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  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    Also, this.

    I know plenty of people who work their asses off for $15/hour and have been doing it for decades. They frequently lack the skillset to do things that pay better, whether that stems from lack of innate abilities or poor upbringing or something else, I have no idea. They want and need more.

    Turns out the people with the skillset to do things that pay better are also better able to design systems that provide outsized rewards for themselves. Doesn’t matter if it’s the chicken or the egg, it is. And this “gonna get mine” winning at the expense of you losing mentality drives a lot of that.
    It's essentially the "I can get this homeowner to pay me $5,000 for the new roof I'm paying $750 materials for and a couple immigrants another $1,000 (maybe even a lot less) to nail together. Sure, add in some insurance and other COGS but at the basic level that's the deal.. The small businessperson pays huge taxes (if they report the accounting properly).. The massive mega state contractor pays hardly any taxes..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    It's essentially the "I can get this homeowner to pay me $5,000 for the new roof I'm paying $750 materials for and a couple immigrants another $1,000 (maybe even a lot less) to nail together. Sure, add in some insurance and other COGS but at the basic level that's the deal.. The small businessperson pays huge taxes (if they report the accounting properly).. The massive mega state contractor pays hardly any taxes..
    you not making sense come on
    I guess I'm a small business and guess what I don't pay shit in taxes it's amazing really anyone can structure any business to take advantage of tax laws it's brilliant
    don't get me wrong I send the irs 6-10k a month but when you look at the big photo I don't pay dick

    and guess what 80% of the labor on anything from roofing to home construction to remodels doesn't have medical or wc ins. usually they carry a dog shit liability policy

    back to the great resignation
    I've never delt with so many snowflake pussies in my life people are so soft these days it's pathetic

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    you not making sense come on
    I guess I'm a small business and guess what I don't pay shit in taxes it's amazing really anyone can structure any business to take advantage of tax laws it's brilliant
    don't get me wrong I send the irs 6-10k a month but when you look at the big photo I don't pay dick

    and guess what 80% of the labor on anything from roofing to home construction to remodels doesn't have medical or wc ins. usually they carry a dog shit liability policy

    back to the great resignation
    I've never delt with so many snowflake pussies in my life people are so soft these days it's pathetic
    I bet you paid more than Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    I bet you paid more than Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos
    Bet he pays less in spousal support.
    https://nypost.com/article/most-expe...%20to%20Forbes.

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    I've never delt with so many snowflake pussies in my life people are so soft these days it's pathetic
    I bet you're a big Lee Marvin fan.
    As a Gen Xer carpenter in my 20's I sure walked off a few jobs when some old fart was asking me to do something I didn't want to do. Cut out a window in this 50 year old basement concrete, gfys, climb up on a 10/12 roof with no sissy sticks during a winter storm, kiss my dick. The kids of the 70's and 80's are probably the last to look up to blue collar jobs. I can't imagine growing up now when there are so many ways to hustle online for work why anyone would want to pick up a shovel or hammer.

  6. #606
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    The Great Resignation ‘21

    …
    "If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough."

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    And how is Thincover's business doing these days, now that you mention the sacrifice made?
    He’s doing very well. Living the dream. Seems like he mountain bikes or skis more days than not and somehow has a family and a career 🤷.

  8. #608
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    Upper income folks that still think it is a meritocracy really are a big part of the problem. Between wage stagnation, cost up higher education and healthcare among other things, its just hard for the less fortunate to get ahead. Opportunity is just not as wide spread as it was before.

    All the white folks want to do is keep on keepin' on thinking everybody else is the problem. What is your house cleaner got paid $40/hr.? What if you were facing BK because you can't afford health care and you got cancer? What if your kids when to horribly funded public schools?

    We get exactly what we collectively deserve. There is no compassion for the human condition. What are you willing to give up? Because if the answer in nothing, you are part of the problem and we're fucked!

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    What are you willing to give up? Because if the answer in nothing, you are part of the problem and we're fucked!
    THIS

    it really needs to be THE national conversation

    the conservative swing since Reagan has leaned heavily into preserving private dollars and minimizing public services & support of infrastructure or resource management

    Kennedy's line about public service springs to mind, but, in light of our collective response to this pandemic, it's clear that there is a quorum of people who do not give a shit about others

  10. #610
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    yes, it's notable how little talk of volunteering has been mentioned in this thread, not to mention what comprises a satisfying life, only success measured in dollars and cars and houses. I think those nice Pink Floyd people talked about this . . .

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    We get exactly what we collectively deserve.
    Because we vote the bastards in. Because "socialism" and letting trans people uses whatever fucking bathroom they want. What America needs is some good old fashioned class consciousness.

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by spanghew View Post
    yes, it's notable how little talk of volunteering has been mentioned in this thread, not to mention what comprises a satisfying life, only success measured in dollars and cars and houses. I think those nice Pink Floyd people talked about this . . .
    Sample bias selection. what did you expect the upper middle class rat race that defines success as a work from home job in the mountains to answer?

  13. #613
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    it's not just the white collar WFH types that are doubling down on "fuck everyone else"

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by spanghew View Post
    yes, it's notable how little talk of volunteering has been mentioned in this thread, not to mention what comprises a satisfying life, only success measured in dollars and cars and houses. I think those nice Pink Floyd people talked about this . . .
    If anyone wants to volunteer cleaning my house, please DM me!

  15. #615
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    the conservative swing since Reagan has leaned heavily into preserving private dollars and minimizing public services & support of infrastructure or resource management
    I don't like labels but honestly, I've got more respect for the overt "fuck you, I've got mine" mindset that may be considered conservative than the faux wok "I'm all about change as long is it is something other people do, I've got a certain lifestyle I'm trying to maintain over here" attitude that can be associated with liberals.

    I truly don't know if we did it to ourselves or if it was a calculated agenda of the ruling elite, but income and asset percentiles 10% to 90% should be uniting to take bake the conversation but instead its North vs. South, Dem vs. Rep, Camo vs Patagonia, pickup vs important sedan.

  16. #616
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    ^^^ Look at the history of this country for the past 100 years. In 1921 we were just out of a war, into a pandemic and trying to figure out where the US fits into the world. Still a mostly agrarian society although more and more people were moving to cities for the opportunities that were available. Then came a depression and another totally shattering world war followed by America as the only country left mostly whole although at a tremendous cost.

    That set of generations knew hardship and sacrifice and still believed that it was noble to give your life for your country or for the greater good. Since then we have known unparalleled prosperity for a 1/2 century and now the wheels are starting to fall off mainly because we have had it so fucking good that we feel we are owed continued unicorns and rainbow colored ponies.

    And it mostly comes down to "fuck everyone else"
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted reborn View Post
    If anyone wants to volunteer cleaning my house, please DM me!
    I'd do it if you started a band with dunfree and glademaster.
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    Sample bias selection. what did you expect the upper middle class rat race that defines success as a work from home job in the mountains to answer?
    As someone that feels increasing surrounded by these types, boy are they an unaware and unhappy bunch. You'd think folks fortunate enough to talk the two doodles for a walk around the pond in the middle a nice sunny midweek day could, every now and then, smile and say high. Nope.

    If your existence is so fuckin' miserable, why to you need to throw off the vibe that everyone and everything is a threat to it?

  19. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    I don't like labels but honestly, I've got more respect for the overt "fuck you, I've got mine" mindset that may be considered conservative than the faux wok "I'm all about change as long is it is something other people do, I've got a certain lifestyle I'm trying to maintain over here" attitude that can be associated with liberals.

    I truly don't know if we did it to ourselves or if it was a calculated agenda of the ruling elite, but income and asset percentiles 10% to 90% should be uniting to take bake the conversation but instead its North vs. South, Dem vs. Rep, Camo vs Patagonia, pickup vs important sedan.
    If you really believed that, you’d love the PRC or even the big citys where everyone is hustling edit: or even the “hustlers” who’ve hustled themselves to a “merit” job.

  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    the conservative swing since Reagan has leaned heavily into preserving private dollars and minimizing public services & support of infrastructure or resource management
    While simultaneously decrying government dysfunction.


    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If your existence is so fuckin' miserable, why to you need to throw off the vibe that everyone and everything is a threat to it?
    Wonder if your new neighbors are thinking the same.

  21. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by spanghew View Post
    yes, it's notable how little talk of volunteering has been mentioned in this thread, not to mention what comprises a satisfying life, only success measured in dollars and cars and houses. I think those nice Pink Floyd people talked about this . . .

    After a man gets to a certain age, the bushcraft lifestyle starts to loose some of its appeal.

  22. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    While simultaneously decrying government dysfunction.




    Wonder if your new neighbors are thinking the same.
    I may not be smart enough to understand, but I think you are swinging at a piñata that ain't there.

    I'm a far from miserable person. The fact that I see my community circling the drain and I view the local economy & society as sustainable and am both vocal and willing to do something about it isn't a problem to me.

  23. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    As someone that feels increasing surrounded by these types, boy are they an unaware and unhappy bunch. You'd think folks fortunate enough to talk the two doodles for a walk around the pond in the middle a nice sunny midweek day could, every now and then, smile and say high. Nope.

    If your existence is so fuckin' miserable, why to you need to throw off the vibe that everyone and everything is a threat to it?
    So my wife and I both resigned jobs recently. And we got new ones -- both fully remote. Big increase in income thanks to her. Mine is still with the state so need to be in CO, her's can be anywhere. We could sorta become these people. And fuck do I want to. I love skiing and trail running. I commute from Denver in my minivan to volunteer patrol 30 days a year, ski another 30 on top of that, sleeping in the van a bunch. Spend 30-40 days camping every summer up there. We'd love to live in the mountains. Our non-doodle dog would too.

    But fuck -- even if we can afford 700k for a 3/2 in the hills with space for us both to WFH, there are barely any of those available. And then we'd just be contributing to the fucking mess up there. We'd just be fucking over our friends who work guiding, patrolling, serving, even more than it already is. I'd probably have to walk my dog in shame knowing I'm just contributing to the fucking up of these places. Those people deep down probably know they aren't helping build sustainable mountain communities which makes them sour.

  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    If you really believed that, you’d love the PRC or even the big citys where everyone is hustling edit: or even the “hustlers” who’ve hustled themselves to a “merit” job.
    You wanna flesh that out for me a tad so I understand what I'm supposed to really believe in. The communist China part I get but down understand. I'm definitely pro-hustler but I'm not sure there is enough hustle out there for everyone.

  25. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    ^^^ Look at the history of this country for the past 100 years. In 1921 we were just out of a war, into a pandemic and trying to figure out where the US fits into the world. Still a mostly agrarian society although more and more people were moving to cities for the opportunities that were available. Then came a depression and another totally shattering world war followed by America as the only country left mostly whole although at a tremendous cost.

    That set of generations knew hardship and sacrifice and still believed that it was noble to give your life for your country or for the greater good. Since then we have known unparalleled prosperity for a 1/2 century and now the wheels are starting to fall off mainly because we have had it so fucking good that we feel we are owed continued unicorns and rainbow colored ponies.

    And it mostly comes down to "fuck everyone else"
    ^^^Much wisdom with this one....

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