Hightower V1 and Hightower LT V1

[sethschmautz]

I have been riding a long-shocked hightower for this year season and it's been great. But in the back of my mind is the worry that I'll buzz the seat tube on a deep compression. I found someone willing to sell an LT rear triangle and linkages that would officially make my bike an LT. I've heard that this is the only difference between the standard hightower and the LT (rear triangle and linkages) but can anybody confirm?

Seth

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[XXX-er]

I think you should find something that is actualy worth worrying about

[sethschmautz]

I think you should find something that is actualy worth worrying about

That's simply not my style. :-)

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[XXX-er]

Has it ever buzzed the seat tube on a deep compression ?

Have you checked rear wheel travel with no spring or no shock or no air in the the shock to see if it can actualy happen ?
Is this a real thing ?

[Falcon3]

Yeah I’d say either you’re not riding hard enough, or it’s not possible. You should bottom out your suspension at some point over the course of several rides, otherwise what’s the point having that much?

If it’s possible and you aren’t riding hard enough, ride harder, or put 0.5psi more in the shock to give yourself a little cushion.

[radam]

I cannot 100% confirm it won't rub at full compression but my memory from researching it a lot in the past is that large frames have more seattube clearance for some reason and that also running the flip chip in high will buy you a few extra mm.

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[sethschmautz]

Has it ever buzzed the seat tube on a deep compression ?

Have you checked rear wheel travel with no spring or no shock or no air in the the shock to see if it can actualy happen ?
Is this a real thing ?

I've checked the compression without air in the spring. It *just* touches. My guess is that there is probably some additional flex when a deep compression occurs that might make the issue worse.

The last good ride shows about 5mm of shock travel left before bottom out. I've seen pictures of frames with seat tube buzz from people who have long shocked them. Hasn't happened to me yet (and maybe it won't) but it's kind of always in the back of my mind.

I appreciate everybody trying to protect me from myself but I'm really just curious if anybody actually knows the answer to the question.

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[sethschmautz]

I cannot 100% confirm it won't rub at full compression but my memory from researching it a lot in the past is that large frames have more seattube clearance for some reason and that also running the flip chip in high will buy you a few extra mm.

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This is possible. I have the flip chip in low. I'll check both to verify - can't remember if it *just touches* in low or high. Thanks!

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[John_B]

Get on Pinkbike and study the Huck to Flat videos. Then find a teenager about your weight with rubber ankles and let 'em have at it!

[XXX-er]

so am i to understand you put a longer shock on the bike so now the tire may hit the seat tube on full compression, is there something I am not getting ?

[sethschmautz]

Sorta. The shock length is the same but the stroke is longer. Incidentally, 5mm longer. I originally planned on putting the 5mm spacer into the shock - when I bought it, there was only the longer stroke option available. Ultimately I could go either way - adding the spacer or changing out the rear triangle and linkages.

My thought is that if the front triangle between the standard and LT version is the same and the only change is the rear triangle and the linkages that I could easily swap this over. The rear triangle is reportedly a bit longer and clears a little bigger tire, so there may be some additional side benefits other than preventing contact between the frame and the rear tire.

[cydwhit]

Personally, I would probably just put the spacer in the shock and run it as designed, I don't really think the LT gained that much descending over the regular. I owned the LT and never really totally gelled with it. That said, I ran into a guy in a parking lot who had the original maroon front triangle paired with the dirty mustard LT rear end and said it worked as a bastardized LT because the front triangles were the same. And I'd be shocked if SC had actually gone to the trouble of designing a new front triangle for that half-assed LT.

So yes, I met a guy who put an LT rear end on a regular front, and it worked for him. PB's review also confirms that it's the same front triangle. Party on.

[sethschmautz]

Personally, I would probably just put the spacer in the shock and run it as designed, I don't really think the LT gained that much descending over the regular. I owned the LT and never really totally gelled with it. That said, I ran into a guy in a parking lot who had the original maroon front triangle paired with the dirty mustard LT rear end and said it worked as a bastardized LT because the front triangles were the same. And I'd be shocked if SC had actually gone to the trouble of designing a new front triangle for that half-assed LT.

So yes, I met a guy who put an LT rear end on a regular front, and it worked for him. PB's review also confirms that it's the same front triangle. Party on.

This is great. Thank you! Found a thread on MTBR that I've been working through slowly that seems to suggest the same. Thanks for the info!

[jackstraw]

How much is a rear triangle? Seems like the spacer would be the cheapest easiest way out. Plus, as has been said, the LT lost a little sumptin. There are better bikes out there for what the LT was trying to do.

[sethschmautz]

It's hard to sift through the reviews of Hightower vs LT. Many feel that the LT is a big improvement - better suspension kinematics and support of a larger tire are the two big ones. But like most reviews, it's hard to determine how much of this is reaction to a new product vs a long-time back to back comparison. That said, here is what I've been able to glean from the MTBR thread (in case anybody else has this question in the future):

1. Large frames seem to have the most clearance between the rear tire and the seat post.
2. Tire height is more important to this than tire width.
3. Many have been successful in using a 200x57 shock in place of a 200x52 shock without issue.
4. Those who have had issues with this setup have typically not been serious and when there is impact it is on BIG impacts (i.e. that caused rear shock failure).
5. The down side to this scenario is that the final 13mm of shock travel is in a really flat part of the suspension curve.

The fix for 5., was for Santa Cruz to develop a new, more progressive link (and longer rear triangle to improve the potential for rear tire interference).

6. Some have moved to running just the longer shock and new upper link.
7. This improves both small bump sensitivity early in the travel and makes the final 13mm more progressive.
8. There is still the potential of interference between the tire and the seat post.

The way to get the better progression and remove interference is to run both the link and the rear triangle.

Cost of the rear triangle and links are $350 from Pinkbike dude, or, about $70 for the link alone from Santa Cruz. Cost to install the bumper is probably minimal if I have the shock serviced this winter.

For me, I'm considering getting the new link and having a 1-2mm bumper put in. I think 1-2mm is probably plenty to keep the tire from hitting the seat tube even in a rear shock failure scenario.