22 Blue - Looking ahead to the New (aka Fuck Summer (aka Tahoe Thread))

[CS]

I've got 5 single day Mt. Whitney permits reserved and paid for on Oct 7th that I won't be able to use due to a last second wedding invitation. Thought I would offer them up if anyone is interested. I can print the permits off one week in advance and email them to you. I've done the up and down in a day three times in the past, it's a ball buster, but a cool experience. Hit me up and you can have them.

From my understanding, permits are not transferable. You are the permit holder and only you can pick it up and use it.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Looks like the Jones Ridge cam has picked up a new fire start north of 80 and north of Dutch flat (just guesses). Actually looks to be in the vicinity of Toney's Disc Golf Course
https://www.alertwildfire.org/region...xis-JonesRidge

At the same time, fire jumped the American river and is running up to Forrest Hill fast



Bunch of heavy tankers have been called in….

[TahoeJ]

[bodywhomper]

My kid and DIL did it--descent by the mountaineer's route. And permit--they didn't need no permit. They didn't have to show you any stinkin' permit.

Dutch Fire at Dutch Flat. WB I80 traffic being routed on 20 through NC and GV. 25 acres 0% containment.

Did they solo the class 5 stuff? Had a friend that did it, probably before I was born. He and his bud treated it like a technical run.

Tankers were flying overhead for the Dutch fire about 2 hrs ago.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Dropping right along Forresthill Rd, apparently. Talking about trying to backburn if they can get crews out and accounted for. Seems like a Hail Mary in a desperate situation, but IANAE.



https://twitter.com/madisenkeavy/sta...vG_QXNKvPt6Piw

Edit:

confirmed, I guess

[old goat]

Did they solo the class 5 stuff? Had a friend that did it, probably before I was born. He and his bud treated it like a technical run.

Tankers were flying overhead for the Dutch fire about 2 hrs ago.

I don't believe they soloed anything C5 , a lot of simulclimbing though. Snow on the Mountaineer's sped the descent--in approach shoes, no axes. They're not super climbers--5.10 a-b trad, but both very fit.
My other kid, who is not very fit, did the Presidential traverse in a day -- first date with his now wife. Just had their first kid so I don't see either getting fitter.

Any geologists in the house? Hiking the PCT south of Donner Pass the rock along the level section on the west side of Mt Judah is mostly volcanic but there's one outcrop of orange-ish compact rock that fractures clean and sharp in straight lines. Some kind of metamorphic rock? Anyone know what it is? I've been hiking that trail for over 30 years but never paid attention to it but now I have a sudden burning desire to know. On second thought, scratch "burning". Thank you.

[J. Barron DeJong]

https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/...vG_QXNKvPt6Piw

Ughhh…

[bodywhomper]

Play by play on yubanet, too :gripped:

https://yubanet.com/regional-fires/volcano/

[shaft]

TGR is always a great resource for up-to-date fire info. Here's to hoping for some luck this week. In hopes of reducing weeks like this in the 2030s/2040s, consider the following (cross-post from climate change thread.)

Truckee is having a meeting this Thursday at the Rec Center from 5-7pm. The Town looking for community feedback on whether all new construction should be fossil fuel free. Get out there! Moreover, if your children are interested in climate change, it is a good chance to teach local civic engagement.

https://www.townoftruckee.com/Home/C...2Fnews-updates

If Crested Butte can do it, so can Truckee. 25% of buildings in the US are already all-electric. Norway is at 100% (though they are a culture that loves burning wood when it is really cold.) Making a building all-electric when building it is just the smart way to do it. Annoying to retrofit later...though we'll have to do that too.

[Blaster]

Any geologists in the house? Hiking the PCT south of Donner Pass the rock along the level section on the west side of Mt Judah is mostly volcanic but there's one outcrop of orange-ish compact rock that fractures clean and sharp in straight lines. Some kind of metamorphic rock? Anyone know what it is? I've been hiking that trail for over 30 years but never paid attention to it but now I have a sudden burning desire to know. On second thought, scratch "burning". Thank you.

I'm pretty sure I've looked at that rock too. The USGS map for the area is helpful. https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/Prodesc/proddesc_101468.htm.

If I'm thinking about the rock you it is the blue "Jle" blob on the map, Quartz arenite.

[powdork]

My other kid, who is not very fit, did the Presidential traverse in a day -- first date with his now wife. Just had their first kid so I don't see either getting fitter.

Well as a dad it's incumbent upon you to let them know with a kid it is now even MORE important to stay in shape.

[old goat]

Well as a dad it's incumbent upon you to let them know with a kid it is now even MORE important to stay in shape.

You mean do as I say, not as I do?

[powdork]

exactly.


If you haven't seen it yet the footage from the KCRA chopper is intense. Skip ahead to the 43 minute mark to see the firefighters battling to save parts of foresthill


It's gotta be crazy to be the owners of Wortons and be able to watch the flames encroach from a helicopter in real time when this was streaming.

[old goat]

The S word is in the forecast for this weekend. (If I spelled it out it wouldn't happen.)

[powdork]

The S word is in the forecast for this weekend. (If I spelled it out it wouldn't happen.)

hmmm, does that mean if I mention the SMOKE in the forecast this weekend it won't happen?

Enjoy the smoke free air while you can. Watching the Bunker Hill timelapse you can see the ridgelines disappearing from north to south as the wind is losing it's southern component. Gonna be a long day cause it's already starting the column.

[old goat]

The smoke rolled in this afternoon as scheduled. But yesterday morning and this morning were quite nice.

[TahoeJ]

TGR is always a great resource for up-to-date fire info. Here's to hoping for some luck this week. In hopes of reducing weeks like this in the 2030s/2040s, consider the following (cross-post from climate change thread.)

Truckee is having a meeting this Thursday at the Rec Center from 5-7pm. The Town looking for community feedback on whether all new construction should be fossil fuel free. Get out there! Moreover, if your children are interested in climate change, it is a good chance to teach local civic engagement.

https://www.townoftruckee.com/Home/C...2Fnews-updates

If Crested Butte can do it, so can Truckee. 25% of buildings in the US are already all-electric. Norway is at 100% (though they are a culture that loves burning wood when it is really cold.) Making a building all-electric when building it is just the smart way to do it. Annoying to retrofit later...though we'll have to do that too.

All electric in snow country is… interesting. My power was out for 6 straight days last December. Do they setup warming centers in CB for such events? Granted they don’t get hit with (increasingly larger) atmospheric rivers.

[old goat]

Gas pumps don't work without electricity. ICE's do have a longer range, currently. And in Truckee I believe there is one gas station that has a generator but no one is saying which one that is.
Obviously one of the things that has to happen is for electricity infrastructure in snow country and everywhere else to be hardened, and undergrounded to prevent wildfires--like the mosquito fire currently burning.

[bodywhomper]

Mosquito Fire could just as easily been ignited by lightning.

When power was out in truckee/Tahoe donner, who’d y’all get by for food cooking if you didn’t have a generator? Wood burning stoves, outdoor bbqs, and manually lit gas stovetops? Are wood burning stoves not allowed in new construction in CB? what’s proposed for town of truckee?

[old goat]

I have 2 of 4 burners on my gas stove that I can light without electricity. I've never tried cooking on my woodstove--suppose I could.
Grill always an option--although if it's spring summer fall only propane, not wood, allowed,, and if it's red flag--as it would be during a PSOM--no outdoor flames of any kind.

What's really disturbing in Truckee is the lack of community planning. We've been told to be prepared but we're all on our own. In a PSOM there will be minimal if any cell service, even if you have a charged phone. People will likely not be able to call 911. No effort as far as I know to build a microgrid with generators. We've been told to have a plan for meds that need refrigeration, like insulin. What plan would that be. You have to access insulin multiple times per day, so even if you have lots of ice and a good cooler it won't last more than a couple of days. And once a PSOM is planned ice will sell out quickly. And it's not something that can be obtained ahead of time and stored, is it. I imagine that anyone who has a place to go to will leave town if there's a long outage. The town put out a long complicated document about planning for a PSOM but there was nothing in it about anything that would actually help people.

I suppose I should stop whining--PGE customers have been dealing with PSOM's for years, and after disasters people do without power for weeks. And at least 700B people have no electricity, period.

[JPaul]

Mosquito Fire could just as easily been ignited by lightning.

When power was out in truckee/Tahoe donner, who’d y’all get by for food cooking if you didn’t have a generator? Wood burning stoves, outdoor bbqs, and manually lit gas stovetops? Are wood burning stoves not allowed in new construction in CB? what’s proposed for town of truckee?

When the power was out in late December, we did all our cooking by manually starting the gas burners on our cooktop (we're in TD with SWGas service). Obviously not an option if an electric cooktop, but would have been easy enough to fire up the grill or a camp stove as needed. Prob a good idea to source a camp stove for this eventuality if going all-electric*, or one of those propane-fired hot plate things.

For heat, I happen to have gotten a few hot water bottles (the kind you sleep with) as Christmas gifts, so those came in very handy when no heat for days (no forced air, and couldn't confirm that our fireplace chimney wasn't buried by all that snow). Crawl space stayed above freezing the whole time, so that was a huge relief to not have to open/drain pipes, and we had plenty of water for cooking/tea.

Dunno what Truckee is looking at going forward for fireplaces, but as recently as 2019, there have been rebates for replacing "non-compliant" wood/solid fuel fireplaces with compliant ones, and higher rebates for gas inserts.


* OG points out there are often widespread burn bans in town/the area, but I don't think gas grills/campstoves on private property have been part of those bans yet. It could happen, and extended outages are not unheard of in the summer/hot weather.

He also points out people have been dealing with PSOMs and weather disasters for years, so it is hard to complain about how often we have had outages for any reason in the past (Rarely, IMO, for the weather conditions). Not clear that will be the case going forward. Also, I am skeptical of his 700B number...

[powdork]

Good thing they don't make those mannequins out of wax any more.

also, yes, although I don't know if it happens concurrent with all red flag days there have been days when outdoor flames of any kind have been banned. However, I think the ban came from the city of SLT which is not where red flag designations come from.

[truckeelocal]

Pet peeve ... (Ultralight) hikers and their (ultralight) Esbit stoves. Uncontrollable open flame. Illegal. Unpoliced.

And an observation that most of our outages are in winter when propane stoves/grills are perfectly acceptable heat sources for cooking. And it's kinda fun to have an outage to see what life is like without TV/Internet. I end up chatting to the wife

[old goat]

* OG points out there are often widespread burn bans in town/the area, but I don't think gas grills/campstoves on private property have been part of those bans yet. It could happen, and extended outages are not unheard of in the summer/hot weather.

He also points out people have been dealing with PSOMs and weather disasters for years, so it is hard to complain about how often we have had outages for any reason in the past (Rarely, IMO, for the weather conditions). Not clear that will be the case going forward. Also, I am skeptical of his 700B number...

The ban on burning wood and charcoal in grills, etc in Truckee absolutely applies to private property, as well as the ban on any outside flame during red flag days. The fire district tells people to call 911 if your neighbor is grilling during red flag days. (That seems extreme. I'd probably just go over with a fire extinguisher.) For those who don't know the wood/charcoal ban is normally June through November. It doesn't apply in the state park, which a lot of us think is nuts.

As far as 700B without electricity--https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2021/06/07/report-universal-access-to-sustainable-energy-will-remain-elusive-without-addressing-inequalities
Another source says 900B.

[skysos]

We've been told to have a plan for meds that need refrigeration, like insulin. What plan would that be. You have to access insulin multiple times per day, so even if you have lots of ice and a good cooler it won't last more than a couple of days. And once a PSOM is planned ice will sell out quickly. And it's not something that can be obtained ahead of time and stored, is it. I imagine that anyone who has a place to go to will leave town if there's a long outage.

I'm insulin-dependent and it's not really that big of a deal for insulin to be unrefrigerated. 3-4 days of insulin is carried on my person in my insulin pump. Not only is it not refrigerated, it gets up to 100F+ on a hot day of course. The vial is kept on a countertop for weeks. My supply is kept in the refrigerator for long-term.

I'm sure there are meds that MUST be refrigerated though, so your point is taken. CPAP machines are another major problem for people that must have power.

The danger with insulin is actually from freezing. This is a problem skiing on really cold days. Once it freezes it's done.

We have a generator that we run the fridge, gas fireplace, and lights on when we lose power in South Lake.

Someone mentioned power outages in Crested Butte. In the 8 years I lived in the Gunnison/Crested Butte area I never saw one. There just aren't that many trees falling on power lines (fewer trees, lighter snow), and winds are not as high.