UT/WY Missing Persons Case>WILD

[ill-advised strategy]

Simple minds crave the facile devil vs angel narrative.
There’s a big hungry market for that approach.
Ex: Nancy Grace is worth $25,000,000.00 behind years of that bullshit.

I have no use for it, but I have to make peace with the fact that it’s a feature of our species, and it’s not going away any time soon.

[mb6f50]

Yeah, when my wife's car ran her over a couple of years ago, once she was loaded up in the ambulance the cop's first questions to me were all basically, "why did you run her over?" and shit like that. I was so pissed. If she hadn't been conscious so we could both say the same thing, that the car was in neutral, not park, I don't know how many more questions I would have answered before deciding I better lawyer up since I was clearly guilty until proven innocent, not the other way around.

The reason the cops look to the husband/boyfriend when women are injured, assaulted, murdered, found dead is because most of the time the husband/boyfriend did it.

I can empathize with it adding trauma to an already traumatic situation and agree that it doesn't feel good, but its nessicary.

[Danno]

Umm no. That is the attitude that women in abusive relationships face. That attitude, that is extremely prevalent in our society is one of the reason women get stuck with abusers. Its one of the reasons Gabby was murdered rather than helped.

People were more concerned about not inconveniencing Brian than seeing if maybe there was a reason Gabby was so upset.

And anyone supporting Gabby was a hysterical woman, too.

And yet, TGR consistently falls short in your eyes, to you it continues to be a reflection of what is wrong in society, yet you keep coming back. Why is that? Is TGR your abuser, and you're stuck with it, you can't escape the cycle?

[jono]

Umm no. That is the attitude that women in abusive relationships face. That attitude, that is extremely prevalent in our society is one of the reason women get stuck with abusers. Its one of the reasons Gabby was murdered rather than helped.

People were more concerned about not inconveniencing Brian than seeing if maybe there was a reason Gabby was so upset.

And anyone supporting Gabby was a hysterical woman, too.

Your statement here makes no sense in the context of what you quoted. Which was my point: you're not paying attention or really reading anything, you're just throwing shit and repeating yourself. It's boring and it distracts from any point you try to make.

Which seemed to be the point Mustonen was making about some article. Did you write it?

[mb6f50]

Your statement here makes no sense in the context of what you quoted. Which was my point: you're not paying attention or really reading anything, you're just throwing shit and repeating yourself. It's boring and it distracts from any point you try to make.

Which seemed to be the point Mustonen was making about some article. Did you write it?

What doesn't make sense?

The cops pulled a guy over driving erratically with a "hysterical" woman when there had been reports that the guy was hitting the woman.

The consensus was that the cops were just hassling him. The woman was crazy, poor guy.

Then the woman was murdered by said guy and hind site 20/20 is claimed.

But does anyone think he never hurt her before he killed her? Killing her was his first act of violence against her?

And now we defend him against being "diminished" in a stupid tabloid article.

[jono]

What doesn't make sense?

Scroll up and read it. You may need to click the previous page number, that's just to the left of the current one, which is on the right. Start with where you claimed that IAS's post was especially telling after she was murdered. Think about how that would work. You're claiming you can garner some insight into his thinking based on events that were not known at the time but now are. Then read my response to that where I explained that to you.

Or, just carry on misunderstanding everything and getting really pissed about the evil thoughts of all the strawmen (and women?) you keep imagining.

[mb6f50]

Scroll up and read it. You may need to click the previous page number, that's just to the left of the current one, which is on the right. Start with where you claimed that IAS's post was especially telling after she was murdered. Think about how that would work. You're claiming you can garner some insight into his thinking based on events that were not known at the time but now are. Then read my response to that where I explained that to you.

Or, just carry on misunderstanding everything and getting really pissed about the evil thoughts of all the strawmen (and women?) you keep imagining.

No. Im claiming that his attitude that the cop was hassling a normal guy who was taxed with dealing with a "hysterical woman" in that situation is one that is very prevalent among white men when faced with similar situations. That attitude is one of the main reasons why women don't ask for help and/or get help even when they have encounters with law enforcement.

Brian tells Gabby she sucks all the time, cops put her in the cop car, suggest she committed a crime, joke around with Brian and get him a hotel room.

That attitude gets women killed.

How could Gabby say I need help when she's going to face that attitude?

[ill-advised strategy]

This is one of my favorite quotes from this thread. It's especially telling after the normal guy kills the hysterical woman.

And then they question why she stayed with him.

In that video I had an easier time identifying with the normal guy getting fucked with by police than with the hysterical woman. I’m not prepared to go through life with this idea that whenever a woman is visibly upset with a man, that’s a clear precursor to him murdering her. In this case, that would have been correct, but I think it’s an outlier.
That’s just my opinion, which is worth fuckall.

If that setup happened in front of me, without police involved, at a campground or gas station or something, I’d likely tell those two that they really need some time and space from each other and this attempt at living in a tiny van should be over. But I dunno, unwinding that toxic relationship dynamic that cooked up such a gruesome outcome might have taken a lot more than just getting them out of the tiny van and/or apart for awhile.
That’s just my opinion, which is worth fuckall.

I think it’s an easy thing to hindsight that once a murder has happened, that the murderer’s character was principally defined by murderousness, that murdering was an inevitable outcome of his existence. To me, that’s an absurdly simplistic take on any human being (surely there are some some real monstrous exceptions). Here, I tend to look more at the situation as a whole and speculate that putting two mental cases in a tiny pressure-cooker is the defining catalyst of this particular mess.
That’s just my opinion, which is worth fuckall.

Let’s say we extract the two from the situation and from each other. It’s possible they both go on to live normal happy lives because the main problem here was some glitch in their dynamics with each other and/or the van lifestyle. Or, it’s possible she goes on to live a normal happy life while he goes on to abusive problematic relationships with others and maybe a different murder. Or, it’s possible he goes on to live a normal happy life and she goes on to more abusive relationships and instability and drama, even possibly getting killed by a different guy. Or, it’s possible she goes on to more trouble in her own way, and he also goes on to more trouble in his own way…with God knows what outcomes. In my view any of those would have been possible, I’m not able to just confidently pick one of those and feel sure about it, because I’m not down with assigning “he’s a demon and she’s an Angel” style thinking to this.
That’s just my opinion, which is worth fuckall.

That’s all I have to say, this is exhausting and sad. Mentally, I’m more and more inclined toward isolation. The more I learn about life and people, the less I enjoy both.

[mb6f50]

In that video I had an easier time identifying with the normal guy getting fucked with by police than with the hysterical woman. I’m not prepared to go through life with this idea that whenever a woman is visibly upset with a man, that’s a clear precursor to him murdering her. In this case, that would have been correct, but I think it’s an outlier.
That’s just my opinion, which is worth fuckall.

If that setup happened in front of me, without police involved, at a campground or gas station or something, I’d likely tell those two that they really need some time and space from each other and this attempt at living in a tiny van should be over. But I dunno, unwinding that toxic relationship dynamic that cooked up such a gruesome outcome might have taken a lot more than just getting them out of the tiny van and/or apart for awhile.
That’s just my opinion, which is worth fuckall.

I think it’s an easy thing to hindsight that once a murder has happened, that the murderer’s character was principally defined by murderousness, that murdering was an inevitable outcome of his existence. To me, that’s an absurdly simplistic take on any human being (surely there are some some real monstrous exceptions). Here, I tend to look more at the situation as a whole and speculate that putting two mental cases in a tiny pressure-cooker is the defining catalyst of this particular mess.
That’s just my opinion, which is worth fuckall.

Let’s say we extract the two from the situation and from each other. It’s possible they both go on to live normal happy lives because the main problem here was some glitch in their dynamics with each other and/or the van lifestyle. Or, it’s possible she goes on to live a normal happy life while he goes on to abusive problematic relationships with others and maybe a different murder. Or, it’s possible he goes on to live a normal happy life and she goes on to more abusive relationships and instability and drama, even possibly getting killed by a different guy. Or, it’s possible she goes on to more trouble in her own way, and he also goes on to more trouble in his own way…with God knows what outcomes. In my view any of those would have been possible, I’m not able to just confidently pick one of those and feel sure about it, because I’m not down with assigning “he’s a demon and she’s an Angel” style thinking to this.
That’s just my opinion, which is worth fuckall.

That’s all I have to say, this is exhausting and sad. Mentally, I’m more and more inclined toward isolation. The more I learn about life and people, the less I enjoy both.

In this situation, you ignore that there were reports that he was hitting her, he was driving erratically and she was extremely upset.

I dont think it should be assumed in all situations like the one above that the man is going to murder the woman, either.

What I do think, though, is that something is very wrong and needs to be investigated.
"Diminishing" Gabby by calling her hysterical is something that is common, and it contributes to her inability to leave Brian and/or seek help.

She is acting like a textbook abuse victim in that video.

Still, if she won't speak up and ask for help, I understand there may be little law enforcement can do. In this situation they could have had a domestic violence counselor cone talk to her while Brian was in his hotel room.

Still, the real problem is the attitude that she is hysterical, she's partially at fault, Brian is a regular guy dealing with a crazy women hurts all women. It makes it wsy harder to speak out. It makes people like Gabby fear they won't be believed. If she spoke out and wasn't believed and protected what would happen then?

And your words above, putting them both at fault for a "pressure cooker" relationship that ended badly and maybe if they spilt Brian could have went on to have a good life? Seriously, WTF.

You are putting the responsibility for her murder on her? How many times have people asked, why didn't she just leave him? Faulting her for whatever reasons she couldn't, be it insecurities, fear, or love for a flawed human being. She stuck.

Why didn't HE leave before he murdered her? He is solely responsible for murdering a young woman for no identifiable reason. There is no excuse. He killed himself so there can be no redemption.

Women do not deserve to be abused or killed. Period. Men do not get to say the woman was partially at fault because she had mental health issues or nagged him, or was annoying or "hysterical".

You walk away before you hurt another human.

[Mustonen]

In this situation, you ignore that there were reports that he was hitting her, he was driving erratically and she was extremely upset.

I dont think it should be assumed in all situations like the one above that the man is going to murder the woman, either.

What I do think, though, is that something is very wrong and needs to be investigated.
"Diminishing" Gabby by calling her hysterical is something that is common, and it contributes to her inability to leave Brian and/or seek help.

She is acting like a textbook abuse victim in that video.

Still, if she won't speak up and ask for help, I understand there may be little law enforcement can do. In this situation they could have had a domestic violence counselor cone talk to her while Brian was in his hotel room.

Still, the real problem is the attitude that she is hysterical, she's partially at fault, Brian is a regular guy dealing with a crazy women hurts all women. It makes it wsy harder to speak out. It makes people like Gabby fear they won't be believed. If she spoke out and wasn't believed and protected what would happen then?

And your words above, putting them both at fault for a "pressure cooker" relationship that ended badly and maybe if they spilt Brian could have went on to have a good life? Seriously, WTF.

You are putting the responsibility for her murder on her? How many times have people asked, why didn't she just leave him? Faulting her for whatever reasons she couldn't, be it insecurities, fear, or love for a flawed human being. She stuck.

Why didn't HE leave before he murdered her? He is solely responsible for murdering a young woman for no identifiable reason. There is no excuse. He killed himself so there can be no redemption.

Women do not deserve to be abused or killed. Period. Men do not get to say the woman was partially at fault because she had mental health issues or nagged him, or was annoying or "hysterical".

You walk away before you hurt another human.

Nobody is ignoring shit.

As to the rest of your post, who are you even talking to? What message do you want (somebody???) to be left with?

Or is your post just rhetorical and abstruse?

[mb6f50]

Oh, and he killed her, so yeah. She gets to be an angel. People who knew and loved her and anyone else gets to think of her as an angel if they want.

And "diminish" her killer all they want.

Women are afraid men will kill them, men are afraid women will laugh at them.

Brian killed Gabby. Let's laugh at him.

[Mustonen]

Keep swinging, sport. Brian is a piece of shit. You’re playing with yourself.

[ill-advised strategy]

You (mseries) have assimilated a set of false dichotomies around abusive relationships where once there is abuse it’s entirely about the male. I think people are more complicated than that. I tend to catalog factors as opposed to engaging in a fault-finding process. The two may appear the same to you but thats because you’re applying your fault-finding processes and ranking of fault onto my identification of multiple factors. My identifying a given factor shouldn’t imply it’s the only factor, or the prime factor, or the top of some ranking I’ve produced. For better or worse, that’s just not how my mind works.

I’ve seen this in firefighting after-action-review processes too…where, in a dynamic situation, there might be 8 links in a given chain of events, any of which might have changed the bad outcome…and some will focus solely on elements that avoid criticism of victims’ choices, others will focus solely on those choice points…I tend to view the whole thing as a whole thing with any number of factors, each of which could have broken the chain.

Again, this argument is mentally exhausting, kind of feel like I’m wasting a Saturday with this. Gonna leave you all to it now and try to wash my mind out with motorcycling. Let’s all try to avoid murdering or getting murdered out there today, go team.

[mb6f50]

Keep swinging, sport. Brian is a piece of shit. You’re playing with yourself.

Oh really? Someone doesn't think he was a piece of shit..

Let’s say we extract the two from the situation and from each other. It’s possible they both go on to live normal happy lives because the main problem here was some glitch in their dynamics with each other and/or the van lifestyle.

Just a "glitch in their dynamics"...

[mb6f50]

You (mseries) have assimilated a set of false dichotomies around abusive relationships where once there is abuse it’s entirely about the male. I think people are more complicated than that. I tend to catalog factors as opposed to engaging in a fault-finding process. The two may appear the same to you but thats because you’re applying your fault-finding processes and ranking of fault onto my identification of multiple factors. My identifying a given factor shouldn’t imply it’s the only factor, or the prime factor, or the top of some ranking I’ve produced. For better or worse, that’s just not how my mind works.

Well that's a fucked up, word salad way of saying some people deserve to be abused? Killed?

Fuck you.

Your take on domestic violence is interesting, considering your history. I dont understand why you need to justify abuse. Its never ok.

[Mustonen]

Well that's a fucked up, word salad way of saying some people deserve to be abused? Killed?

Fuck you.

Your take on domestic violence is interesting, considering your history. I dont understand why you need to justify abuse. Its never ok.

Hahaha. Accusing somebody else of word salad.

Nobody is justifying abuse or even defending Brian here, you’re just not smart and can’t read good.

[ill-advised strategy]

Fuck you.

Yeah that’s about right. Fuck me.

[TBS]

Well that's a fucked up, word salad way of saying some people deserve to be abused? Killed?

Fuck you.

Your take on domestic violence is interesting, considering your history. I dont understand why you need to justify abuse. Its never ok.

You are a fucking moron
Shut the fuck up
Go away

[mcski]

Hahaha. Accusing somebody else of word salad.

Nobody is justifying abuse or even defending Brian here, you’re just not smart and can’t read good.

This. It took about 2 paragraphs to recognize the writer behind this circle jerk.

There aren’t many better writers / thinkers on the trg than IAS

[SumJongGuy]

Was that Mountain Girl again? I'm betting yes..

[jono]

No

[BobMc]

Yes

[TBS]

Yup, sure reads like Mtngirl v3 to me…

[::: :::]

Seems like the former TBSSUX troll that’s been banned in various subsequent forms…

[jono]

Seems like the former TBSSUX troll that’s been banned in various subsequent forms…

Minus the food recs lately. I keep telling him to stick to what he knows.