens is tight (length) and I’ve added some strategic foam. Do I need to buy a heavier boot that has more traditional buckles I can clamp down? I struggle with the alien closure + boa giving enough tension. I run wrap liners in all of my other boots and crank them pretty tight.
    * would I be better off getting a shorter and narrower ski to pair with the aliens?
    * is there something else I’m missing? Maybe I just suck a skiing.

    Car to Car including breaks and summit time in 10 hours which I couldn’t have touched on my other gear! So I’m stoked on that part.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,877
    The Alien RS just didn't work for me, my feet fit them great but no matter how tight I cranked the cord down (including with stoppers to keep it from pulling through) I couldn't get the slop out of the boots and any sort of inconsistent snow was a fight. The F1LT on the other hand, mostly the same shell but with real buckles, skis great and I can control them much better.

    It also might be partially the skis, I have 85s, 95s, and 107s that I ski with the F1LT depending on conditions and the objective for the day, skiing mashed potatoes in light skinny skis is not going to be easy no matter what boots you're in.

    I also have some on3ps with tectons and hawx xtds if it's a shorter day or I want to guarantee solid control on the downs.

    tl;dr it's tradeoffs all the way down
    "High risers are for people with fused ankles, jongs and dudes who are too fat to see their dick or touch their toes.
    Prove me wrong."
    -I've seen black diamonds!

    throughpolarizedeyes.com

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Evergreen Co
    Posts
    656
    Good insights on the RS. Iíve been meaning to try in the F1 LT, TLT 8 and Backland Carbon to see how
    those compare. I also agree that there will always be limits on the light skis / boots in bad snow. Iíve really pulled hard on close lever on the Aliens and it still just isnít tight enough to hold my foot in place. Hard to know if that just goes with the territory or if itís something that can be improved.

    Your experience seems to indicate that there improvements to be had.

    Quote Originally Posted by bean View Post
    The Alien RS just didn't work for me, my feet fit them great but no matter how tight I cranked the cord down (including with stoppers to keep it from pulling through) I couldn't get the slop out of the boots and any sort of inconsistent snow was a fight. The F1LT on the other hand, mostly the same shell but with real buckles, skis great and I can control them much better.

    It also might be partially the skis, I have 85s, 95s, and 107s that I ski with the F1LT depending on conditions and the objective for the day, skiing mashed potatoes in light skinny skis is not going to be easy no matter what boots you're in.

    I also have some on3ps with tectons and hawx xtds if it's a shorter day or I want to guarantee solid control on the downs.

    tl;dr it's tradeoffs all the way down

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