“Progressive skiing” with small feet ; (Volkl revolt mounting related)

[iriponsnow]

Ok ready for any abuse/advice the collective have.

This is inspired by Short J’s most excellent Blaze 106 review and thoughts.

I’m a mondo 24 / 285 BSL & have a racer background- plus tiny at 145lbs : have never been able to make a true transition to progressive skiing. Have tried many skis and always felt that the mount & my ability to jive with not railing the tails has been and issue (thinking this is sort of easier for larger folks to break the tails free in a controlled manner).

Decided to give it another go, but this time with a narrower, more center Revolt 87 this season. Any/all input welcome/sought.

I’m east coast 90% of time & can’t borrow for West.

Thanks in advance.

[m2711c]

Praxis Rx.

[random_watcher]

I'm not sure how much foot size comes into it but I'm not much bigger than you at 68kg and a 294mm BSL.

The most notable change for me came the first winter I ended up using a soft, reverse camber ski on non-soft snow. Felt I was suddenly able to engage/disengage the back end of the skis in a way I hadn't before.

So I guess based on that experience, beg, borrow or steal some reverse camber skis and give it a go.

[skiJ]

some of what you have written is
outside of my understanding - And

I laughed at yet another 'Praxis Rx' recommendation. and yet,

it got me thinking - -

at 145#, on a 284mm paw, you might think about talking to a builder ( Praxis for-sure; Shaggys; I am sure they are a coupl of guys in NewEngland I have never heard of ) about a Custom lay-up for your size and the response you are looking for -

might be as simple as one less layer of fiberglass in the tail, Or (something) -
( would tail rocker address the response you seek ? ? )

( how did you do on Race skis... (?) )

( guys in northern Michigan and the Upper peninsula Love Shaggys )

tgr loves Praxis ( and there are others ) --

Good luck. skiJ

[DarthMarkus]

I would take into consideration a few things. "Progressive" skiing I would assume means a more neutral stance, more pivoted turn, and a looser engagement in the tips and tails. But, I think "progressive" can be interpreted on an individual basis.

If pivoted turns and a more neutral stance is what you seek, I think the boot you're in may have an impact on your ability to ski differently than your race background initially wants to.

Additionally, the combination of boot, binding, and ski can also have a significant impact. It's important to keep enough forward lean to allow proper leverage to bend the ski, but having too much on a ski with very little tip is not a fun situation when you're overpowering the tips. Neither is having zero forward lean and an inability to create any leverage to bend a ski. Anyway, probably all old hat concepts to people with a race background.

I learned to ski on straight skis, generally driving the tips of my skis a fair amount, but probably not to the extent of a racer; IME, progressive skis without a tapered tip profile have always jived with me more than any 5-dimensional skis have. I have also always preferred skis with less tip splay. Skis that come to mind initially: Nordica soul rider, Faction CT (1.0 or 2.0), Dynastar menace 98 (maybe m-free 99).

If you're gonna use a racer style boot, don't know if I would go with a more progressive mount point. I'd would also be wary of the recommended line for any freestyle oriented ski. Probably better off with more tip profile. Very dependant on how much leverage the angle on your boots currently give though.



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[iriponsnow]

some of what you have written is
outside of my understanding - And

I laughed at yet another 'Praxis Rx' recommendation. and yet,

it got me thinking - -


( how did you do on Race skis... (?) )

Sure Praxis RX!

I do ❤️ Racerish skis:




So where do I mount the revolts?

Thanks/ all good stuff ppl

[waxoff]

^^Have you played around with different boot-binding ramp/delta on any progressivish ski?

[singlecross]

Get a boot with a walk mode and ski around in walk mode all the time. That really loosens the tail of any ski up. Comfy too after years of race plug boots.

[skiJ]

iri_p_on_snow ...

i_rip_on_snow !


sometimes...

I wrote my initial comment without reviewing the Blaze (106) -

I am betting it will be a fine ski for you -

still, some of the other responses raise some Good ideas, And from my Simple perspective,
I would ask at least two further questions -
- how tall are you (?), and
- what boot are you in (?) ...

Darth raises concern about mounting point, and also confuses me with reference to 'freestyle ski'
( I am an old guy, and My understanding of 'Freestyle' is (very) dated. )

still., based on your pic.ture - and the description of the Blaze (106) by Volkl - I think you are going to be fine ( And I would likely go with the manufacturer's mount, Unless you have reason to change
( perhaps, If you figure, manufacturer's mount is based on a 26.5 - 27.5, you could move forward 1cm to 1.5cm ( - but My impression is technique-ally you are plenty forward. )))

anyway.
I got distracted -
Because My point was, unless you are trying to ski these with a 150 Redster, Doberman, Mach.,
I think you are going to be fine -

Volkl makes some exceptional skis. my RTMs were like a warm knife through butter. Easy; no top end for this old man...

Good luck, u_rip_on_snow !

skiJ

[iriponsnow]

I’m 5’8”-5’9” & would use a Lupo/ Kypton, not my 150z

Freestyle generally refers to a -4 to 5 mount from center & not -8-10 traditional mount.

I too am old


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[Shorty_J]

I'm not sure I caught the question in the OP.

If you want to try to ski more progressive stance, I'd get a ski that rewards that stance, consider a more upright forward lean boot, and just play with it until it works.

The first ski I had that I fealt like I had to turn from the heel was a dynastar 8800 mounted on the rec line. That was in the early 2000s I think? It took a while to figure out but when I did, I liked it.

I don't know anything about the ski you are asking about but you already know how I feel about the blaze at +2. If you're not sure, the other thing you should do is embrace demo bindings and play with the mount point yourself. Start at zero and move forward in small steps and see what you need to do to make that work.

Given you have a shorter BSL, consider mounting demo bindings not as recommended, but "shrunken down" so you have more room to adjust. I believe most demos are on the zero line for about a 315mm bsl... If you mount the heel forward cm and the toe back 1cm you will zero out for about a 295, and have more room to play with mount point. The BSL markings on the bindings won't be accurate and you'll have to use the forward pressure indicator to set them up properly.

That's what I did on my blaze. If that doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll try to do better.

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[iriponsnow]

^no that’s basically it- where to mount to steer more from upright, progressive stance. I’ve not jived w many fat skis, thinking the mount/tiny feet had a lot to do with this.

[Shorty_J]

^no that’s basically it- where to mount to steer more from upright, progressive stance. I’ve not jived w many fat skis, thinking the mount/tiny feet had a lot to do with this.

Yeah... demo bindings and move the mount in small increments to get used to it.

But I don't think small feet and fat skis are at odds with each other. I'm a 25 and have some pretty fat skis that I love. Sometimes fat skis on firm sections of snow can be hard on the ankles but that's the opposite direction of foot length... more a leg length thing maybe?

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[Shorty_J]

Also... in general, my feeling is that progressive skiing is more nuanced where driving the tips is more athletic. If you get used to staying centered you are less likely to get punished by longer tails... within reason.

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[skiJ]

wait - Revolt86... !

wow. I missed that !

Park ski, 'progressive mount' - I am Way out of my element.

I would go with ShortyJ' suggestion of a custom mount of a demo binding and

find your sweet spot !

Good luck... ! skiJ


( I thought Park skis were mounted [ ski center ] ... )

[XXX-er]

Mondo 24 really limits your ski boot choices IME

I do think about how small feet might be different to the skiing, a smaller lever so to speak but then the person will also be smaller so is there stil an advantage ?

I think a small person with big feet might have an advantage

[Shorty_J]

Mondo 24 really limits your ski boot choices IME

I do think about how small feet might be different to the skiing, a smaller lever so to speak but then the person will also be smaller so is there stil an advantage ?

I think a small person with big feet might have an advantage

I'm sure it's different but I don't think it makes one predisposed towards or against a progressive stance or fat skis.

This coming from 1 size up at 25, who skis a progressive stance on fat skis.

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[muted reborn]

This thread is confusing. I have no idea what progressive skiing is or even if I ski progressively for one thing. And the majority of pro freeskiers are tiny or just plain small, IME, so breaking the tails free is not a size problem. Especially if you consider pro women. And if you like a 'on-the-line-mount' and like to lean forward and drive the tips often, you should be able to break the tails free on a lot of newer skis easily (not all).

Is the real problem you can't break/change the muscle memory of your race turn?

[DarthMarkus]

This thread is confusing. I have no idea what progressive skiing is or even if I ski progressively for one thing. And the majority of pro freeskiers are tiny or just plain small, IME, so breaking the tails free is not a size problem. Especially if you consider pro women. And if you like a 'on-the-line-mount' and like to lean forward and drive the tips often, you should be able to break the tails free on a lot of newer skis easily (not all).

Is the real problem you can't break/change the muscle memory of your race turn?

Freestyle skiers, probably. Freeride skiers/freeskiers? If it was true, it's not anymore. Plenty of big people throwing down these days.

TBH, I've never been a fan of putting skiing into a small box and trying to define it - it limits what's skiing can be more than it encourages progressing the sport. Another discussion for another thread perhaps...

I think everyone's got a slightly different idea I'm their head what "progressive" skiing means to them. I would define it as the realization that clinging to a singular way of skiing actually limits your capability and halts your progress of being a well-rounded skier.

Freestyle skiers are guilty of making bad turns and an inability to navigate variable terrain. Racers are guilty of being too rigid, and discount air awareness & capability. You don't see the people pushing the limits at the top fall victim to the stereotypes quite as much though. There's criticisms to all disciplines, the contrast between park rats and racers is just the low hanging fruit. Mogul skiers... I honestly don't know how to criticize; it's the one side of skiing I have mad respect for and will continue to try and get better at.

Anyway, I could wrap it all up and say that if skiing has a more traditional past that could have kept it from "progressing," I don't think it'd be a stretch to point out straight/narrow/cambered skis, the prevalence of racing as a dominant force, and rear entry boots as a good starting point to make a case for how those things getting stereotyped could have held progression of the sport back a little bit.

Evolution of better boots, parabolic shape, reverse camber, fat skis, materials, torsional strength, and reverse sidecut have changed to way you CAN ski, doesn't mean you have to. But I think there's certainly some perks for progressing into using those tools to have more fun.

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[iriponsnow]

^^Have you played around with different boot-binding ramp/delta on any progressivish ski?

yes, flatter seems better.

[ill-advised strategy]

Also tuning!

It might be worth experimenting with adding .5 degree of base bevel to whatever you’re used to…the edge will still be there, but you get a little softer slidier feel on transition. Might be a little more forgiving for playing around with different techniques and stances.

[waxoff]

yes, flatter seems better.

My thinking exactly. That's a good box to have ticked off.

[Shorty_J]

Also tuning!

It might be worth experimenting with adding .5 degree of base bevel to whatever you’re used to…the edge will still be there, but you get a little softer slidier feel on transition. Might be a little more forgiving for playing around with different techniques and stances.

Yup... or detuning the heel edge a little if you feel like you're getting hung up on it with a more forward mount.

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[XXX-er]

progressive skiing, really ?

wierd post but I have to ask is OP having trouble with soft conditions ?

the cure is to ski more soft conditions with whatever feet you got

[iriponsnow]

This thread is confusing. I have no idea what progressive skiing is

Is the real problem you can't break/change the muscle memory of your race turn?

Perhaps.......

progressive skiing, really ?

wierd post but I have to ask is OP having trouble with soft conditions ?

Nope.


I though you guys were the interweb experts?! Progressive - aka new skool aka 2 foot'd aka pivoty aka sliding the tails aka centered ; C'mon man dont make me ask Pugski!