The TGR Skinny Ski Ski Tourers' Refuge Thread

[wilcox510]

https://skimo.co/mammut-alugator-lig...iABEgKdrvD_BwE

[Jonathan S.]

For the gram counters out there, do you have any recommendations for avy shovels that aren’t super heavy, but have a telescope handle and of course metal? I need to upgrade mine.


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https://skimo.co/black-diamond-transfer-lt-shovel

[abcdethan]

Thanks! Both look like solid options


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[Tjaardbreeuwer]

I have both the Alugator light in and Transfer Lt in my house.

I just got the Trasfer Lt this fall, not used it much yet.

Alugator light has been pretty good. Once, with repeated drills, the push button came out of alignment with the hole in the shaft, but afaik all shovels have that set up, so could happen with any shovel.

Transfer has a better grip: it is wider and offset from the shaft, so your fingers can curl inside it part way, even with mittens.
Transfer connection between shaft segments and blade is a bit more rattelly, not as tight.
Alugator has push button for shaft>blade on only one side, so if you put it in upside down, it won’t latch.
Transfer has an asymmetric grip and shaft, so you won’t likely try and put it in upside down, and if you do try, it won’t go in.
I think I might like the angular shaft of the transfer better, but not sure yet.
Transfer has a slightly bigger blade.
Transfer seems very lightly built but I did read a review from someone who dug their truck out when it was quite stuck, and it held up to that.

And off course, most importantly for this thread: it is lighter.

So all in all, I give the nod to the Transfer: many small improvements, and no drawbacks that I can think of.

[SB]

https://www.outdoorplay.com/collections/shovels

[CirqueScaler]

Is skin grip always inversely correlated to glide? Has a particular brand pushed out the efficient frontier the furthest?

[Marshal Olson]

Is skin grip always inversely correlated to glide? Has a particular brand pushed out the efficient frontier the furthest?

I am definitely not an expert here, so posting this as one guys experience, eager to be corrected by those with deeper knowledgge.

I have found the Colltex 100% mohair and Contour Race the fastest glide. Trab off the roll from Skimo was, as far as I could tell, the same material as the Contour Races I had previously. I have not used the Pomoca PDG, but I would rate their Green mohair skins behind the Colltext/Contour stuff in terms of glide.

From my experience with 100% mohair, its generally speaking length of the hair. Shorter hair = faster glide/grip trade off. Slightly longer hair (ie Pomoca green) = a little better grip on super packed tracks w/ less glide.

Very interested to hear other's opinion and corrections!

[abcdethan]

I’m looking for a firm snow/spring/volcano ski to replace my MTN 95 Explore that feels like it lost its camber after 3 years. I want it to be burly enough to handle steep windboard and variable conditions. Ideally 95 waist. I was looking at the MTN 96 and Atomic Backland 95


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[Jonathan S.]

Is skin grip always inversely correlated to glide? Has a particular brand pushed out the efficient frontier the furthest?

Given that some skins can have both worse grip and worse grip, I'd say the answer to that is no.
However, exactly which model is the best is so hard to test, and also dependent on the weighting criteria.

I suspect though that most of us for winter touring are erring on the side of more grip at the expense of worse glide: if on a powder tour, you have to struggle a bit more on, say, 5% of the terrain, but in return you get better glide for the remaining 95%, then that would seem to be a worthwhile tradeoff.
Perhaps I should test this by trimming back some of my momix skins! Or even switch to pure mohair, but of course that comes with a durability hit eventually.

I am definitely not an expert here, so posting this as one guys experience, eager to be corrected by those with deeper knowledgge.

I have found the Colltex 100% mohair and Contour Race the fastest glide. Trab off the roll from Skimo was, as far as I could tell, the same material as the Contour Races I had previously. I have not used the Pomoca PDG, but I would rate their Green mohair skins behind the Colltext/Contour stuff in terms of glide.

From my experience with 100% mohair, its generally speaking length of the hair. Shorter hair = faster glide/grip trade off. Slightly longer hair (ie Pomoca green) = a little better grip on super packed tracks w/ less glide.

Very interested to hear other's opinion and corrections!

I love this:
https://skimo.co/ski-trab-race-roll
... but I thought it was identical to Colltex?
Having also used some Contour race skins, I sure thought it was different than that.

[CaliBrit]

Not exactly relevant but this seems the right audience to address that obsesses about weight etc.

For best downhill performance would you rather have a longer ski with a lighter construction or a shorter ski with a heavier construction. With the weight of the two roughly matching.

I’ve previously leaned to longer and lighter build but I’m wondering as to the value of shorter with a little heavier build.

Thoughts appreciated.

[Marshal Olson]

I love this:
https://skimo.co/ski-trab-race-roll
... but I thought it was identical to Colltex?
Having also used some Contour race skins, I sure thought it was different than that.

Aha, makes sense, thanks for pointing out / clarifying. This is the Trab roll I have used and seemed to be the same as the Contour material: https://skimo.co/ski-trab-mohair-skins

[Benneke10]

Not exactly relevant but this seems the right audience to address that obsesses about weight etc.

For best downhill performance would you rather have a longer ski with a lighter construction or a shorter ski with a heavier construction. With the weight of the two roughly matching.

I’ve previously leaned to longer and lighter build but I’m wondering as to the value of shorter with a little heavier build.

Thoughts appreciated.

As a mediocre skier I've gone both routes and prefer the shorter/heavier ski in the majority of circumstances. In my case this ski is the 173cm Dynafit Beast 108 which I have used quite a bit. The only times I wanted a longer ski was in very very deep snow and on big corn faces where I was pushing 50mph. Short skis are also really nice to skin with especially in bushy terrain.

[Benneke10]

Aha, makes sense, thanks for pointing out / clarifying. This is the Trab roll I have used and seemed to be the same as the Contour material: https://skimo.co/ski-trab-mohair-skins

The Trab skins are the same as the Contour Guide skins, which I really like. The skins that are marketed as "race" are slightly thinner and somewhat different from the Trab Mohair/ Contour Guide skins.

[riff]

Short/heavy for me usually.

Easier to skin with, easier to ski congested terrain or congested vegetation. kinda self limiting in terms of top speed which is not a thing I’m testing on tours. (no medical team on call)


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[Karl_H]

Not exactly relevant but this seems the right audience to address that obsesses about weight etc.

For best downhill performance would you rather have a longer ski with a lighter construction or a shorter ski with a heavier construction. With the weight of the two roughly matching.

I’ve previously leaned to longer and lighter build but I’m wondering as to the value of shorter with a little heavier build.

Thoughts appreciated.

I think you also need to account for stiffness. Heavier skis are not always stiffer. In general, I think skis that are shorter, heavier, and stiffer are better for hard pack. Skis that are longer and softer are better for soft snow. For mixed conditions: stiff, heavy, and long.

[Shred Baron]

Not exactly relevant but this seems the right audience to address that obsesses about weight etc.

For best downhill performance would you rather have a longer ski with a lighter construction or a shorter ski with a heavier construction. With the weight of the two roughly matching.

I’ve previously leaned to longer and lighter build but I’m wondering as to the value of shorter with a little heavier build.

Thoughts appreciated.

Come on, shorter and lighter.


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[kamtron]

I think heavier skis generally ski better in all conditions, but the benefit is minimal in really nice powder. Weight helps with dampening different snow densities, funky bumps, etc. But fully agree about soft, long skis being better for pow and stiff skis helping in hard snow. I don't like too short a ski in any snow, it makes me feel like I'm going over the bars sometimes.

[Benneke10]

Has anyone gotten time in the new Dynafit TLT X or Blacklight boots?

[Boissal]

As a mediocre skier I've gone both routes and prefer the shorter/heavier ski in the majority of circumstances. In my case this ski is the 173cm Dynafit Beast 108 which I have used quite a bit. The only times I wanted a longer ski was in very very deep snow and on big corn faces where I was pushing 50mph. Short skis are also really nice to skin with especially in bushy terrain.

Mediocre skier pushing 50mph on corn? You're selling yourself short bud...

Short skis with heft >> long skis without unless you're in perfect pow. You can deal with the short size using fore-aft balance. You can't deal with the chatter of a light ski which shows up instantly if you push it and the snow isn't ideal.

[CaliBrit]

Mediocre skier pushing 50mph on corn? You're selling yourself short bud...

Short skis with heft >> long skis without unless you're in perfect pow. You can deal with the short size using fore-aft balance. You can't deal with the chatter of a light ski which shows up instantly if you push it and the snow isn't ideal.

Yeah I think I’m going to lose 7-8cm and go with a ski that would have been 100g heavier at the same length.

[TeleBeaver]

I'm thinking of getting a mid 170s 85-95mm ski for spring skiing this year. Will be mounting meidjo tele binders to them, and am wondering if anyone knows of a decently durable and heavier spring touring ski that will hold up to tele and be a bit more stable in variable snow. I'm easy on my gear typically but I have trouble believing a sub 1300g ski will be strong enough or even ski that well. I ski 180 praxis BCs at 1700g so looking for something a fair bit lighter than that but not crazy.

[Tailwind]

Anyone have time on Trab Magico's? I have some Wayback 88's but I've only owned the WayBack's and Zero G 85's for lightweight skis. The Waybacks are "fine" but not inspiring. They're not super light... but they also struggle when I try to press them hard. I'm wondering if the Trab would be lighter with only small downhill concessions.

It seems like Skimoco feels like they're kinda incredible.

I feel like a safer choice for me would be something like a Kastle TX 93 but I'm curious about the Trabs.

[dub_xion]

if on a powder tour, you have to struggle a bit more on, say, 5% of the terrain, but in return you get better glide for the remaining 95%, then that would seem to be a worthwhile tradeoff.

That 5% can put a big damper on your day, however.




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[Climber Joe]

I have been very pleased with my Fischer scale skins on slush and corn type tours, but they work alright on soft stuff too. Super glide on slop and firm spring conditions, with enough grip for my normal skin/boot pack type couloir hunting spring stuff.

[Climber Joe]

I’ve got a set of TLT 8 carbonio boots and I’m having trouble liking the liner. I don’t wanna buy a different liner quite yet, I’ve added foam around the ankle and I’m liking that work, but I want a firmer/thicker tongue. Can anyone recommend a material/mod method to accomplish that? Like maybe even swapping the tongue out with a different boot? Gluing a plastic piece to the top of the tongue? Not sure what will work best.