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  1. #101
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    Jan 2005
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    The Special Use Permit for ski areas that lease from the Forest Service is incredibly brief and vague (see exact language below). It doesn't tell ski areas what price they can charge. It doesn't tell ski areas they can't set up two tier pricing structures. For years, Crystal (who leases from the Forest Service like Bachelor) has charged $1,000+ for priority parking.

    Ron's letter carries weight just because he's a Senator. But legally, the idea that Bachelor can't do this because they are leasing public land is incorrect (note, Ron is smart enough to not make this claim in his letter and instead focuses on general "ethics"). If Ron (and others) really care about inequities in the ski industry they need to stop local family owned ski areas from selling out to Vail, Alterra, Powdr, and Boyne. Once that happens, forget about equities. And next time these ski areas' special use permit is up for negotiation, spout up and maybe the Forest Service will modify their language so that ski areas can't do this.

    Ron knows that letter has no legal power, probably won't do anything, but will help him get some much needed votes from GOP dominated Central Oregon, while not costing him any votes anywhere else in OR.

    This permit is not exclusive. The Forest Service reserves the right to use or permit others to use any part
    of the permitted area for any purpose, provided such use does not materially interfere with the rights and privileges hereby
    authorized

  2. #102
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    May 2011
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    Truckee & Sonoma
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    Why are people talking about this like it's a new thing? Lots of resorts have had this for years.
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  3. #103
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    Dec 2002
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    cow hampshire
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    Why are people talking about this like it's a new thing? Lots of resorts have had this for years.
    I've never heard of it previously.

    I hate all vip pay to play shite. Inequities because of the mighty dollar are evil imo, but that is capitalism.

    And I've experienced too much vip in my life that has been free, so I've gone or been part of it via work. It's truly bullshit. I don't agree with anyone defending this type of program. It's very Trumpian actually.

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    Wasatch
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    6,496
    I like that I can ride in the carpool lane by paying a few bucks. I also like the fast tracks pass idea but would not use it.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16, 24, 32

    2020/2021 (30/35)

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Planning an exit
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    5,657
    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    I've never heard of it previously.

    I hate all vip pay to play shite. Inequities because of the mighty dollar are evil imo, but that is capitalism.

    And I've experienced too much vip in my life that has been free, so I've gone or been part of it via work. It's truly bullshit. I don't agree with anyone defending this type of program. It's very Trumpian actually.
    My favorite VIP experience was in Aspen at the Women's World Cup. Lindsey Vonn didn't have credentials and they wouldn't let her in to the tent. She got pissy. I think that was the year her ex chopped her ski boots in half because she was cheating on him.

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    50 miles E of Paradise
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    12,043
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    Why are people talking about this like it's a new thing? Lots of resorts have had this for years.
    Because we here in Central Oregon are quite provincial in our outlook. People are still pissed at Powdr for going straight to the shareholders after the former Bachelor Board (all locals) rejected their buyout offer in a close vote.

    And most of those original shareholders sold out, forcing the hand of those who wanted to keep it local.
    But nobody bitches about their hand in the corporatization of the sport...

    Oh yea, and the wound from becoming Ikonic is still a little raw here.
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  7. #107
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
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    81
    I am the target user for Fast Track (I have been trying to get Seven Summits for years but there is a long waitlist). So as the target user why in the world would I pay $150 for a ticket, $40 for parking, and $150 for Fast Track (starts at $69 but on the days when you would actually want it the cost would be much greater) for a total of over $300 to ski still tracked out resort trails when I can pay a couple hundred dollars more for a full day of nonstop untouched powder skiing on a cat. Or double that in a heli. On the weekends the only skiing I even consider anymore is cat or heli skiing. Even if the resort had my own private lift lane I still wouldn't ski weekends as I would still have to suffer a 2-3 hour ride up the canyon and then a 2-3 hour ride down the canyon while losing my mind looking for parking. Not worth it no matter how short the lift line.

  8. #108
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    Mar 2012
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    The Bull City
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    Quote Originally Posted by whyturn View Post
    I like that I can ride in the carpool lane by paying a few bucks. I also like the fast tracks pass idea but would not use it.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    An entirely different lane is like an entirely different lift for special people. If you had to sit on the onramp while the carpool lane people cut around you to hit the SAME road first that would be equivalent to a fast tracks pass. You're not pushing people to positions farther behind you when you use the HOV lane.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    JAC
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    1,132
    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post
    If by "tool" you mean the guy who ski untracked all day and every waited in a lift line at no extra cost to himself, then, yup, that is me.

    If by "tool' you mean the person who gets used by the system, worked up and then whines about shit on the internet and starts online petitions at change, org, no, that would be ya'll.

    Honestly - if you had the chance to not wait in lines on a powder day for free, are you saying you would not do it, and instead stay with the masses OR would you ski untracked all day without ever needing to hike? I did the later, and it was super fun. Thanks to the Maggot who had the black pass (which he got for free, if that matters) that let me be part of his lift group.

    Ya'll can complain about this new thing, but the truth of the matter, is the corps don't care what we ski bum types think about it. They will only care about those who are dropping coin on a week's worth of skiing and lodging. It is like the older this group gets, the more it forgets who they are.

    Oh - and Benny - go ahead and try. I could stand still 5' away from you and that snowball will miss as you sputter and dribble profanities out of your mouth. I still have not forgotten - this is ALL your fault. If you were not such an EPIC fan-boi cheerleader when this shit all started, perhaps it would not have gone down this road. I told you way back than it was just the tip of the shitberg. But you bought that damned pass anyway and look where we are today.
    And that's why if you come to Jackson, I'll make sure to make it just like Stockton Ave. for you.
    The market is dominated by fat skis largely because young toughs want what they see in videos: organ donors hucking into heliski bowls. -Seth Masia

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    Quote Originally Posted by m2711c View Post
    Boaty McBoatface…..
    Ha.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  11. #111
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASmileyFace View Post
    Has signing an online petition done anything ever? Is there a single example of a successful one?
    I have petitioned the Lord with prayer.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  12. #112
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Where's the Inglorious Bastards Fast Tracks rant video?
    You're thinking of Downfall.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  13. #113
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post
    If by "tool" you mean the guy who ski untracked all day and every waited in a lift line at no extra cost to himself, then, yup, that is me.

    If by "tool' you mean the person who gets used by the system, worked up and then whines about shit on the internet and starts online petitions at change, org, no, that would be ya'll.

    Honestly - if you had the chance to not wait in lines on a powder day for free, are you saying you would not do it, and instead stay with the masses OR would you ski untracked all day without ever needing to hike? I did the later, and it was super fun. Thanks to the Maggot who had the black pass (which he got for free, if that matters) that let me be part of his lift group.

    Ya'll can complain about this new thing, but the truth of the matter, is the corps don't care what we ski bum types think about it. They will only care about those who are dropping coin on a week's worth of skiing and lodging. It is like the older this group gets, the more it forgets who they are.

    Oh - and Benny - go ahead and try. I could stand still 5' away from you and that snowball will miss as you sputter and dribble profanities out of your mouth. I still have not forgotten - this is ALL your fault. If you were not such an EPIC fan-boi cheerleader when this shit all started, perhaps it would not have gone down this road. I told you way back than it was just the tip of the shitberg. But you bought that damned pass anyway and look where we are today.
    Damn, is that blood coming out of your nose?

    I'll bet you cried when the big boys hit you in the face with a snowball.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    9
    Before everyone freaks out it's worth seeing how it's actually run. It'll totally depend on how it's priced (whether many people buy it), and how lift operators manage it.

    As other called out, both Sugar Bowl and Sierra@Tahoe have offered a line-cutting product for many years, and it's been no big deal. At Sugar Bowl the line cutting benefits are insanely generous -- if one person has a line-cutting pass, they can bring along a chair's worth of friends. I was once lucky enough to ski a weekend powder day with someone who had this pass, and every time we got to the lift we were ushered right on. We got multiple laps in while we could see the same people waiting in line as we lapped them over and over. But you have to have a slopeside house to get one of those passes, and many of those people are not serious skiers (or too busy heliskiing or whatever) there were probably no more than couple dozen of them on the mountain. So they were basically irrelevant for wait times.

    At Sierra it's basically the opposite -- a season-long "Fast Pass" costs only $200, and the season passes are cheap enough that even with the Fast Pass you're paying less than most resorts charge for a standard pass. Even so, most people don't bother to buy them. The Fast Pass lines are only applied to a few lifts, for a few peak hours, and even then the Fast Pass people still have to wait for a couple minutes, just generally a bit less than everyone else. I've paid attention to wait times on peak days -- on a holiday powder day last season I skied Grandview bell to bell with a standard ticket, and got in 33 laps. If I'd had the Fast Pass I might have gotten 2 or 3 more runs over the course of the day. They didn't even start managing the line maze until nearly 2 hours after the lift started spinning, so it would have made zero difference for first tracks.

  15. #115
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    Oct 2004
    Location
    50 miles E of Paradise
    Posts
    12,043
    JONG, you don’t understand.

    This is yet another example of how Teh Man (Powdr) regularly performs Cleveland Steamers on the chests of Mt. Bachelor’s long-time local snow riding enthusiasts, many of whom make great sacrifices to live here. (This is where you feel sorry for the poor locals)

    And we all know Powdr stole-stole I tell ya - the mountain from the original developers, blessed be thy names. Bill Healy and Randy Pape will soon be sainted for how they selflessly sacrificed for the Mt Bachelor community.

    So locals rise up to fight the power at every opportunity regardless of how quixotic the quest may be. And every time another insult is visited on the locals, they shout “let’s buy MtB back from the carpetbaggers!”

    And after a brief period, they realize a local buyout ain’t gonna happen, the collective butthurt subsides and we learn to coexist with Teh Man
    Until the next Steamer
    Like the salmon returning to Capistrano…
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  16. #116
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    Apr 2007
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    Tahoe
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    14,633
    The problem with this from some resorts' perspective is that quite often people pay for private lessons so they can skip lines.
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  17. #117
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    Apr 2007
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    Tahoe
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    14,633
    Quote Originally Posted by chickendance View Post
    I've paid attention to wait times on peak days -- on a holiday powder day last season I skied Grandview bell to bell with a standard ticket, and got in 33 laps. If I'd had the Fast Pass I might have gotten 2 or 3 more runs over the course of the day. They didn't even start managing the line maze until nearly 2 hours after the lift started spinning, so it would have made zero difference for first tracks.
    What was your username on epicski?
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  18. #118
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    20
    Heard in lift lines throughout the year:
    Fuck John Cumming
    (Powdr Corp chairman).

  19. #119
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    Mar 2012
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    The Bull City
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    The problem with this from some resorts' perspective is that quite often people pay for private lessons so they can skip lines.
    This is limited to the supply of available instructors and costs considerably more than $60 per person. Imagine that times a hundred (conservative estimate?)
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  20. #120
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    May 2009
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    inpdx
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    The problem with this from some resorts' perspective is that quite often people pay for private lessons so they can skip lines.
    I fail to see how this a “problem” for a resort

  21. #121
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    Dec 2002
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    cow hampshire
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperGaper View Post
    And that's why if you come to Jackson, I'll make sure to make it just like Stockton Ave. for you.
    Thats funny!

  22. #122
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    Jan 2005
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    Keep Tacoma Feared
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    John Cumming was born with a silver spoon shoved up his ass. His daddy, Ian, has a Harvard MBA and founded what is now called Jefferies Financial Group, an $87 billion investment bank. In the history of earth, has there ever been a benevolent Harvard MBA investment banker? No, they are all narcissistic psychopaths, the scourge of humanity. The two bought Mt. Bachelor in 2001 in a hostile takeover for $28 million, $6 million less than they had offered in 1996 (Pape, the tractor salesman from Eugene was no match for these Wall-Street shitheads).

    If I had it my way, all ski areas operating on National Forest lands would be required to incorporate as a non-profit, with the board consisting exclusively of residents of the state in which the ski areas sits (similar to Bridger Bowl). When you step back and think about it, it is super fucked up that the Forest Service won't let people build new hiking or biking trails, yet has no problem with multi-billion dollar disney-esque corporations operating for profit businesses on public lands for the exclusive benefit of the 1%ers.

  23. #123
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    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    Cumming is the clueless Mormon who brought in the Vermont state police to shut down the party in the Bear mountain parking lot during the bump competition weekend at Killington, a party that had been happening for thirty years in the spring, the first year he owned the place. It has taken them years to recover from that blunder. Let's see how this pans out.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  24. #124
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    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  25. #125
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    Dec 2002
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    cow hampshire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Cumming is the clueless Mormon who brought in the Vermont state police to shut down the party in the Bear mountain parking lot during the bump competition weekend at Killington, a party that had been happening for thirty years in the spring, the first year he owned the place. It has taken them years to recover from that blunder. Let's see how this pans out.
    Oh! That asshole! fuck him!

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