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Thread: The Great Resignation ‘21
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10-18-2021, 07:45 PM #151Registered User
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There are plenty of people who would love to move to the U.S. and work most of these low paying thankless jobs.
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10-18-2021, 08:16 PM #152
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10-18-2021, 08:20 PM #153
And the New York Times article: https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/10/n...attendant.html
“The best argument in favour of a 90% tax rate on the rich is a five-minute chat with the average rich person.”
- Winston Churchill, paraphrased.
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10-18-2021, 08:36 PM #154
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10-18-2021, 09:05 PM #155Registered User
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Oh, I fully believe that employers should bear the costs -- be it through direct subsidies, increased wages, or taxes. It's just that I don't expect it to ever happen at a scale that makes a sizeable impact on the lives of the vast majority of families through direct subsidies or wages.
To be fair though -- we're all the beneficiaries of early childhood education. The economic return on investment is more efficient than most any other mechanism of social welfare. https://heckmanequation.org/
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10-18-2021, 09:12 PM #156
It's not such an outlandish idea to just take care of your own kids till they're five years old.
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10-18-2021, 09:39 PM #157
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10-18-2021, 09:49 PM #158
Also, in a fast moving tech world, 5 years out of the job force is enough to barely be relevant.
Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident
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10-18-2021, 09:49 PM #159
I get that, but when people tout the benefits of publicly funded daycare/preschool, they seem to overlook the benefits of being cared for by your actual parents. And I'm not judging, we had 2 kids in daycare at one point.
But apparently a lot of people are making the choice to care for their little ones these days instead of work, as has been made clear in this thread. Somehow they are affording to do so. Maybe still living off stimulus checks, I dunno. And the $300/kid/month the fed is currently doling out as some sort of tax credit to combat child poverty. Somehow they are making it work, or so it seems.
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10-18-2021, 09:53 PM #160
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10-18-2021, 09:56 PM #161
Baristas need pre-care, too.
Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident
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10-18-2021, 10:00 PM #162
Even if a parent has the time and money to take care of their kid full time until they are 5, the kid would benefit from some kind of early childhood education program, even if it is only part time (building social and emotional skills). So the idea of government funded early education isn't only about allowing the parent to work.
Also, how many parents who are staying home taking care of their kids are actually spending 100% of their time focused on the kid, and not just parking them in front of the TV while they take care of shit around the house.
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10-18-2021, 10:00 PM #163
Almost every other western democracy disagrees.
I’ve heard a lot of economists say one of the biggest things we could do to increase productivity and benefit poor children is to have the state provide childcare and early childhood education.
California is about to test this out for pre-k starting soon.
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10-18-2021, 10:06 PM #164
Yeah, ask people who took a few years off to care for kids how easy it was to jump back in to the professional world.
And as altasnob says, early childhood education programs offer great benefits beyond just letting the parents work. While a kid is not better off in 45 hours of day care a week from 3 months of age, that kid is better off with at least some ECE program. And while mom and dad are no doubt the most important people in a baby/toddler/preschooler's upbringing, our society totally undervalues the benefits a professional caregiver can bring. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing with the kiddo, I muddled my way through it, reading what I could about childhood development and whatnot. But the teachers at my kid's school (and yes, the good ones are "teachers" even for the infants)? Holy shit were they good. And seriously underpaid for what they brought to the table."fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
"She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
"everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy
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10-18-2021, 10:10 PM #165Rope->Dope
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10-18-2021, 10:15 PM #166
Basically saying most parents are idiots and the State needs to take over as soon as possible for the sake of the kid and "productivity." Seems weird but okay, if it works elsewhere then let's try it.
Unless they're teenagers, which is something that doesn't get much play in this discussion but could be a factor. "In 1979, nearly 60% of American teenagers were employed, an all-time high. Today, just over one-third, or 35%, of teens between the ages of 16 and 19 are part of the workforce."
^And that was in 2019 so likely even less now...probably a lot less, with covid.
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10-18-2021, 10:20 PM #167
What if they are teens with no parental support? Sounds like they would need it even more.
Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident
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10-18-2021, 10:31 PM #168
I have a salient memory of the other side of this: During the 2008/2009 recession I had just ended my fire career and had applied to over 500 jobs, Places were getting thousands of applicants for any open job. I got one interview out of those hundreds of applications, busted my ass doing testing, jumping through hoops and they told me to keep whatever job I currently had because they didn’t have much work and all the jobs were one day at a time and that I may have to travel up to a few hundred miles away at my own expense.
Meanwhile, I traveled back to Saginaw Michigan for a funeral. The people working at restaurants, the front desk at the hotel, etc…they were so squared-away, smart people, working hard. I remember realizing that was because things were so desperate and ugly that these were way overqualified people hanging onto any income they could find.
So…I dunno, it seems like the normal state we got used to had some components of desperation and grim struggle driving it all, and as frustrating as it is when there isn’t enough staff in a restaurant, I think I prefer this to when they could pick from 300 applicants and get a fry cook with a masters degree in electrical engineering or some shit.
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10-18-2021, 10:47 PM #169
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10-18-2021, 11:10 PM #170
As someone who has family in early childhood education, it irritates me to no end that people do not see early childhood education workers as teachers. Of course, some "daycare centers" are just "we will keep your kid alive centers". But anyone who has sent their kid to a really good ECE facility knows what I am talking about. My kid is so much better off for having gone to her preschool, even if I had the financial ability to take off those 5 years I could not have done as good a job as those professionals did.
"fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
"She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
"everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy
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10-19-2021, 05:40 AM #171
Some people aren't wired for it though. I love my kids, but they're better people because of the excellent ECE programs they went through and the socialization they got. Also, no way we could afford the better school district on a single income.
As far as other points:
1. Individual vs broad subsidies/programs - making subsidies paid by businesses with parents of young children doesn't work as small businesses will discriminate against them like crazy.
2. Teens in the workforce - first, no one wants to hire them because weird hours and additional protections, while for kids you don't get into the best schools by working, but through sports, charity work and other extracurriculars.
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10-19-2021, 05:58 AM #172
That 6 months of Paternity leave and 8 weeks of paid (non sick leave) vacation would go a long way towards the parental-child bonding gaps..
Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!
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10-19-2021, 06:43 AM #173
I must be of the last generation to grow up like this, but I didn’t have day care, my mom just brought me to all these older ladies’ houses in the neighborhood when I was little, and paid college and neighborhood kids to watch me when I was a little older.
I think people don’t really do that anymore, and it’s maybe a shame. I had a real potpourri of different households and stuff from that process. I drive through town and just remember some houses: that house had a comfortable basement with couches and stuff, that one had a big fish tank, that one was a huge mess with clothes and toys everywhere….etc.
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10-19-2021, 07:14 AM #174Registered User
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colorado voted on a family leave bill last year and it actually passed
it was played out by many as socialism and it is going to cost business owners and the economy too much people are going to abuse the system and the gov't will not be able to manage it property
at least it past, a great step in the right direction, sure it will cost me money
it's messed up how demonized "welfare" has gotten
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10-19-2021, 07:30 AM #175
What are you basing these statements on? Around here businesses are begging teens to work after school, evenings, weekends, whatever. They can get hired immediately. I also think having a job and showing leadership/initiative can help a lot when applying to colleges. My oldest is going through that process right now and her experiences working (with kids, actually) are a big focus of her essays, letters of recommendation, etc. She has a lot of extracurriculars and sports on her resume, but work is where she matured and learned the most IMO.
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