22 Blue - Looking ahead to the New (aka Fuck Summer (aka Tahoe Thread))

[TahoeJ]

My completely unscientific anecdotal hunch is that maybe 60-70% of second homeowners in the area could still afford the house without STR-ing and just leave it empty when they aren't using it. But even just freeing up the market with that other 30-40% would have a significant impact. That's why I feel like limiting the number of STR nights allowed (say 30 nights max in a calendar year) is the most realistic compromise vs. an outright ban. It would definitely eliminate the full time hotels-in-neighborhoods problem, which is likely where a huge portion of the LTR's disappeared to. At the very least those houses are the most problematic, like OldGoat's much discussed neighbors.

[dookeyXXX]

Dookey: yeah - selective angles...no one was hiking, really. Turn the camera to the left and it's full-on WROD pinball.

Yeah I didn't bother hiking cuz I was on 174cm 76mm skinnies.
That, and when I tested the snow OP it was thick and gloppy.

Bout to head over Rose HWY. Hoping for some semi-corn...

[Powcruzer]

Is there a thread for all the newly minted VHR Economists?

[LongShortLong]

Is there a thread for all the newly minted VHR Economists?

For sure. Has Tahoe ever not had a short-term rental market? I remember renting for the weekend was a thing long before AirBnB or the internet became cool. Get some buddies together, find a cabin via the classifieds (did they print papers specifically for this? don't recall), or call a real estate agent.

I agree that maybe (maybe not) it's become more of a problem, but STR has been around. I 'member plenty of times trying to park our wagon train in a too small driveway. We must have upset at least one neighbor. There's not enough hotels, many people would rather stay in a cabin, other people have unused cabins. There's been renting ever since white man (probably before). I guess the Donner's were sort of squatting when they came through, but ever since then, rental has been a thing. And they ate a neighbor, who may have been upset about visitors.

[mcski]

Yep. Maybe not to the degree but we’ve always had vacation rentals in our hood. I seriously doubt the recent home owners are gonna start renting the homes out long term or selling. Most seem to have plenty of money and they rent just to make a little scratch on the side. Full time Airbnb purchaser smight be different but I don’t know any around me. Although there is at least one house that has been a full str vacation rental for at least 20 years.

[powdork]

For sure. Has Tahoe ever not had a short-term rental market? I remember renting for the weekend was a thing long before AirBnB or the internet became cool. Get some buddies together, find a cabin via the classifieds (did they print papers specifically for this? don't recall), or call a real estate agent.

I agree that maybe (maybe not) it's become more of a problem, but STR has been around. I 'member plenty of times trying to park our wagon train in a too small driveway. We must have upset at least one neighbor. There's not enough hotels, many people would rather stay in a cabin, other people have unused cabins. There's been renting ever since white man (probably before). I guess the Donner's were sort of squatting when they came through, but ever since then, rental has been a thing. And they ate a neighbor, who may have been upset about visitors.

There is enough hotels, or easily can be. Hotels stopped being built becaue of the competition from STRs. If there is a demand for rooms then you will see those defunct strip motels along 50 replaced quickly. Plus we just continue to promote to more people than we can handle. STR's were around prior, but they really took off with the internet. They were among my biggest clients when I was doing the web marketing thing in the 2000s. They were growing tremendously as the different property and database management programs made it waaaaaay easier for both the renter and the owner. So the owner could rent it way more of the time with much less work on his part. And then they exploded again with the advent of AirBnB.

[heckacali]

I wish people wouldn't lump the situation in south lake in with TC and Truckee.

SLT has the casinos and tons of motel rooms to handle tourists outside STRs.
Truckee absolutely does not, TC does not, unless you lump it with KB.

[TahoeJ]

There are definitely not enough hotels in the Truckee / TC area. A complete STR ban would be a disaster.

[old goat]

There are definitely not enough hotels in the Truckee / TC area. A complete STR ban would be a disaster.

Disaster for whom? I don't see anyone advocating a complete ban on STR's both new and old. There is a balance to be struck between beds for tourists and beds for workers. There is balance to be struck between not enough tourists to sustain the economy and so many tourists that the roads, restaurants, resorts, workers, etc can't handle the crowds. Clearly the balance has swung way too far towards too many tourists and tourist beds and a ban on new STRs and a yearly limit on the number of days STRs can be rented per year is a good place to start correcting the balance. Getting rid of the full time STR's is a necessity--they seriously degrade the quality of life in neighborhoods. And these places don't do anything for the economy of the region. IME most of the occupants bring their own food from home, don't eat out, don't patronize other local businesses--in the winter most don't even ski. Mostly people stay put and party more or less noisily.

Reducing STR rentals won't solve the worker housing problem by itself, not by a long shot, but it's a necessary component. Remember that Truckee's ban on STR's in new construction will incentivize more affordable housing to be built and the moratorium on new STR permits won't reduce the number of existing STRs but will prevent the conversion of owner occupied and long term rental housing into STRs.

[powdork]

I wish people wouldn't lump the situation in south lake in with TC and Truckee.

SLT has the casinos and tons of motel rooms to handle tourists outside STRs.
Truckee absolutely does not, TC does not, unless you lump it with KB.

Good point

[mmmm...pow!]

Disaster for who?
And there is plenty of hotels. Olympic Valley is pretty much never at full capacity, even during holidays. A new hotel is being built in tc. New one just built in truckee, plenty of others with empty rooms almost all the time. So maybe Christmas week and July 4th would be a bit less crowded, plenty of room the rest of the year. And Reno isn't that far, if locals can commute from there every day to work and play, it shouldn't be too far for a few days of vacation. If we keep going the way we are now, there won't be any peasants left to toil for the tourists.

[Powcruzer]

I want to cook a Thanksgiving turkey with my whole family on a hot plate in a hotel room. Said no one.

Disaster for who?
And there is plenty of hotels. Olympic Valley is pretty much never at full capacity, even during holidays. A new hotel is being built in tc. New one just built in truckee, plenty of others with empty rooms almost all the time. So maybe Christmas week and July 4th would be a bit less crowded, plenty of room the rest of the year. And Reno isn't that far, if locals can commute from there every day to work and play, it shouldn't be too far for a few days of vacation. If we keep going the way we are now, there won't be any peasants left to toil for the tourists.

[LongShortLong]

There is enough hotels, or easily can be. Hotels stopped being built becaue of the competition from STRs. If there is a demand for rooms then you will see those defunct strip motels along 50 replaced quickly. Plus we just continue to promote to more people than we can handle.

If it's just me, or just two of us, and we're primarily there to ski and return home, a room is fine. Otherwise, a cabin is much nicer. Place to sit and talk and cook and eat. And it's in the woods and quite a bit calmer and quieter. Maybe a spot for a sled run too. More hotels and motels don't meet this need. Maybe cabin rental developments would.

As for the too many people problem, try polluting the lake and clearcutting the forests - make the lake green and the mountains brown. Fix the weather too - lots of cold rainy or hot muggy. How about some dirty industrial facilities? If it's less nice, people will leave for a nicer place. That's all to say - I don't think you can get what you want (anywhere). A nice place attracts people, like Tahoe attracted that guy in the mirror. Try elsewhere. E.g. some Iowa towns give incentives. Cold and snow with no lake and no skiing, you gotta love it!

Wish for something practical, like a couple feet of snow

[TahoeJ]

Disaster for whom? I don't see anyone advocating a complete ban on STR's both new and old.

It was just suggested above in this thread and has been elsewhere. And it would be a disaster for local businesses. Obviously the current setup needs to be curtailed because that’s a disaster too- hence my suggestion of limiting STR nights allowed.

[thefrush]

Well this thread is back on track with the '21 thread. Snow came, stoke was shared, fuck STRs.

[davjr96]

Well this thread is back on track with the '21 thread. Snow came, stoke was shared, fuck STRs.

The biking today was pretty good

[dookeyXXX]

The biking today was pretty good

The skiing was pretty damn bueno, too.
Hit some sweet corn on a South facing slope off 431.
Corntober!

[hercule33]

It was just suggested above in this thread and has been elsewhere. And it would be a disaster for local businesses. Obviously the current setup needs to be curtailed because that’s a disaster too- hence my suggestion of limiting STR nights allowed.

I don’t know about that. If local businesses are small businesses a lack of STRs could actually be a huge help. Small local businesses are having a very hard time competing with big businesses over the last few years. In fact, one of the best things that you could do support small businesses is to increase the number of wealthy clients. Compare Jackson Hole (town) to Whistler. Whistler has a lot of affordable options in addition to the expensive ones and has far more chains. Jackson, by limiting the supply of lodging, can far better support local small businesses and one trip to the town of Jackson will show you that.

I am not advocating making skiing a sport for the wealthy but simply stating the reality that limiting the supply of lodging will actually help small local businesses because wealthy tourist (not talking about locals) are more likely to support local businesses.

[MashedPotatoes]

so is it gonna snow up there this week? Fuck summer.

[J. Barron DeJong]

so is it gonna snow up there this week? Fuck summer.

No it is not

[MashedPotatoes]

^^damnit. it just rained in the south bay so that means it should snow in the Sierra(s), everybody knows that.

[thefrush]

^^damnit. it just rained in the south bay so that means it should snow in the Sierra(s), everybody knows that.

Snow line at and above 8k for both storms this week according to Rob Carlmark.

https://www.facebook.com/rcarlmark

[TahoeJ]

I don’t know about that. If local businesses are small businesses a lack of STRs could actually be a huge help. Small local businesses are having a very hard time competing with big businesses over the last few years. In fact, one of the best things that you could do support small businesses is to increase the number of wealthy clients. Compare Jackson Hole (town) to Whistler. Whistler has a lot of affordable options in addition to the expensive ones and has far more chains. Jackson, by limiting the supply of lodging, can far better support local small businesses and one trip to the town of Jackson will show you that.

I am not advocating making skiing a sport for the wealthy but simply stating the reality that limiting the supply of lodging will actually help small local businesses because wealthy tourist (not talking about locals) are more likely to support local businesses.

Small vs big? Not sure what you mean. I’m talking restaurants for example. So you’re advocating for $80 entrees?

[powdork]

^ I am, but i don't go to restaurants I work in them

[hercule33]

^ I am, but i don't go to restaurants I work in them

Ditto. Also, much easier for a local restaurant to compete for tourist dollars at $80 an entree against a well established chain than at $20 an entree.