Fast Tracks pass

[Dee Hubbs]

Why are people talking about this like it's a new thing? Lots of resorts have had this for years.

WhistlerBlackcomb has had a Founders Pass since 1998.
The pass allows Lift Line priority from the base lifts for the pass holder, plus 3 paid guests.
How many WB skiers have ever seen/been impacted by this pass?

[Benny Profane]

Let's not forget that that company lost it's cash cow, Park City, to a clerical error.

[powdork]

This is limited to the supply of available instructors and costs considerably more than $60 per person. Imagine that times a hundred (conservative estimate?)

That was my point. It's that much of a loss for the resort if someone opts for the Fast Pass instead of what is often just a Fast Pass plus a guide.

[Dee Hubbs]

Let's not forget that that company lost it's cash cow, Park City, to a clerical error.

You make it sound like the just signed the business over to Vail.
Vail paid POWDR $182.5M for Park City.
Many industry analyst say that the price tag that Vail paid was at least 20-25% greater than the market value.
If POWDR had put Park City up for sale, the top dollar they would have only gotten $137M for it.

[powdork]

I fail to see how this a “problem” for a resort

because now instead of paying over $500 for a private lesson to skip lines they can pay $70-$150

[powdork]

If I had it my way, all ski areas operating on National Forest lands would be required to incorporate as a non-profit, with the board consisting exclusively of residents of the state in which the ski areas sits (similar to Bridger Bowl). When you step back and think about it, it is super fucked up that the Forest Service won't let people build new hiking or biking trails, yet has no problem with multi-billion dollar disney-esque corporations operating for profit businesses on public lands for the exclusive benefit of the 1%ers.

I'm no fan of the forest service, but they let us (and help us) build a hell of a lot more mt biking trails than they let the ski areas cut down individual trees

[Benny Profane]

You make it sound like the just signed the business over to Vail.
Vail paid POWDR $182.5M for Park City.
Many industry analyst say that the price tag that Vail paid was at least 20-25% greater than the market value.
If POWDR had put Park City up for sale, the top dollar they would have only gotten $137M for it.

Dude, they were paying jack for the land lease before Betty in legal or where ever fucked up and didnt mark the calendar. Why would they sell it? Sure Vail overpaid, I suppose, but, have you been to Park city lately? It's not hurting for customers, and fits quite nicely into their scheme of world domination. Powdr would be getting most of those crowds for capital invested years ago. World class fuckup.

[Huskier]

if one person has a line-cutting pass, they can bring along a chair's worth of friends.

I don't know why, but I don't have nearly as much of a problem with this version of the idea. Get 3 buddies, go in on whatever this thing costs (thus lowering per person cost to be more attainable). Fill a chair every time meaning lift gets more efficient.

One thing I think many are underestimating is the shaming that is going to occur when a VIP dingus adds on as a single on a chair full of pleabs. I know I won't have very nice things to say.

[skifishbum]

I have petitioned the Lord with prayer.

did he bless your heart ?
ive had ullr bless my desires for bc pows

[TBS]

John Cumming was born with a silver spoon shoved up his ass. His daddy, Ian, has a Harvard MBA and founded what is now called Jefferies Financial Group, an $87 billion investment bank. In the history of earth, has there ever been a benevolent Harvard MBA investment banker? No, they are all narcissistic psychopaths, the scourge of humanity. The two bought Mt. Bachelor in 2001 in a hostile takeover for $28 million, $6 million less than they had offered in 1996 (Pape, the tractor salesman from Eugene was no match for these Wall-Street shitheads).

You pulled that part from some media piece right? Because the situation was way more complicated than that. The MtB board split 4-3 on whether to sell out. About 2/3 of the shareholders jumped on Powdr’s offer right out of the chute. And $28 - or even $34 - million was chump change in 2001 - Randy Pape could have paid that out of petty cash and the change in his office’s couch cushions. He just didn’t want to…

Cumming is the clueless Mormon…

I’ll give you the clueless part (forgets to renew a $50k lease, is forced into selling PCMR to Vail) but John Cumming is not Mormon, nor has he been CEO of Powdr for the last three years.

[east or bust]

Dude, they were paying jack for the land lease before Betty in legal or where ever fucked up and didnt mark the calendar. Why would they sell it? Sure Vail overpaid, I suppose, but, have you been to Park city lately? It's not hurting for customers, and fits quite nicely into their scheme of world domination. Powdr would be getting most of those crowds for capital invested years ago. World class fuckup.

Well at least the joke’s still on them, when, in 10 years they’ll be surviving on snowmaking and in 20 when there won’t be snow at all.

[Buster Highmen]

because now instead of paying over $500 for a private lesson to skip lines they can pay $70-$150

The rezorts have likely data and studies to show that for every person willing to pay $500 for a lesson, where the rezort loses $100 to the instructor, it will have more than 10 people willing to pay the $70 with no instructor.

[altasnob]

John Cumming has [not] he been CEO of Powdr for the last three years.

That's like saying Bezos doesn't control Amazon. There is a reason Wyden wrote that letter to John. Not sure who the CEO is but their website says "John Cumming is POWDR’s founder and chairman."

[east or bust]

The rezorts have likely data and studies to show that for every person willing to pay $500 for a lesson, where the rezort loses $100 to the instructor, it will have more than 10 people willing to pay the $70 with no instructor.

Yea, that’s a pretty simple breakdown for any frat boi marketing major to figure out - meaning, yea, they definitely crunched numbers and will make more money doing it. The moves made by any large corp or private company are always driven by $$$ or at least have it in mind. Perfect example is Patagucci’s pullout from JHMR, when conveniently, an REI is set to open in town. Ha, like that wasn’t weighed in that decision making process. But I digress

[TahoeJ]

Because we here in Central Oregon are quite provincial in our outlook. People are still pissed at Powdr for going straight to the shareholders after the former Bachelor Board (all locals) rejected their buyout offer in a close vote.

And most of those original shareholders sold out, forcing the hand of those who wanted to keep it local.
But nobody bitches about their hand in the corporatization of the sport...

Oh yea, and the wound from becoming Ikonic is still a little raw here.

Yeah, I get it. The funny thing is, around Tahoe the Vail and Alterra resorts don't have fast track passes (Northstar used to), but the locally owned non-corporate Sugar Bowl and Sierra at Tahoe have done it for years. Those places don't get nearly as crowded so it isn't a big deal. I barely ever see anyone use it at SB.

[The AD]

WhistlerBlackcomb has had a Founders Pass since 1998.
The pass allows Lift Line priority from the base lifts for the pass holder, plus 3 paid guests.
How many WB skiers have ever seen/been impacted by this pass?

The Founders Pass is a much different animal, though:

FOUNDERS PASS PROGRAM

A sell-out since its introduction in 1998, the Founders Pass is the primary fundraising vehicle for the Whistler Blackcomb Foundation. The Foundation raises $325,000 each year for Sea to Sky community charities through the sale of 50 annual VIP ski passes, generously donated by Whistler Blackcomb/Vail Resorts Epic Promise.

https://whistlerblackcombfoundation....ges/what-we-do

Also noticed the AP has picked up this story:
https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle...caa884e5cacb71

[altasnob]

I'm no fan of the forest service, but they let us (and help us) build a hell of a lot more mt biking trails than they let the ski areas cut down individual trees

Depends on the National Forest. There is almost no trail building going on in the National Forest in Washington (but that's another subject).

Somewhere along the line skiing got lumped in with golf and real estate development. That is fine when the ski area is on private land. But back when society decided it was a good use of the public's land to let companies develop ski areas on them, I doubt they had any idea what resort skiing would become today. Other sports on National Forests are simple. Mountain bikers, hikers, equestrians park in dirt parking lots and take their shits in outhouses. They are (mostly) self-sufficient and competent. Contrast skiing on National Forests, where any wealthy fucktard can have a pampered, shopping mall, experience.

This is a particular sore spot for those in the PNW, whose ski areas lack base area developments like in the Rockies. Our ski areas (used) to have shitty lifts, stinky lodges, and a more rustic vibe. Now, most are owned by corporate behemoths headquartered in the Rockies who are trying to change our ski areas into Vail.

[TahoeJ]

I’ll give you the clueless part (forgets to renew a $50k lease

There are still rumors that was an inside job, aided by a bitter employee. I know someone who worked with that office frequently who insists it's true.

[boardtodeath]

Before everyone freaks out it's worth seeing how it's actually run. It'll totally depend on how it's priced (whether many people buy it), and how lift operators manage it.

As other called out, both Sugar Bowl and Sierra@Tahoe have offered a line-cutting product for many years, and it's been no big deal. At Sugar Bowl the line cutting benefits are insanely generous -- if one person has a line-cutting pass, they can bring along a chair's worth of friends. I was once lucky enough to ski a weekend powder day with someone who had this pass, and every time we got to the lift we were ushered right on. We got multiple laps in while we could see the same people waiting in line as we lapped them over and over. But you have to have a slopeside house to get one of those passes, and many of those people are not serious skiers (or too busy heliskiing or whatever) there were probably no more than couple dozen of them on the mountain. So they were basically irrelevant for wait times.

At Sierra it's basically the opposite -- a season-long "Fast Pass" costs only $200, and the season passes are cheap enough that even with the Fast Pass you're paying less than most resorts charge for a standard pass. Even so, most people don't bother to buy them. The Fast Pass lines are only applied to a few lifts, for a few peak hours, and even then the Fast Pass people still have to wait for a couple minutes, just generally a bit less than everyone else. I've paid attention to wait times on peak days -- on a holiday powder day last season I skied Grandview bell to bell with a standard ticket, and got in 33 laps. If I'd had the Fast Pass I might have gotten 2 or 3 more runs over the course of the day. They didn't even start managing the line maze until nearly 2 hours after the lift started spinning, so it would have made zero difference for first tracks.

Right, this isn't the same. This is day passes that anybody can buy, so the influx of ikon holders can just decide to buy one of these passes and skip the insane line that exist specifically because of all the crazy ikon people coming in. And at snowbird, it's effectively on EVERY chair, all day.

I don't care about "black" passes because those are only available to people who buy season passes or own property, cost thousands per year, and that's a small group who honestly kinda deserve the special treatment. This is specifically marketed at any dipshit tourist, and it will be available on effectively every single chair. Instead of dealing with the crowds like they need to (by maybe controlling the number of people allowed up LCC) they are just encouraging more skiers to come and then letting people skip the line on a day by day basis.

[The AD]

I don't care about "black" passes because those are only available to people who buy season passes or own property, cost thousands per year, and that's a small group who honestly kinda deserve the special treatment. This is specifically marketed at any dipshit tourist, and it will be available on effectively every single chair. Instead of dealing with the crowds like they need to (by maybe controlling the number of people allowed up LCC) they are just encouraging more skiers to come and then letting people skip the line on a day by day basis.

Yes, this.

[snowaddict91]

Yes, this.

Yup. If you don't think Snowbird will pump ads out all winter about skiing more untracked with the fast pass add on, well you are wrong.

[TBS]

There are still rumors that was an inside job, aided by a bitter employee. I know someone who worked with that office frequently who insists it's true.

The story I heard was that "renew the fucking lease" was an item on the former CFO's electronic calendar, but nobody looked at that file after he terminated. Don't remember whose choice that termination was...

[SumJongGuy]

Don't remember whose choice that termination was...

Regardless of who he's laughing his ass off over it!

[Toadman]

Good rant.

https://www.stormskiing.com/p/thanks...il&utm_source=

One can only imagine that a few very wealthy folks who ski at these mountains sent in some emails to the suggestion box;

"Hey, you guys ever think about adding some thing like a 'fast pass' for folks who want to enhance their experience with family and friends be being able to cut in line? Would be willing to pay maybe $50-$100/day, especially on a powder WE. That would be great if you could implement that! Thanks!!!"

[muted reborn]

I don't care about "black" passes because those are only available to people who buy season passes or own property, cost thousands per year, and that's a small group who honestly kinda deserve the special treatment.

Are you a Snowbird local? If so has this happened to you: When it's a busy pow morning and you have been waiting an hour or so for the tram, and you are just going to squeeze into the next one - along comes 4-5 black passers who skip the line and put you on the next tram instead - which is about a 15-20 minute wait more wait until you get up now. It fucking sucks.

Or has this happened to you: It's a busy pow morning and you have been waiting an hour or so for the tram, and you DO make the first tram, and only limited terrain is open: but all the black passers have been making many laps before the resort opens on that limited terrain.

I don't lose sleep over this, but it's annoying as hell.