2021/2022 NBA Thread: Anyone but the Lakers or Nets!

**plugboots** · 09-05-2022, 09:03 AM

Thanks BobMc for the notice, I’ll upgrade as well.

**teleee** · 09-23-2022, 08:07 AM

Celtic fans strangely quiet on their coach (or lack thereof)

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**cat in january** · 09-23-2022, 08:28 AM

Yeah sucks big time as puts a major dent in championship pursuit. A lot of details still missing, but seems they did the right thing. Ime will never coach the Celtics again. Analysis this is just a prelude to firing him later or allowing him to resign to save money seems spot on. Kudos to the Celtics for doing the right thing even though it hurts the team.

**Danno** · 09-23-2022, 08:41 AM

I came here to post about this. It's all fucking weird, there are clearly details that are not known right now. Because a year suspension is crazy. And there's no way he's ever coaching them, a 1 year coach doesn't come back from a 1 year suspension.

I'm mostly quiet because what is there to post other than "WTF??????" until we know more.

**Brock Landers** · 09-23-2022, 09:36 AM

Lotssss of rumors and speculation but Wyc just had his presser and was asked- what gives, kinda harsh? And he said he was VERY comfortable with the 1 year suspension. But couldn’t go into many details

**riser4** · 09-23-2022, 09:39 AM

I don't follow sports news unless it lands on the front page of one of the news providers I frequent. Personally, without knowing details, I am going to say Celtics kissed any championship dreams goodbye, forever. They're getting rid of the one guy who could deliver for them in this lifetime. Unless there was rape involved which makes it a criminal matter*, then who cares, other than his girlfriend/fiancee? Slap the guy on the wrist and work on 2022-2023.

*If there was criminal activity, then absolutely get rid of him. But fire his ass, don't suspend him. The suspension is a weak ass move.

**Brock Landers** · 09-23-2022, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by riser4

…without knowing details...

Tell us more about this part

**Mustonen** · 09-23-2022, 09:51 AM

I mean, the speculation is that he had an affair with a staff member, and if there’s an organizational policy against that I’m not sure what else they do. I agree that a year suspension basically means he’s done and they may as well just fire him, but it likely softens some blows somewhere.

**BmillsSkier** · 09-23-2022, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Brock Landers

Tell us more about this part

You should know that's not how TRG works.

**Danno** · 09-23-2022, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

I mean, the speculation is that he had an affair with a staff member, and if there’s an organizational policy against that I’m not sure what else they do. I agree that a year suspension basically means he’s done and they may as well just fire him, but it likely softens some blows somewhere.

That's not speculation, that part is fact. But there is also WAY more to it than that.

**Mustonen** · 09-23-2022, 10:23 AM

I’m not arguing with you. I didn’t realize it was confirmed as more than speculation by anybody in a position to do so, just reports from sources that the Celtics maintain came from outside of the organization. The speculation seemed to include this expanding to something that might have been harassment after the affair, which is what brought it all to a head and makes it ugly(er).

What is the WAY more? Are you surmising that due to the penalty or have there been additional reports?

It doesn’t seem unreasonable or even surprising to me that, if there is a clear policy against it (as Wyk stated), he would lose his job if he dipped his pen in the company ink, particularly if there was a reporting relationship. There doesn’t NEED to be more, though interested what that more might be….

**Danno** · 09-23-2022, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

I’m not arguing with you. I didn’t realize it was confirmed as more than speculation by anybody in a position to do so, just reports from sources that the Celtics maintain came from outside of the organization. The speculation seemed to include this expanding to something that might have been harassment after the affair, which is what brought it all to a head and makes it ugly(er).

What is the WAY more? Are you surmising that due to the penalty or have there been additional reports?

It doesn’t seem unreasonable or even surprising to me that, if there is a clear policy against it (as Wyk stated), he would lose his job if he dipped his pen in the company ink, particularly if there was a reporting relationship. There doesn’t NEED to be more, though interested what that more might be….

The WAY more is that all the reporting from usually reputable sources say there is more, plus this isn't some normal company where you dip your pen in company ink against policy and get fired. To suspend someone like that for a year, indicates that there has to be more. Like deception/cover-up or (as has been reported) harassing the other person or ???

**Mustonen** · 09-23-2022, 10:50 AM

I’ll be interested to see, I guess, if we ever find out. Wyk kind of stated in his presser that it was a violation of company policy and that this also served as a message to all that policies matter and are taken seriously. You can’t very well have a zero tolerance, clearly defined policy, and then turn a blind eye when somebody as visible as the head coach breaks it. It’s not without precedent that the successful leader of a large organization loses their job for nothing more than a consensual relationship with one of their staff. Being in the public eye, like a sports team, just gives them fewer options, not more.

I hear what you’re saying, I just don’t think there has to be more these days, even if there is. It isn’t Mad Men anymore.

**Danno** · 09-23-2022, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

I’ll be interested to see, I guess, if we ever find out. Wyk kind of stated in his presser that it was a violation of company policy and that this also served as a message to all that policies matter and are taken seriously. You can’t very well have a zero tolerance, clearly defined policy, and then turn a blind eye when somebody as visible as the head coach breaks it. It’s not without precedent that the successful leader of a large organization loses their job for nothing more than a consensual relationship with one of their staff. Being in the public eye, like a sports team, just gives them fewer options, not more.

I hear what you’re saying, I just don’t think there has to be more these days, even if there is. It isn’t Mad Men anymore.

Perhaps. The reporting is that it was a consensual relationship but more recently he made some unwanted statements. And he was suspended for "violations" plural. And we have no idea what company policy is or whether it is spelled out what the punishment is, whether it is "zero tolerance" and what that means. Lots of ins and outs and what have yous right now.

**Mustonen** · 09-23-2022, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Perhaps. The reporting is that it was a consensual relationship but more recently he made some unwanted statements. And he was suspended for "violations" plural. And we have no idea what company policy is or whether it is spelled out what the punishment is, whether it is "zero tolerance" and what that means. Lots of ins and outs and what have yous right now.

Right. I think it’s unclear if the unwanted statements were a substantive part of the issue and disciplinary action or if they simply uncovered the fact of the relationship. I think this could end up almost anywhere on a pretty broad spectrum. Harassment, as a workplace issue, is so gray that for it to turn into such a decisive action it almost has to be a big hot mess. This doesn’t really feel like that, it feels like more of a binary violation(s) of a company policy.

Kudos to them, I guess, for being professional and maintaining confidentiality rather than let it turn into a dumpster fire (for now), though the result is that this has limited ability to fuel and further a more public discussion around this kind of thing.

**Danno** · 09-23-2022, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

Right. I think it’s unclear if the unwanted statements were a substantive part of the issue and disciplinary action or if they simply uncovered the fact of the relationship. I think this could end up almost anywhere on a pretty broad spectrum. Harassment, as a workplace issue, is so gray that for it to turn into such a decisive action it almost has to be a big hot mess. This doesn’t really feel like that, it feels like more of a binary violation(s) of a company policy.

Kudos to them, I guess, for being professional and maintaining confidentiality rather than let it turn into a dumpster fire (for now), though the result is that this has limited ability to fuel and further a more public discussion around this kind of thing.

According to the reporting, the unwanted comments came after the relationship was discovered, it was not the source.

In any event, I am glad this man is leading the team:

https://twitter.com/AdamMKaufman/sta...1578360836096? (sorry, don't know how to embed twitter video, but do click, in this era of fucked up shit we live in, it's refreshing)

**cat in january** · 09-23-2022, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by riser4

. Personally, without knowing details, I am going to say Celtics kissed any championship dreams goodbye, forever. They're getting rid of the one guy who could deliver for them in this lifetime. .

It sure makes it tougher this year and with Al Horford getting older it could be one of their better chances. Still they are a plum coaching position

**riser4** · 09-23-2022, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by cat in january

It sure makes it tougher this year and with Al Horford getting older it could be one of their better chances. Still they are a plum coaching position

Ya. I guess I just feel betrayed and need to lash out somewhere. When in doubt I always blame management.

Boston was so close. And I really liked Ime Udoka's approach. I guess he flew too close to the sun. No idea where they are going to get someone to fill his shoes.

**teleee** · 09-23-2022, 11:43 AM

I bet Will Hardy is kicking himself for taking the shit show that is the Jazz

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**neufox47** · 09-23-2022, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by riser4

Ya. I guess I just feel betrayed and need to lash out somewhere. When in doubt I always blame management.

Boston was so close. And I really liked Ime Udoka's approach. I guess he flew too close to the sun. No idea where they are going to get someone to fill his shoes.

I think NBA coaches are pretty over rated in their impact. I’d say coach importance goes from low to high in the big 4 sports MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL. It’s not nothing but I think that as long as they get another good coach, they will be fine. I’d much rather replace a coach than a top 50 NBA player.

**Danno** · 09-23-2022, 12:10 PM

As far as post-season success, NBA coaches are definitely not overrated. There's a reason Miami is consistently good. There's a reason the Warriors went from playoff team to world champs when they changed coaches. Good players in the NBA will win a lot of games regardless of coach, sure, but when a good team with a good coach can game plan against you for a 7 game series, if you don't have a good coach you are very likely going down. I can count on one hand the number of champions coached by a middling/medicocre coach over the last 30 years.

**Brock Landers** · 09-23-2022, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

As far as post-season success, NBA coaches are definitely not overrated. There's a reason Miami is consistently good. There's a reason the Warriors went from playoff team to world champs when they changed coaches. Good players in the NBA will win a lot of games regardless of coach, sure, but when a good team with a good coach can game plan against you for a 7 game series, if you don't have a good coach you are very likely going down. I can count on one hand the number of champions coached by a middling/medicocre coach over the last 30 years.

Celtics 2008

**Danno** · 09-23-2022, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Brock Landers

Celtics 2008

Doc was one of the few on my list, lol.
Bucks 2021 (though Bud has improved, he still is mediocre at adjusting)
Celtics 2008

Arguably Lakers 2020 and Cavs 2016, but I think Lue and Vogel are excellent coaches, and in any event Vogel's team was clearly the better team in 2020, it would have taken a coaching catastrophe to fuck that up.

Not sure who else in the last 30 years. Heck, there aren't many even on the losing side: maybe Monty Williams, Scott Brooks, Doc, Mike Brown, Avery Johnson, Byron Scott.