Front Side 96-104 ski for hardpack, crud, chalk , steeps, groomers

[alude]

Looking at Enforcer (100/104), Solly Stance 102, Fischer Ranger 102 FR, Mantra (m5/102), BC Justice, Mindbender 99TI, Rustler 10, kore 99, wildcat 101

Who can help me understand the difference with these skis?

Greenmachine, I compared a few of these skis in the 177-180 lengths on the Sooth comparator:
https://compareskis.shinyapps.io/com...=%22Compare%22

You can easily compare the ski geometries using this tool. You can easily see that the Mantra M5 will ski longer than all of the other skis, and that the Rustler 10 have a very long tail rocker which might explain the lack of stability described. You can also get zoomed views of the tips and tails on the comparator.

You can also compare average bending and torsional stiffnesses:

We typically think that increased bending stiffness will increase the speed limit of a ski (i.e., more pressure on the tip/tail, assuming the tip/tail touch the snow!) and also how much it snakes across the terrain or pushes you out of moguls. Torsional stiffness increases the precision / edge hold of a ski, but decreases it playfulness (but you also need to consider the rocker length to get the full picture... if the tip/tail are up in the air, the ski will be playful and won't hold much). Note that these are average values, the full distribution might also influence the behaviour of the ski (e.g., torsionnaly stiff tips are great for edge hold on ice... but the tail stiffness is not as important).

Finally, you can look at the base area (often related to float) vs its weight. The ratio of the two gives you an idea of its internal construction. The lower the ratio, the more it is a piste ski with a lot of rubber, titanal, heavy wood, etc. The more it will feel like a tank with a good suspension. The higher the ratio, the more it is a backcountry / skimo ski.

We have 2000+ skis in the database. Feel free to look for other lengths, not all models are scaling the same with length.

If you know what specs you are looking for (i.e., waist, sidecut radius, mass, stiffnesses), you can use the search fonction of the comparator to get a short list of skis that fit your criteria. We wrote a short tutorial here on how to use that function: https://soothski.com/compare-skis-wi...ication-guide/. Once you have a short list, you can review the detailed information of each ski.

We will add 2022 skis shortly.

Hope this helps!

[uglymoney]

Much as i'd suggest a enforcer as well; while being a decent enough stick, they just feel 'dead' in the sense of being dead simple to use. Any tourist can strap in and feel invincible 'plowing' through chop at 15MPH without immediately eating shit in their permanent backseat, which is why they bloat the "performance rental" inventories on this continent (or at least the ones i've seen). But it's a master-of-none deal, and they don't have a plus attribute to stand out above other damper skis like the [carving] Mantra, [ultra-light swing weight] Ranger, or [50/50ness] Rustler. So anyone can run them and feel good about their smaller wallet, but I guarantee they would be happier on something more in-tune with their ability and style.

So you are taking a shit on the 104's because they are great skis that don't punish you for getting out of sorts? They are 100ish under and a compromise by design. I think they get the compromise about right. True they can't haul ass through choppy crud at 45 mph with impunity but for something so versatile they hold their own on the groomers at speed.

The Rustler 10 has nothing on them. They are garbage. I don't really think they should be considered here as others have stated.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk

[Norseman]

Greenmachine, I compared a few of these skis in the 177-180 lengths on the Sooth comparator:
https://compareskis.shinyapps.io/com...=%22Compare%22

You can easily compare the ski geometries using this tool. You can easily see that the Mantra M5 will ski longer than all of the other skis, and that the Rustler 10 have a very long tail rocker which might explain the lack of stability described. You can also get zoomed views of the tips and tails on the comparator.

You can also compare average bending and torsional stiffnesses:

We typically think that increased bending stiffness will increase the speed limit of a ski (i.e., more pressure on the tip/tail, assuming the tip/tail touch the snow!) and also how much it snakes across the terrain or pushes you out of moguls. Torsional stiffness increases the precision / edge hold of a ski, but decreases it playfulness (but you also need to consider the rocker length to get the full picture... if the tip/tail are up in the air, the ski will be playful and won't hold much). Note that these are average values, the full distribution might also influence the behaviour of the ski (e.g., torsionnaly stiff tips are great for edge hold on ice... but the tail stiffness is not as important).

Finally, you can look at the base area (often related to float) vs its weight. The ratio of the two gives you an idea of its internal construction. The lower the ratio, the more it is a piste ski with a lot of rubber, titanal, heavy wood, etc. The more it will feel like a tank with a good suspension. The higher the ratio, the more it is a backcountry / skimo ski.

We have 2000+ skis in the database. Feel free to look for other lengths, not all models are scaling the same with length.

If you know what specs you are looking for (i.e., waist, sidecut radius, mass, stiffnesses), you can use the search fonction of the comparator to get a short list of skis that fit your criteria. We wrote a short tutorial here on how to use that function: https://soothski.com/compare-skis-wi...ication-guide/. Once you have a short list, you can review the detailed information of each ski.

We will add 2022 skis shortly.

Hope this helps!

Um, this is kick ass. You need to start a new thread to build awareness of this tool.

[doebedoe]

Um, this is kick ass. You need to start a new thread to build awareness of this tool.

Yeah, no shit. This is hella dope.

[greenmachine]

great feedback Northway. thx.

[greenmachine]

Greenmachine, I compared a few of these skis in the 177-180 lengths on the Sooth comparator:
https://compareskis.shinyapps.io/com...=%22Compare%22

You can easily compare the ski geometries using this tool. You can easily see that the Mantra M5 will ski longer than all of the other skis, and that the Rustler 10 have a very long tail rocker which might explain the lack of stability described. You can also get zoomed views of the tips and tails on the comparator.

You can also compare average bending and torsional stiffnesses:

We typically think that increased bending stiffness will increase the speed limit of a ski (i.e., more pressure on the tip/tail, assuming the tip/tail touch the snow!) and also how much it snakes across the terrain or pushes you out of moguls. Torsional stiffness increases the precision / edge hold of a ski, but decreases it playfulness (but you also need to consider the rocker length to get the full picture... if the tip/tail are up in the air, the ski will be playful and won't hold much). Note that these are average values, the full distribution might also influence the behaviour of the ski (e.g., torsionnaly stiff tips are great for edge hold on ice... but the tail stiffness is not as important).

Finally, you can look at the base area (often related to float) vs its weight. The ratio of the two gives you an idea of its internal construction. The lower the ratio, the more it is a piste ski with a lot of rubber, titanal, heavy wood, etc. The more it will feel like a tank with a good suspension. The higher the ratio, the more it is a backcountry / skimo ski.

We have 2000+ skis in the database. Feel free to look for other lengths, not all models are scaling the same with length.

If you know what specs you are looking for (i.e., waist, sidecut radius, mass, stiffnesses), you can use the search fonction of the comparator to get a short list of skis that fit your criteria. We wrote a short tutorial here on how to use that function: https://soothski.com/compare-skis-wi...ication-guide/. Once you have a short list, you can review the detailed information of each ski.

We will add 2022 skis shortly.

Hope this helps!

wow. thx.! Ill check it out.

[SnakeMagnet]

So you are taking a shit on the 104's because they are great skis that don't punish you for getting out of sorts? They are 100ish under and a compromise by design. I think they get the compromise about right. True they can't haul ass through choppy crud at 45 mph with impunity but for something so versatile they hold their own on the groomers at speed.

The Rustler 10 has nothing on them. They are garbage. I don't really think they should be considered here as others have stated.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk

Point out the shit-talking and i'll own it. All I said was as you mentioned, the Enforcer is a compromise that agrees with everyone but is not a perfect fit for anyone looking to min-max their ski. Translating that to my experience with them, they felt too 'safe' and didn't let me push my limits in aspects other skis did, and with a swing weight and stiffness that denies a sense of playfulness. Hence, the lack of a rec for this lad. If anything saying a ski "Makes jerry think he's Candide/FWT/[insert pro here]" is praise. Besides that, calling the rustler a better fit for a 50/50 is about all the praise i'll ever give it.

[Wes Mantooth]

I was gonna suggest the Wildcat 101 but if you already had PB&Js you know the deal with them since it's essentially the same ski, though they have improved over the years. I always considered myself a fast directional skier who needed the stiffest burliest rippingest skis but I've fallen in love with the Bibby/Wildcat/PBJ shape. It still charges as well as I want it to yet opens up a new dimension of playfulness which has helped my skills a ton. It was my daily driver all last season and will continue to be this season plus I've had older Bibby Pros for 8 years that will have to be yanked out of my cold dead hands. I actually was gonna get the WC 108 as well but that felt kinda ridiculous to have all three so I got some MVP 108s as a close alternative for a little more float. So yeah I'm a fanboy for this shape but if you like it stick with it (within reason)

[greenmachine]

These guys do a pretty good job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKE0ryG2fhI

[VON]

These guys do a pretty good job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKE0ryG2fhI

Only problem is that they barely know how to ski

[gaijin]

It’s Stowe. There isn’t a steep line in sight. No need for pole plants?

They seem to mostly know what they’re talking about. Maybe that’s shop talk. They don’t ever really seem to dislike anything, though.

They are unbiased. And pretty much only talk facts. I’ll give them that. They are the only guys really releasing regular discussion vids. And they have me convinced that they have actually skied everything on their wall. That’s probably the most refreshing take-away.

[SnakeMagnet]

They don’t ever really seem to dislike anything, though.

It's incredibly hard for the pros to fuck up when making a ski these days. So much R&D goes into design and millions are at stake for the big ones. You would have to go out of your way to deliberately make a ski bad. The difference between 'ok', 'good', and 'great' comes down to how well it does what it is made for. And a 'failure' would be a ski that doesn't work for its intended market; i.e. set out to do one thing and ends up doing another. Unless doing a comparison between skis, you'd find it hard to outright dislike anything too.

I didn't say it was impossible though, because the Pinnacle exists.

[chaka]

Um, this is kick ass. You need to start a new thread to build awareness of this tool.

this. incredible effort. data nerds rejoice. thanks for build this alude! I'm sure it is/was a labor of love.

[s_curran]

Can anyone compare the ranger 99ti vs the 102 fr? I know the fr should be more playfull, but say there was a better deal on the 99ti, might you go with that? I'm 210lb 6'4". Mostly at the resort with these but will have a 106 waist soft snow ski with shifts as well (ripstick or blaze). Although I live in VT, these skis will travel. Sort of feel like the 102 fr might be the ski for me, butttt, I dont know, I do like stiffer skis generally, but im assuming the 102's would be more versatile in this two ski quiver.

[JayPowHound]

Praxis 9d8

[tenB]

Can anyone compare the ranger 99ti vs the 102 fr? I know the fr should be more playfull, but say there was a better deal on the 99ti, might you go with that? I'm 210lb 6'4". Mostly at the resort with these but will have a 106 waist soft snow ski with shifts as well (ripstick or blaze). Although I live in VT, these skis will travel. Sort of feel like the 102 fr might be the ski for me, butttt, I dont know, I do like stiffer skis generally, but im assuming the 102's would be more versatile in this two ski quiver.

I have a lot of days on the Ranger 102 and its a very fun and versatile ski. It’s easy to ski all day long, and it’s equal parts playful and carving charger. The tips on them are really thin though, and I have found I can cave them in on super tight arcs at speed if I push on them too much. Easily corrected with a more centered stance, but it is a consideration for heavier stronger skiers.

Also, the 102 does not ski ice or hard chalk well. The tip is too wide for an ice ripper, it just grips to too hard across the fall line, even detuned. Probably the result of having metal in a ski with a very small turn radius. But, on anything you can get an edge in, the 102 rips. It’s fun in powder too up to 6” and can dad turn all day with very little effort.

My daily driver is a commander 108, 188 for comparison. It has significantly more energy than the Ranger 102 and is a much more powerful ski in varied terrain while still being pretty playful.

[kc_7777]

I have the Elan Ripstick 96 Black Edition and the Enforcer 104 in this spot in my quiver. I also (briefly) owned the Volkl M102 last year.

The M102 was great for skiing really really really fast. When skiing fast is possible. But I found the M102 to be a bit of an asshole in really sketchy spots….where maneuverability was more important and necessary versus speed. Eg in those “no fall” zones….where you can’t “mach it” cause it’s so steep/rocky/tight/cliffy/dangerous.

If I skied a flatter hill, with no high alpine terrain, or if I did more than 1-2 groomer runs in a day, then I may have kept the M102s. As I also find that even on no-new snow days, we’re off piste in the trees (Eg Fraggle on Blackcomb) and the M102 was work. The E104 is easy. Guess I’m lazy. Or smart.

So its funny to me how the E104 is looked down upon above, and the reason given was it is so easy to ski for everyone. That’s messed up? Who cares if shitty skiers find it easy. Shouldn’t that mean all of us awesome skiers find it super easy. So we can ski harder? That’s what I really appreciate when I’m on my E104s. You can push yourself because the ski is so predicable, stable and maneuverable…and easy to ski. You give up some top end speed on the groomers back to the lift but don’t care.

The Ripstick 96 Black Edition is my only ”flattish” tailed ski. Only 3 days on it at end of last season. It rips (and is damp) for how light it is. Great on chalky steeps.

And I’ve always wanted to own a Fischer Ranger 102FR…. probably would if it came in 179-180cm. Pink for sure.

Also interesting is the bad press the Rustler 10 gets? I have the R11. Great ski. Surprising the R10 seems so different. Have they made any changes to the most current R10? Most of the R10 bad press seems a few years old.

KC

[Bandit Man]

I have the Elan Ripstick 96 Black Edition and the Enforcer 104 in this spot in my quiver. I also (briefly) owned the Volkl M102 last year.

The M102 was great for skiing really really really fast. When skiing fast is possible. But I found the M102 to be a bit of an asshole in really sketchy spots….where maneuverability was more important and necessary versus speed. Eg in those “no fall” zones….where you can’t “mach it” cause it’s so steep/rocky/tight/cliffy/dangerous.

If I skied a flatter hill, with no high alpine terrain, or if I did more than 1-2 groomer runs in a day, then I may have kept the M102s. As I also find that even on no-new snow days, we’re off piste in the trees (Eg Fraggle on Blackcomb) and the M102 was work. The E104 is easy. Guess I’m lazy. Or smart.

So its funny to me how the E104 is looked down upon above, and the reason given was it is so easy to ski for everyone. That’s messed up? Who cares if shitty skiers find it easy. Shouldn’t that mean all of us awesome skiers find it super easy. So we can ski harder? That’s what I really appreciate when I’m on my E104s. You can push yourself because the ski is so predicable, stable and maneuverable…and easy to ski. You give up some top end speed on the groomers back to the lift but don’t care.

The Ripstick 96 Black Edition is my only ”flattish” tailed ski. Only 3 days on it at end of last season. It rips (and is damp) for how light it is. Great on chalky steeps.

And I’ve always wanted to own a Fischer Ranger 102FR…. probably would if it came in 179-180cm. Pink for sure.

Also interesting is the bad press the Rustler 10 gets? I have the R11. Great ski. Surprising the R10 seems so different. Have they made any changes to the most current R10? Most of the R10 bad press seems a few years old.

KC

KC...I really like what you have to say about the M102 vs E104. I fell in love with the M102 in Blackcomb glacier where 6-8" of snow sat on top of some mostly soft variable conditions. At 200-lbs, the M102 provided the heft to manage the variable, stability to let them run a bit, more than enough edge hold in dicey spots, and was still maneuverable. And I think that my weight is the key. My 155-lb son skied the 186 E104 in the same conditions and had no complaints. To him, they were the perfect tool for the conditions. And I think that is where the E104 gets a "bad wrap" with some skiers who like to ski hard all the time. The ski has a speed limit and there it isn't super damp for it's weight. But, change those things and you loose what makes it so good and so fun. I still think that the M102 and E104 are two of the best all-mtn skis on the market today. If you have either in the quiver, you have a tool to cover most conditions.

[Huskier]

Ipicked up a pair of Mindbender 90ti last season

Same. I can't say it's my favorite ski, but handles the ugly end of the spectrum (bulletproof, refrozen dog shit) very well. Exactly what I got them for