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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by greenmachine View Post
    Looking at Enforcer (100/104), Solly Stance 102, Fischer Ranger 102 FR, Mantra (m5/102), BC Justice, Mindbender 99TI, Rustler 10, kore 99, wildcat 101

    Who can help me understand the difference with these skis?
    Greenmachine, I compared a few of these skis in the 177-180 lengths on the Sooth comparator:
    https://compareskis.shinyapps.io/com...=%22Compare%22

    You can easily compare the ski geometries using this tool. You can easily see that the Mantra M5 will ski longer than all of the other skis, and that the Rustler 10 have a very long tail rocker which might explain the lack of stability described. You can also get zoomed views of the tips and tails on the comparator.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	386287


    You can also compare average bending and torsional stiffnesses:

    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	378 
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ID:	386288

    We typically think that increased bending stiffness will increase the speed limit of a ski (i.e., more pressure on the tip/tail, assuming the tip/tail touch the snow!) and also how much it snakes across the terrain or pushes you out of moguls. Torsional stiffness increases the precision / edge hold of a ski, but decreases it playfulness (but you also need to consider the rocker length to get the full picture... if the tip/tail are up in the air, the ski will be playful and won't hold much). Note that these are average values, the full distribution might also influence the behaviour of the ski (e.g., torsionnaly stiff tips are great for edge hold on ice... but the tail stiffness is not as important).

    Finally, you can look at the base area (often related to float) vs its weight. The ratio of the two gives you an idea of its internal construction. The lower the ratio, the more it is a piste ski with a lot of rubber, titanal, heavy wood, etc. The more it will feel like a tank with a good suspension. The higher the ratio, the more it is a backcountry / skimo ski.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2021-09-22 at 10.02.36 PM.png 
Views:	379 
Size:	215.5 KB 
ID:	386289


    We have 2000+ skis in the database. Feel free to look for other lengths, not all models are scaling the same with length.

    If you know what specs you are looking for (i.e., waist, sidecut radius, mass, stiffnesses), you can use the search fonction of the comparator to get a short list of skis that fit your criteria. We wrote a short tutorial here on how to use that function: https://soothski.com/compare-skis-wi...ication-guide/. Once you have a short list, you can review the detailed information of each ski.

    We will add 2022 skis shortly.

    Hope this helps!

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Moose, Iowa
    Posts
    7,048
    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeMagnet View Post
    Much as i'd suggest a enforcer as well; while being a decent enough stick, they just feel 'dead' in the sense of being dead simple to use. Any tourist can strap in and feel invincible 'plowing' through chop at 15MPH without immediately eating shit in their permanent backseat, which is why they bloat the "performance rental" inventories on this continent (or at least the ones i've seen). But it's a master-of-none deal, and they don't have a plus attribute to stand out above other damper skis like the [carving] Mantra, [ultra-light swing weight] Ranger, or [50/50ness] Rustler. So anyone can run them and feel good about their smaller wallet, but I guarantee they would be happier on something more in-tune with their ability and style.
    So you are taking a shit on the 104's because they are great skis that don't punish you for getting out of sorts? They are 100ish under and a compromise by design. I think they get the compromise about right. True they can't haul ass through choppy crud at 45 mph with impunity but for something so versatile they hold their own on the groomers at speed.

    The Rustler 10 has nothing on them. They are garbage. I don't really think they should be considered here as others have stated.

    Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    6,386
    Quote Originally Posted by alude View Post
    Greenmachine, I compared a few of these skis in the 177-180 lengths on the Sooth comparator:
    https://compareskis.shinyapps.io/com...=%22Compare%22

    You can easily compare the ski geometries using this tool. You can easily see that the Mantra M5 will ski longer than all of the other skis, and that the Rustler 10 have a very long tail rocker which might explain the lack of stability described. You can also get zoomed views of the tips and tails on the comparator.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2021-09-22 at 9.54.37 PM.png 
Views:	379 
Size:	162.1 KB 
ID:	386287


    You can also compare average bending and torsional stiffnesses:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2021-09-22 at 9.58.31 PM.png 
Views:	378 
Size:	220.3 KB 
ID:	386288

    We typically think that increased bending stiffness will increase the speed limit of a ski (i.e., more pressure on the tip/tail, assuming the tip/tail touch the snow!) and also how much it snakes across the terrain or pushes you out of moguls. Torsional stiffness increases the precision / edge hold of a ski, but decreases it playfulness (but you also need to consider the rocker length to get the full picture... if the tip/tail are up in the air, the ski will be playful and won't hold much). Note that these are average values, the full distribution might also influence the behaviour of the ski (e.g., torsionnaly stiff tips are great for edge hold on ice... but the tail stiffness is not as important).

    Finally, you can look at the base area (often related to float) vs its weight. The ratio of the two gives you an idea of its internal construction. The lower the ratio, the more it is a piste ski with a lot of rubber, titanal, heavy wood, etc. The more it will feel like a tank with a good suspension. The higher the ratio, the more it is a backcountry / skimo ski.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2021-09-22 at 10.02.36 PM.png 
Views:	379 
Size:	215.5 KB 
ID:	386289


    We have 2000+ skis in the database. Feel free to look for other lengths, not all models are scaling the same with length.

    If you know what specs you are looking for (i.e., waist, sidecut radius, mass, stiffnesses), you can use the search fonction of the comparator to get a short list of skis that fit your criteria. We wrote a short tutorial here on how to use that function: https://soothski.com/compare-skis-wi...ication-guide/. Once you have a short list, you can review the detailed information of each ski.

    We will add 2022 skis shortly.

    Hope this helps!
    Um, this is kick ass. You need to start a new thread to build awareness of this tool.
    life ain't guaranteed, love your people while you can

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gaperville, CO
    Posts
    4,856
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    Um, this is kick ass. You need to start a new thread to build awareness of this tool.
    Yeah, no shit. This is hella dope.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    557
    great feedback Northway. thx.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    557
    Quote Originally Posted by alude View Post
    Greenmachine, I compared a few of these skis in the 177-180 lengths on the Sooth comparator:
    https://compareskis.shinyapps.io/com...=%22Compare%22

    You can easily compare the ski geometries using this tool. You can easily see that the Mantra M5 will ski longer than all of the other skis, and that the Rustler 10 have a very long tail rocker which might explain the lack of stability described. You can also get zoomed views of the tips and tails on the comparator.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2021-09-22 at 9.54.37 PM.png 
Views:	379 
Size:	162.1 KB 
ID:	386287


    You can also compare average bending and torsional stiffnesses:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2021-09-22 at 9.58.31 PM.png 
Views:	378 
Size:	220.3 KB 
ID:	386288

    We typically think that increased bending stiffness will increase the speed limit of a ski (i.e., more pressure on the tip/tail, assuming the tip/tail touch the snow!) and also how much it snakes across the terrain or pushes you out of moguls. Torsional stiffness increases the precision / edge hold of a ski, but decreases it playfulness (but you also need to consider the rocker length to get the full picture... if the tip/tail are up in the air, the ski will be playful and won't hold much). Note that these are average values, the full distribution might also influence the behaviour of the ski (e.g., torsionnaly stiff tips are great for edge hold on ice... but the tail stiffness is not as important).

    Finally, you can look at the base area (often related to float) vs its weight. The ratio of the two gives you an idea of its internal construction. The lower the ratio, the more it is a piste ski with a lot of rubber, titanal, heavy wood, etc. The more it will feel like a tank with a good suspension. The higher the ratio, the more it is a backcountry / skimo ski.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2021-09-22 at 10.02.36 PM.png 
Views:	379 
Size:	215.5 KB 
ID:	386289


    We have 2000+ skis in the database. Feel free to look for other lengths, not all models are scaling the same with length.

    If you know what specs you are looking for (i.e., waist, sidecut radius, mass, stiffnesses), you can use the search fonction of the comparator to get a short list of skis that fit your criteria. We wrote a short tutorial here on how to use that function: https://soothski.com/compare-skis-wi...ication-guide/. Once you have a short list, you can review the detailed information of each ski.

    We will add 2022 skis shortly.

    Hope this helps!
    wow. thx.! Ill check it out.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by uglymoney View Post
    So you are taking a shit on the 104's because they are great skis that don't punish you for getting out of sorts? They are 100ish under and a compromise by design. I think they get the compromise about right. True they can't haul ass through choppy crud at 45 mph with impunity but for something so versatile they hold their own on the groomers at speed.

    The Rustler 10 has nothing on them. They are garbage. I don't really think they should be considered here as others have stated.

    Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk
    Point out the shit-talking and i'll own it. All I said was as you mentioned, the Enforcer is a compromise that agrees with everyone but is not a perfect fit for anyone looking to min-max their ski. Translating that to my experience with them, they felt too 'safe' and didn't let me push my limits in aspects other skis did, and with a swing weight and stiffness that denies a sense of playfulness. Hence, the lack of a rec for this lad. If anything saying a ski "Makes jerry think he's Candide/FWT/[insert pro here]" is praise. Besides that, calling the rustler a better fit for a 50/50 is about all the praise i'll ever give it.
    Last edited by SnakeMagnet; 09-22-2021 at 09:56 PM.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    2,305
    I was gonna suggest the Wildcat 101 but if you already had PB&Js you know the deal with them since it's essentially the same ski, though they have improved over the years. I always considered myself a fast directional skier who needed the stiffest burliest rippingest skis but I've fallen in love with the Bibby/Wildcat/PBJ shape. It still charges as well as I want it to yet opens up a new dimension of playfulness which has helped my skills a ton. It was my daily driver all last season and will continue to be this season plus I've had older Bibby Pros for 8 years that will have to be yanked out of my cold dead hands. I actually was gonna get the WC 108 as well but that felt kinda ridiculous to have all three so I got some MVP 108s as a close alternative for a little more float. So yeah I'm a fanboy for this shape but if you like it stick with it (within reason)
    Quote Originally Posted by other grskier View Post
    well, in the three years i've been skiing i bet i can ski most anything those 'pro's' i listed can, probably

  9. #34
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    557
    These guys do a pretty good job.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKE0ryG2fhI

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    ahead
    Posts
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by greenmachine View Post
    These guys do a pretty good job.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKE0ryG2fhI
    Only problem is that they barely know how to ski

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,701

    Front Side 96-104 ski for hardpack, crud, chalk , steeps, groomers

    Itís Stowe. There isnít a steep line in sight. No need for pole plants?

    They seem to mostly know what theyíre talking about. Maybe thatís shop talk. They donít ever really seem to dislike anything, though.

    They are unbiased. And pretty much only talk facts. Iíll give them that. They are the only guys really releasing regular discussion vids. And they have me convinced that they have actually skied everything on their wall. Thatís probably the most refreshing take-away.
    Last edited by gaijin; 09-24-2021 at 06:01 PM.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    They don’t ever really seem to dislike anything, though.
    It's incredibly hard for the pros to fuck up when making a ski these days. So much R&D goes into design and millions are at stake for the big ones. You would have to go out of your way to deliberately make a ski bad. The difference between 'ok', 'good', and 'great' comes down to how well it does what it is made for. And a 'failure' would be a ski that doesn't work for its intended market; i.e. set out to do one thing and ends up doing another. Unless doing a comparison between skis, you'd find it hard to outright dislike anything too.

    I didn't say it was impossible though, because the Pinnacle exists.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    the most beautiful place in the whole wide world
    Posts
    2,146
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    Um, this is kick ass. You need to start a new thread to build awareness of this tool.
    this. incredible effort. data nerds rejoice. thanks for build this alude! I'm sure it is/was a labor of love.

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