Wasatch 21/22 - We're All Here 'Cause We're Not All There!

[googledidoo]

Folks are saying that the gondola is a done deal.
Heard long ago that the unreliability of the LCC road was a reason there were no Olympic venues up there in 2002.
Gotta wonder if there's world politics involved in this process.
Oh yeah, go gondola!
...

If the gondola is a done deal why have they significantly delayed the decision, why haven't they announced it yet, and why are they spending so much money on TV commercials promoting it?

Get ready for a bare knuckle brawl. There is significant opposition and we won't go away quietly.

[altacoup]

Folks are saying that the gondola is a done deal.
Heard long ago that the unreliability of the LCC road was a reason there were no Olympic venues up there in 2002.
Gotta wonder if there's world politics involved in this process.
Oh yeah, go gondola!
And to repeat myself x 10: Gotta have the infrastructure to support it.
1) Parking for thousands of vehicles at the gravel pit.
2) Widening of Wasatch Blvd.

Spoke to a fella I know this year works for Doppelmayr Ctec.
Asked him to question the engineers.
Engineers said that the company would not put out a product that couldn't move 4,500 people an hour.
All UDOT would have to do to increase capacity from the 1,200 people an hour they advertise is to add cabins.
Towers and cable would be ready.
Another interesting thing the engineer said was that gondola development right now is exploding.
In 5 years we should see lower towers, squatter cabins; a way lower profile than the images we've seen from SOC.
In hearsay, the gravel pit owners say they have 5 more years of material to extract.
I say stall a little. Acquire the gravel pit. Widen Wasatch Blvd.
Horses before the carts and all...

I know for a fact that Snowbird intends to hold Olympic skiing events in any future Olympics held in SLC. There’s quite the plan involving Wilbere ridge, cat tracks becoming tunnels and the Bryce Astle training center. The ability to do so hinges on the gondola. And I’d venture to guess the funding for the gondola hinges to some degree on the Olympics being awarded to SLC. Not purchasing more land for parking at the gondola base was a massive error in planning. My guess is that despite what was stated in the tribune article the adjacent land that’s zoned for single family housing will get rezoned. The land across the street was exempted from normal zoning in a backroom favor to the developer to accommodate more houses. The future of the gravel pit is already public, more corporate offices and such. No parking for the canyons.


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[Dantheman]

Folks are saying that the gondola is a done deal.
Heard long ago that the unreliability of the LCC road was a reason there were no Olympic venues up there in 2002.
Gotta wonder if there's world politics involved in this process.
Oh yeah, go gondola!
And to repeat myself x 10: Gotta have the infrastructure to support it.
1) Parking for thousands of vehicles at the gravel pit.
2) Widening of Wasatch Blvd.

Spoke to a fella I know this year works for Doppelmayr Ctec.
Asked him to question the engineers.
Engineers said that the company would not put out a product that couldn't move 4,500 people an hour.
All UDOT would have to do to increase capacity from the 1,200 people an hour they advertise is to add cabins.
Towers and cable would be ready.
Another interesting thing the engineer said was that gondola development right now is exploding.
In 5 years we should see lower towers, squatter cabins; a way lower profile than the images we've seen from SOC.
In hearsay, the gravel pit owners say they have 5 more years of material to extract.
I say stall a little. Acquire the gravel pit. Widen Wasatch Blvd.
Horses before the carts and all...

How much would quadrupling the number of cabins and all that fancy new tech cost? How much would a 10,000-space garage at the gravel pit cost (assuming, hypothetically, that it's even available)? Can't stall for time when the Olympic clock is ticking.

At a minimum, the EIS cost estimates are already wildly out-of-date and UDOT should have to re-run them before any decision is made. When you start adding on "wish list" items not in the EIS on top of that this is a $2 billion project, easily. Maybe it was a done-deal at $500 million, but the longer this drags out the less likely it becomes that the legislature will fund it. SLC, SLCo, Sandy City and Town of Alta all being unequivocally opposed doesn't bode well, either.

[jtran10]

skiing-wise, I think the biggest factor with a shrinking/non-existent lake will be a faster melting, dirtier snowpack, not necessarily "less snow". We can already see the snowpack melting out faster in most seasons than it has historically, in part due to warmer spring temps, but also due to increased dust in the pack IMO.

[tuco]

Folks are saying that the gondola is a done deal.
Heard long ago that the unreliability of the LCC road was a reason there were no Olympic venues up there in 2002.
Gotta wonder if there's world politics involved in this process.
Oh yeah, go gondola!
And to repeat myself x 10: Gotta have the infrastructure to support it.
1) Parking for thousands of vehicles at the gravel pit.
2) Widening of Wasatch Blvd.

Spoke to a fella I know this year works for Doppelmayr Ctec.
Asked him to question the engineers.
Engineers said that the company would not put out a product that couldn't move 4,500 people an hour.
All UDOT would have to do to increase capacity from the 1,200 people an hour they advertise is to add cabins.
Towers and cable would be ready.
Another interesting thing the engineer said was that gondola development right now is exploding.
In 5 years we should see lower towers, squatter cabins; a way lower profile than the images we've seen from SOC.
In hearsay, the gravel pit owners say they have 5 more years of material to extract.
I say stall a little. Acquire the gravel pit. Widen Wasatch Blvd.
Horses before the carts and all...

I have a buddy that owns/runs a business out of that gravel pit. He said the property manager laughed off the idea of a parking lot in their plans

[Benneke10]

Its insane how people are assuming that the gravel pit will eventually become a parking lot. There are zero agreements in place to make that happen, and it will most likely get sold to the highest bidder to become shops/homes/offices. Just because its sensible doesn't mean that the powers that be care about making it happen.

[criscam]

Its insane how people are assuming that the gravel pit will eventually become a parking lot. There are zero agreements in place to make that happen, and it will most likely get sold to the highest bidder to become shops/homes/offices. Just because its sensible doesn't mean that the powers that be care about making it happen.

this.
my company leases the pit from private owners/family to make aggs and asphalt. i imagine when we're out they'll sell to the highest bidder. rumors of family dysfunction so guessing they'll sell vs trying to develop themselves. maybe i'll talk w the higher ups who negotiate with the owners to see if they've mentioned anything about the future of the place.

[altacoup]

You can go to cottonwood heights city hall and ask for the approved future plans for the gravel pit. The plans do not include parking for the canyons. It will be corporate offices, like exist across the wasatch and I believe there’s going to be some apartments too.

[tuco]

It's owned by the Walker Family Trust. They will more than likely develop that land themselves.

[schindlerpiste]

I have a buddy that owns/runs a business out of that gravel pit. He said the property manager laughed off the idea of a parking lot in their plans

That, in and of itself, is funny. A friend of mine's family used to own 60-80% of all parking facilities in Manhattan (Square Industries). I think that he sold it for over $100mil. That's lot of zeros to laugh at.

[altacoup]

It's owned by the Walker Family Trust. They will more than likely develop that land themselves.

They’ve already submitted and had plans approved for the future development. It’s all public via city of Cottonwood Heights.


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[muted reborn]

That, in and of itself, is funny. A friend of mine's family used to own 60-80% of all parking facilities in Manhattan (Square Industries). I think that he sold it for over $100mil. That's lot of zeros to laugh at.

Funny to you, yes, but it completely makes sense for most or all of us.

[telefreewasatch]

Fuck.
We are so short sighted as a species.
Had no idea the pit was already gone.
Without mass parking by the freeway, mass transit up the canyon is way more complicated, duh.
Wishing that the gondola came to Alta from Summit County via the head of BCC is just that.
No parking by the freeway loses me on the effectiveness of any mass transit...
Carts and horses, eh?

[tuco]

They’ve already submitted and had plans approved for the future development. It’s all public via city of Cottonwood Heights.


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Oh, I'm not saying that's not what's happening. Just don't think they are gonna sell it first

[BobMc]

I have a buddy that owns/runs a business out of that gravel pit. He said the property manager laughed off the idea of a parking lot in their plans

That same buddy told me a couple seasons ago that they only had a few more years of excavation there. That new housing development across and North of La Caille should’ve been the parking lot. Instead, it’s full of mcmansions.

They’ve spent millions “studying” this shit for years, they’ve done nothing but shot themselves in the foot.

[tuco]

That, in and of itself, is funny. A friend of mine's family used to own 60-80% of all parking facilities in Manhattan (Square Industries). I think that he sold it for over $100mil. That's lot of zeros to laugh at.

I'm guessing their plans involve more zeros

[schindlerpiste]

Funny to you, yes, but it completely makes sense for most or all of us.

People can do whatever they want (to a degree) with their property, but to me to dismiss parking as "funny" is short sighted. First, I'd think that they would receive all sorts of subsidies and tax breaks for placing parking there. The hard sell is that season pass holders would want to park there free. Skiers....so entitled. Even so, it would not be difficult to work out a deal with the ski resorts to receive $ from them to allow vehicles to park there. I bet that the could receive over $20/mil/year in parking revenues alone. (let's say $20/veh during the ski season and 7500 cars/day, or the equiv. paid by the resorts combined) Couple this with incentives to place a parking facility on the land and you just hit the jackpot. After a few years, the company will be purchased by a public conglomerate, and the owner will retire to his own island in the caribbean.

[tuco]

That same buddy told me a couple seasons ago that they only had a few more years of excavation there. That new housing development across and North of La Caille should’ve been the parking lot. Instead, it’s full of mcmansions.

They’ve spent millions “studying” this shit for years, they’ve done nothing but shot themselves in the foot.

Yep. And that was before all this building boom. Go drive legacy highway and it's pretty easy to figure out where the gravel is going

[muted reborn]

People can do whatever they want (to a degree) with their property, but to me to dismiss parking as "funny" is short sighted. First, I'd think that they would receive all sorts of subsidies and tax breaks for placing parking there. The hard sell is that season pass holders would want to park there free. Skiers....so entitled. Even so, it would not be difficult to work out a deal with the ski resorts to receive $ from them to allow vehicles to park there. I bet that the could receive over $20/mil/year in parking revenues alone. (let's say $20/veh during the ski season and 7500 cars/day, or the equiv. paid by the resorts combined) Couple this with incentives to place a parking facility on the land and you just hit the jackpot. After a few years, the company will be purchased by a public conglomerate, and the owner will retire to his own island in the caribbean.

That's a much more intelligent thought out response than "parking lots are worth a lot in Manhattan." Thanks for this post. Anyways, the owners are simply going to make a shit load of money developing it and don't have to worry about parking subsidies being approved or the hard sell of getting people to pay to park for $20 to ski or any amount of $ to go hiking/biking in the summer.

[Touring_Sedan]

People can do whatever they want (to a degree) with their property, but to me to dismiss parking as "funny" is short sighted. First, I'd think that they would receive all sorts of subsidies and tax breaks for placing parking there. The hard sell is that season pass holders would want to park there free. Skiers....so entitled. Even so, it would not be difficult to work out a deal with the ski resorts to receive $ from them to allow vehicles to park there. I bet that the could receive over $20/mil/year in parking revenues alone. (let's say $20/veh during the ski season and 7500 cars/day, or the equiv. paid by the resorts combined) Couple this with incentives to place a parking facility on the land and you just hit the jackpot. After a few years, the company will be purchased by a public conglomerate, and the owner will retire to his own island in the caribbean.

There's been talk about what to do with that property for years. Yes, to a certain extent, they can "do whatever they want" with that property... with one exception. It needs to be re-zoned by CWH. Within reason, they can require whatever the fuck they want with that re-zoning, including a certain number of affordable housing units, or a certain number of parking spaces for a certain "mass transit solution." The only risk, and it's a big one, is to fall afoul of the state legislature, which is mostly made up of property developers or friends thereof. They've proved their willingness to pass asinie laws that could easily make CWH's plans null and void.

[tuco]

Fuck.
We are so short sighted as a species.
Had no idea the pit was already gone.
Without mass parking by the freeway, mass transit up the canyon is way more complicated, duh.
Wishing that the gondola came to Alta from Summit County via the head of BCC is just that.
No parking by the freeway loses me on the effectiveness of any mass transit...
Carts and horses, eh?

Pits been owned by same people for yrs and yrs. They are business people. You remember Walker Bank? Ever heard of the Walker Mansion? Or Walker Ln?
They also own the Old Mill right below the pit.
Pretty sure the donated land by Kimball Jct, Swaner Nature Preserve was donated from Walker Trust, but not sure that's 100% accurate

[tuco]

Also, Hillside Plaza is being torn down for this same type development. 0 parking there soon

[altacoup]

There's been talk about what to do with that property for years. Yes, to a certain extent, they can "do whatever they want" with that property... with one exception. It needs to be re-zoned by CWH. Within reason, they can require whatever the fuck they want with that re-zoning, including a certain number of affordable housing units, or a certain number of parking spaces for a certain "mass transit solution." The only risk, and it's a big one, is to fall afoul of the state legislature, which is mostly made up of property developers or friends thereof. They've proved their willingness to pass asinie laws that could easily make CWH's plans null and void.

How many times do I have to say the same damn thing. They’ve already submitted plans and they’ve been approved by CWH. The gravel pit has absolutely zero to do with the canyons going forward. It’s biggest impact will be the white collar workers that are stoked to have their offices close to the canyons. This article is from before approval, but this is what’s going to happen to the gravel pit.

https://www.cottonwoodheightsjournal...velopment-plan

[muted reborn]

I'm confused - that planned development in the gravel pit linked above only takes up a small amount of the pit. What's happing to the rest?

https://www.cottonwoodheights.utah.g...29940039230000

[tBatt]

A non-gondola post

For anyone headed to Alta looking for summer turns - Wyssen Towers are being built on Baldy. There is a sign in Ballroom saying that bit of road is closed. Most of the action is above Perla's. Currently there are no travel restrictions on Baldy. Keep your head up and ears open for rock fall if you're ascending in this zone. Consider Gunsight as an alternate.