Wasatch 21/22 - We're All Here 'Cause We're Not All There!

[Dantheman]

From UAC this morning:

Of note: was an avalanche out of Hidden Canyon near Brighton Ski Resort. This avalanche was on a northerly facing slope at 9,600' in elevation. It failed roughly 600' wide and anywhere from 2-4' deep, running into a nasty terrain trap that terminates into thick trees. The avalanche was reported by someone else to Brighton Ski Patrol, and upon inspection, it showed two tracks entering the avalanche with no tracks coming out the bottom. Brighton & Solitude Ski Patrols were called into the scene, and they were able to use Recco, along with two dog teams, to search the debris field. Luckily it was determined that nobody was caught in this avalanche. Please, if you trigger an avalanche, report it. There is no need to put others in harm's way if nobody is caught in the avalanche.

Glad to hear this turned out OK. Tracks in, no tracks out, and no caught is kind of odd though. Did they climb back up the slide path?

[Boissal]

I had missed those views:



And those turns:





Thin out there with plenty of sharks lurking and some angry dragons not really sleeping in the basement. Gonna be touchy for a while.
Serious kookery on display too! Got real worried on our 2nd up when we saw a bigass debris pile in the TriChute apron. Multiple sets of tracks covered including the skinner. Talked to 2 guys who were transitioning right when it happened, they said they didn't feel particularly safe looking at the slide coming out of the chute toward them. They apparently chatted with the 2 bros who apparently were "really good skiers" so I guess it's all good? The write up is certainly an exercise in justifying bad decisions and refusing to even acknowledge what could have been a very consequential bad call...

[muted reborn]

showed up at 9:45 on Saturday and wildcat was maybe 75% full?

it sure is nice rolling up the LCC at 10 am knowing I'll have a spot in the Wildcat lot and not rushing to get up there earlier than I want to.

I conclude brad's actions resulted in thomson's observation, my paper on this will be published soon.

[sfotex]

The write up is certainly an exercise in justifying bad decisions and refusing to even acknowledge what could have been a very consequential bad call...

"The faceting and the ice layer were both spatially variable " .....+
"There were no signs of wind slabs or instabilities,"....+
"That chutes obviously had some local variability " =
WTF

[Boissal]

"The faceting and the ice layer were both spatially variable " .....+
"There were no signs of wind slabs or instabilities,"....+
"That chutes obviously had some local variability " =
WTF

Gotta love the "no signs of instabilities" comment for sure. I guess if you leave the car and only look at your feet until you're ready to drop into your line there's a chance you'd fail to see any crowns? Even then I'd say the collapses would be hard to ignore, they sounded like bombs!
Also, no sign of wind slabs on Red Stack? I bet you could ask the oldest ski tourer in the Wasatch about that and they wouldn't be able to recall one single day where the peak wasn't a mess of scoured and wind loaded patches...

[mall walker]

Hey mags, anyone want 2 whippets and a functioning treadmill? we’re moving and I have no room for this stuff. PM me if you do; the treadmill is a nordic track serviced this summer, works fine, heavy as fuck and I sure as shit don’t wanna even try to move it again, I just wrecked my back loading the rest of our worldly possessions into a pod. Bring a friend and an adjustable wrench + phillips head screwdriver to take the top off. Also have a beat pair of tiny tele skis, a single 179 carbon bro, a big cooler, a small window AC, etc.. all gotta be gone by tomorrow. So if you want anything get at me and come pick it up, all free. Moving to Maine for my wife’s job, see you Wasatch cats later.

Edit to add: also have a set of 4 mediocre looking dining room chairs (comfy but low and kinda dated), couple higher stool chairs, a rocking chair, old filing cabinet… table… some truly ancient and beat to shit 28.5 AT boots

Edit: pickup at my house in SLC by the Utes stadium, PM me

Edit: verts/poles spoken for

[Phall]

If anyone wants some of that stuff, I'm real close and can swing over after work and facilitate handoff. Minus the treadmill that is, I like you all but not enough to dismantle that and hold it for you.

[mall walker]

it’s mostly gone, still got some chairs though. and of course that treadmill. and the orphaned bro

[Lone Star]

i need a runway for my RC plane, how long is the treadmill?

[mall walker]

if my understanding of physics is correct it only has to be longer than the plane, so you should be good

[gman321]

As someone who's only got a couple backcountry seasons (but has taken AIARE 1 + 2), could someone explain how the danger rating is only Considerable on North-facing slopes right now? Seems pretty big avalanches are triggering left and right.

I'm used to PNW, where even on Considerable days, skiing <35 degree slopes is often fine. I definitely wouldn't want to be on a North facing 30 degree slope in Utah right now.

I know the danger rating scale is logarithmic, so maybe it's just the difference between the low and upper end of Considerable?

[skuff]

i need a runway for my RC plane, how long is the treadmill?

[CirqueScaler]

The write up is certainly an exercise in justifying bad decisions and refusing to even acknowledge what could have been a very consequential bad call...

Yes, my favorite line was about "the plan," which was to "generally poke around" the Tri Chutes and Birthday Chutes.

Strava:

[getoutside]

Moving to Maine for my wife’s job, see you Wasatch cats later.

best of luck to you and your family. will miss the porter fork reports, the turns, and the beers but not those 4:30 early starts.

[mall walker]

best of luck to you and your family. will miss the porter fork reports, the turns, and the beers but not those 4:30 early starts.

thanks man! yeah good times for sure, I’ll holler when I’m back in town too.

[snowaddict91]

best of luck to you and your family. will miss the porter fork reports, the turns, and the beers but not those 4:30 early starts.

Ha. Ditto!

[Yukonrider]

Solitude skied well today, I believe this is Scree Slope, got a few laps in on it

Would have gotten more but spent 20 minutes watching everyone wipe out on the icy spot below Apex.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[mar123]

... could someone explain how the danger rating is only Considerable on North-facing slopes right now? ...

Do they teach the weight to turn ratio in the avy classes these days?

If you weigh 165 or less and straight line it =Considerable
If you weigh 165+ and like to Wasatch wiggle =High/Extreme

[MitchPee]

"The faceting and the ice layer were both spatially variable " .....+
"There were no signs of wind slabs or instabilities,"....+
"That chutes obviously had some local variability " =
WTF

Yup you nailed it, and what's amazing is there's a free lesson from last year of this eerily similar repeater situation:

https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/58116

https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/63845

More free lessons, Cardiac and Cardiff bowl share extremely similar circumstances. If Cardiff/hellgate slid, why would people SKIN UP CARDIAC? If two dogs slid, why would you jump in the less supported and steeper upper days? I have a lot of sympathy for the poor guys/gals that just get unlucky trying their best, I mean it could be any one of us, but to drunkenly piss on the sleeping bear and take a selfie? Are these the true colors of the future of backcountry skiing? I don't feel like I have a peg leg to stand on when it comes to risk tolerance preaching, but this goes beyond it's a "risk we were willing to take." I guess it's only frustrating if you care. Let's all make better choices guys/gals.

[camlax]

As someone who's only got a couple backcountry seasons (but has taken AIARE 1 + 2), could someone explain how the danger rating is only Considerable on North-facing slopes right now? Seems pretty big avalanches are triggering left and right.

Look at the north american avalanche danger scale. By definition considerable would be "natural avalanches possible, human triggered avalanches likely" and "small avalanches in many areas or large avalanches in specific areas".
Pretty much what we're seeing in the tri canyons area right now. Not many naturals coming out right now so a high rating wouldn't be appropriate.

[mar123]

More free lessons, Cardiac and Cardiff bowl share extremely similar circumstances. If Cardiff/hellgate slid, why would people SKIN UP CARDIAC? If two dogs slid, why would you jump in the less supported and steeper upper days? I have a lot of sympathy for the poor guys/gals that just get unlucky trying their best, I mean it could be any one of us, but to drunkenly piss on the sleeping bear and take a selfie? Are these the true colors of the future of backcountry skiing? I don't feel like I have a peg leg to stand on when it comes to risk tolerance preaching, but this goes beyond it's a "risk we were willing to take." I guess it's only frustrating if you care. Let's all make better choices guys/gals.

Big difference between sunny and shady aspects right now...FYI all of Cardiff didn't slide not even close...it was on the shady steep NE aspect that slid. Cardiff and Cardiac do share similar aspects but on a much different scale... the skin track up Cardiac and tracks down were on the southern end of the compass. Southern Sunny aspects are quite safe.

[tBatt]

^^^ curious, did you dig on 12/18 to see what was on the ground underneath your riding surface?

Here’s Cardiac Ridge from 12/3. We skied the e face of Cardiff bowl, expecting corn, and it was dry, faceted snow with a slight zipper crust. Not the portion that slid recently, but the true E face, just north of the Wyssen tower. Same aspect and elevation as cardiac ridge. This faceted snow was buried 7 days later. The UAC forecast is consistent with our obs in saying E facing aspects have a buried PWL.



For more reference, here’s a pic from 12/2 at 1:30pm, including some of cardiff bowl itself.

[mar123]

Was up on High Ivory/Cardiac zone on 12/11 after it got buried and southern aspects had a stout freeze under new snow. Felt no need to dig a pit on 12/18 because was keeping it on those same aspects....But, IMHO I do feel like we should have dug a pit/pits when we were up in Cardiac zone on 12/18 somewhere off the southerly aspects to gain a better understanding of the snowpack moving forward....I am interested especially after these next series of storms since the snowpack up there is considerably fatter then the rest of the Wasatch if its healing any faster on the Northern End of the compass.

Where we set the skinner and tracks down was not East facing it was South East Facing if not even a little more south then that. That aspect of Cardiac is subtle and a tricky double fall line that actually points more south then it seems.... Was very intentional about not wrapping further into the bowl that would've led to a more northerly aspect....In which if that was even in consideration for that day(which it wasn't) for sure 100% would've dug a pit before going out there.

Again considerable difference in how southern aspects vs. northern aspects thaw/re-freeze and stay dry/facet even if theres existing snow. Doubt anyone dug a pit on S. Superior over the weekend.

Feel kinda weird explaining, but if it helps me, or others, in making better decisions all good!...welcome to criticism and thoughts.

[MitchPee]

Was up on High Ivory/Cardiac zone on 12/11 after it got buried and southern aspects had a stout freeze under new snow. Felt no need to dig a pit on 12/18 because was keeping it on those same aspects....But, IMHO I do feel like we should have dug a pit/pits when we were up in Cardiac zone on 12/18 somewhere off the southerly aspects to gain a better understanding of the snowpack moving forward....I am interested especially after these next series of storms since the snowpack up there is considerably fatter then the rest of the Wasatch if its healing any faster on the Northern End of the compass.

Where we set the skinner and tracks down was not East facing it was South East Facing if not even a little more south then that. That aspect of Cardiac is subtle and a tricky double fall line that actually points more south then it seems.... Was very intentional about not wrapping further into the bowl that would've led to a more northerly aspect....In which if that was even in consideration for that day(which it wasn't) for sure 100% would've dug a pit before going out there.

Again considerable difference in how southern aspects vs. northern aspects thaw/re-freeze and stay dry/facet even if theres existing snow. Doubt anyone dug a pit on S. Superior over the weekend.

Feel kinda weird explaining, but if it helps me, or others, in making better decisions all good!...welcome to criticism and thoughts.

Yes there is a slight southerly component but for the most part it is due E, and also surrounded by an amphitheater of rock so it actually gets much less sun, which is pretty similar to the cardiff/hellgate pocket that ripped out. E with a tinge of S but surrounded by rock and most importantly....windloaded on old snow. For the record, I'm talking about the classic skin track up cardiac ridge, and subsequent tracks, not high Ivory.

When I read your post I see a thought process of justifying to ski, not justifying from objectivity. I mean, look at the pictures of old snow above. Not only is it the slope you're on but the entire ridgeline above that is steep, and certainly faceted/windloaded. People are remote triggering on much less than that. It may be more stubborn than true N, but it's there and definitely not as innocuous as you're making it out to be because there's a slight hint of S midway down the bowl. Also, once that skin track gets put in, people always follow, and push it out just a little more skier's right. Of course, that's on them not you, but still. It's a good thing to be cognizant of.

Not that skiing S superior is a great idea for other reasons, but it is a whole different ballgame than what we're talking about. Also fatter? Fatter than days? No way is there enough HST to promote healing up there...yet. Maybe after this next storm...if it doesn't shed first.

[jtran10]

where are the pics of mar123 on cardiac??