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  1. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikesalot View Post
    I mean, I think times are changing and that stuff has lessened in society, but not as fast on the TRG. There's surprisingly a lot of men here who sound like they believe some of the things they say.
    They're passing it on to their kids, trust me. The misogynistic bullshit my teenage girls deal with every day from boys in their high school classes is jaw-dropping. You could say these boys are just being stupid kids, but they are learning it somewhere, and my money is on good ol' dad. My dad never behaved or treated my mom that way, and as a result I don't either. But I have learned from my girls that kind of thinking is alive and well in America today. It's infuriating to me that they have to deal with it.

  2. #677
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    UT/WY Missing Persons Case>WILD

    [QUOTE=MTT;
    Or was she just bad news and tormented him into violence?
    23 years old living with mom and dad
    Does not have good coping skills

    The story about him threatening to leave her afoot. That’s a line I would never cross. Just the threat of doing that. I find very cruel.[/QUOTE]

    I appreciate your looking at this and trying to learn/understand. One thing we need to all learn, and correct when we hear it, is that “she made him turn to violence.”. Abusers (carefully trying not to say just men) need to fucking control themselves and NOT be violent. Often they are control freaks and start with verbal and emotional abuse then leading to physical abuse. If someone finds themselves needing to control another person, they need to take a hard look at themselves.
    Last edited by hikesalot; 09-22-2021 at 04:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by My Pet Powder Goat View Post
    Come for the poo-slinging, Save a fortune on a plumber.

  3. #678
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    Another thing I saw on YouTube

    There was a panel of bodylaungage. Experts. Analyze the police video
    They said lots of things. Two things interesting to me
    Brian interaction with police. They suggested he has had lots of interaction with police. He knew how to act what to say to polished. Could mean lots of things

    Gabby. - body language she was not afraid just upset because she was just in a pretty serious fight
    And then they started talking about daddy issues. They were speculating that she had grown up in a very controlling environment. She would do anything to not be back in that environment
    She would likely try to be in control of everything in her environment

    They seemed to spend a good bit of time on that
    Own your fail. ~Jer~

  4. #679
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    Although there has been no mention of it, I always wonder if there are underlying substance abuse issues that contribute to some of these tragedies.

    They had to cross the Midwest to get to Utah and WY... maybe one (or both?) picked up a habit along the way?

  5. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    They're passing it on to their kids, trust me. The misogynistic bullshit my teenage girls deal with every day from boys in their high school classes is jaw-dropping. You could say these boys are just being stupid kids, but they are learning it somewhere, and my money is on good ol' dad. My dad never behaved or treated my mom that way, and as a result I don't either. But I have learned from my girls that kind of thinking is alive and well in America today. It's infuriating to me that they have to deal with it.
    You’re living in Bozeman right? Did you grow up there? Did your dad grow up there?

    If that’s asking too much kindly tell me to fuck off, but I’m kind of curious if it aligns with my own experiences.

  6. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    They're passing it on to their kids, trust me. The misogynistic bullshit my teenage girls deal with every day from boys in their high school classes is jaw-dropping. You could say these boys are just being stupid kids, but they are learning it somewhere, and my money is on good ol' dad. My dad never behaved or treated my mom that way, and as a result I don't either. But I have learned from my girls that kind of thinking is alive and well in America today. It's infuriating to me that they have to deal with it.
    And they can read it here every day on the ski forum their dad's participate in, or in most other internet hangouts.

    Clearly TGR is very loosely moderated and they seem to let all kinds of stupid, trollish, ugly and hateful shit go unchecked.
    So without direct action from the forum "owners" It ​takes the will and action of the participants to change the tone of a forum, first by calling out BS when it occurs, making it known it will be called out in the future and is unacceptable, being consistent and evenhanded then slowly the overall tone of misogyny/racism/homophobia, whatever should subside.
    If there are bad actors who continue to stir shit in the face of the majority will for decency, petition/pressure the mods to remove them.

  7. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
    Although there has been no mention of it, I always wonder if there are underlying substance abuse issues that contribute to some of these tragedies.

    They had to cross the Midwest to get to Utah and WY... maybe one (or both?) picked up a habit along the way?
    Or the trip was to get away from it
    They both looked pretty healthy to me. Not drinking an drugging
    Own your fail. ~Jer~

  8. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTT View Post
    Or the trip was to get away from it
    They both looked pretty healthy to me. Not drinking an drugging
    They look a little methy to me.
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  9. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush View Post
    They look a little methy to me.
    That could explain driving 2600 miles in two days

    But I don’t see that. But most of what I saw were staged poses. You noticed not a single bad picture of them on the TV
    Own your fail. ~Jer~

  10. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by heckacali View Post
    And they can read it here every day on the ski forum their dad's participate in, or in most other internet hangouts.

    Clearly TGR is very loosely moderated and they seem to let all kinds of stupid, trollish, ugly and hateful shit go unchecked.
    So without direct action from the forum "owners" It ​takes the will and action of the participants to change the tone of a forum, first by calling out BS when it occurs, making it known it will be called out in the future and is unacceptable, being consistent and evenhanded then slowly the overall tone of misogyny/racism/homophobia, whatever should subside.
    If there are bad actors who continue to stir shit in the face of the majority will for decency, petition/pressure the mods to remove them.
    Careful. You'll get yourself banned for talking like that...

  11. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShortLong View Post
    You guys aren't getting it. I'm adding to the call out in the hope some will get it. Go read up on abusive relationships and domestic violence. Understanding is how we stop this shit going forward.
    Try to keep up:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Simmer down. The ridicule statement was specific to Danno saying it was OK to ridicule men being dragged around by their balls to take IG snaps. This is not hypothetical, see post #151. It's worth pointing out that it's weird that ridiculing these guys is OK--I suspect that joking about it would not go over as well if the gender roles were reversed.

    As to the second part, I sure as hell never said she deserved to be abused. No one does, ever, period. It's true that being consumed with anything could conceivably blind you to being in an abusive relationship, but actively curating an online presence that directly hinges on portraying your relationship as healthy and loving is definitely more likely to create a self-delusional state that blinds you to reality.
    Quote Originally Posted by hikesalot View Post
    I hear you, was wondering if I “read” ur post right. Seemed off from ur normal and I was sorta in shock. I can chill now

  12. #687
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    I was prolly incorrect...
    Quote Originally Posted by EZB View Post
    Someone asked about the 911 caller. He left his number, and one of the cops while at the traffic stop spoke to him contemporaneously.[snip]
    (...and MultiVerse and ml242 are also wondering about this).

    https://abc7ny.com/gabby-petito-disa...drie/11036257/

    I'm now convinced the witness who the one cop phoned mid-traffic-stop-encounter...was NOT the 911 witness but the other one in the link. It's also quite possible that the cop then misunderstood/miscommunicated that (there were two) to the other cops.

    BTW which witness's info is more alarming? 20/20 hindsight and all, if I were a cop and pondering the coulda/woulda/shoulda then I'da wished I'd subtly and in a build-up sorta way...
    Asked the GF about these control issues the BF had!

    "Ma'am, when you talk to your parents (she actually called them from the PD car), what are some of the things you confide to them that are stressors caused by BF?" Etc. Like someone else wrote, BF demanding to control the car keys, the money, and both of their phones is extremely unhealthy. Too bad the cops didn't really know this. Her parents might not have known this.

    Additionally, it would motivate her to stealthily have a second key and a secret phone, but he better not find out.

  13. #688
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    Dr Phil will be doing a show on her today. What a vulture.

  14. #689
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Yes, I'm wondering if you can speak more to what it looks like to be in her situation and what the challenges are (similar to the heuristic traps we know from avi-talk) that get in the way of safer decision-making. You've done so already to some extent, but I'd be very interested if you (and/or Mtngrl) can expand on that in less speculative ways (i.e. not necessarily specific to this girl we don't know, if you have better examples, etc).

    ETA: and if not, that's totally understandable. I'm not expecting everyone to be as open as IAS and obviously if you don't have something specific on this that's cool, too. Just saying that if you do it would be interesting to hear.
    I can.

    It starts with a victim that already has a low self esteem, or perhaps, past trauma. Maybe someone just going through a rough spot, maybe.

    Usually, emotionally healthy people run long before entanglement.

    Anyways, the abuser comes on super strong. Maybey they shower with complements. Maybe they solve some major problems for the victim. Either way, they start off treating the abused in a way that makes them feel really good in ways they aren't use to.

    Once they have the victim, and it is debatable if they even do this consciously, probably some do, some don't, but they start withholding and/or hurting.

    Maybe they dont answer the phone for 5 days when you use to talk every day. Maybe they insult you in some way they know will be hurtful. It usually starts small and if you call them on it they gaslight, get pissed, start a fight, escalate, etc but usually in a way that is super triggering to their victim.

    The best manipulater is inconsistant reward. It makes people crazy. So after the blow out they will be super nice again but as time goes on the abuse gets worse and the nice less frequent.

    While this is going on they are also isolating the person from their friends and family. Ususlly the friends and family see through the abusers bullshit before the victim and that starts driving the wedge...

    Obviously, toxic relationships are usually the result of two people acting in unhealthy ways, but you ever notice how some people never have the crazy ex? They run before they sink their teeth in.

    And once the violence starts it doesn't matter how crazy the non violent one is...

  15. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Post first, then smoke crack.
    He's too busy sighting his pistol on his TV.....
    What we have here is an intelligence failure. You may be familiar with staring directly at that when shaving. .
    -Ottime
    One man can only push so many boulders up hills at one time.
    -BMillsSkier

  16. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by The SnowShow View Post
    Dr Phil will be doing a show on her today. What a vulture.
    Agree I can’t change the channel fast enough when I hear his voice
    Own your fail. ~Jer~

  17. #692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salvelinusconfluentus View Post
    I can.

    It starts with a victim that already has a low self esteem, or perhaps, past trauma. Maybe someone just going through a rough spot, maybe.

    Usually, emotionally healthy people run long before entanglement.

    Anyways, the abuser comes on super strong. Maybey they shower with complements. Maybe they solve some major problems for the victim. Either way, they start off treating the abused in a way that makes them feel really good in ways they aren't use to.

    Once they have the victim, and it is debatable if they even do this consciously, probably some do, some don't, but they start withholding and/or hurting.

    Maybe they dont answer the phone for 5 days when you use to talk every day. Maybe they insult you in some way they know will be hurtful. It usually starts small and if you call them on it they gaslight, get pissed, start a fight, escalate, etc but usually in a way that is super triggering to their victim.

    The best manipulater is inconsistant reward. It makes people crazy. So after the blow out they will be super nice again but as time goes on the abuse gets worse and the nice less frequent.

    While this is going on they are also isolating the person from their friends and family. Ususlly the friends and family see through the abusers bullshit before the victim and that starts driving the wedge...

    Obviously, toxic relationships are usually the result of two people acting in unhealthy ways, but you ever notice how some people never have the crazy ex? They run before they sink their teeth in.

    And once the violence starts it doesn't matter how crazy the non violent one is...

    Not trying to go too far into this or let my history of subjective feelings about the poster influence my comment here:


    It is legitimate that "intermittent" reinforcement of a behavior is a very strong method of making the behavior more likely to continue to occur.

    There are a LOT of other factors discussed, but when you break it down to "this=that" you have a point.

    Behavioral science has your back on this one, so rock on MtnG.

  18. #693
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    I'm sorry, but the "M" word is getting thrown around here a lot. Let's go to Webster's:
    mi·sog·y·ny
    /məˈsäjənē/
    Learn to pronounce
    noun
    dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.
    "she felt she was struggling against thinly disguised misogyny"

    Can anyone please cite a post in this thread that meets the above? Besides the Kraken.
    What we have here is an intelligence failure. You may be familiar with staring directly at that when shaving. .
    -Ottime
    One man can only push so many boulders up hills at one time.
    -BMillsSkier

  19. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salvelinusconfluentus View Post

    And once the violence starts it doesn't matter how crazy the non violent one is...
    Ok, that's where the story starts, though, isn't it? I mean, if a person doesn't have the radar or the self-awareness to spot that level of crazy at a distance, they might not see it coming before violence starts (or maybe another unacceptable threshold is crossed?) So once that happens, what stops a person from running? What makes it impossible to take advantage of any opening?

    I'm not sure this is unique to women as much as to victims of past abuse, but either way.

  20. #695
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTT View Post
    Hey I’m working! And have have a tournament next week. So yes lots of that in the evening
    ......
    What we have here is an intelligence failure. You may be familiar with staring directly at that when shaving. .
    -Ottime
    One man can only push so many boulders up hills at one time.
    -BMillsSkier

  21. #696
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    This is kind of in the vein of seano's question, though not an answer to it. My YouTube fu sucks today or I'd find a clip, but here's a pretty accurate assessment of the male world (offered for Mtngrl, but also because it's funny). Tom Papa (from You're Doing Great, Netflix):

    "But you know what? Honestly, I like that she’s a mean girl. I like it. What are we saying? You know? Girls should be tough. If it means being called mean, so what? It’s scary out there. Yeah, she’s tough. Go ahead. She’s got to go out there and meet men… Gotta meet men! Ugh! Gotta bring men home, big hairy men. Ugh! Who knew? Who knew that men were so awful? Who knew? I think the women knew. I think the women knew.

    [whooping, applause]

    Yeah, I think you knew. We had no idea. I feel bad. We should have been looking out for you. We had no… Regular guys did not know that these guys were out there. And we know a lot of secrets. We didn’t know these guys were so bad. Think of the psychotic narcissism of these men, that your hello when you meet a woman for the first time is to reach into your pants, take out your worst part… and present it to her, like it’s an award she’d be happy to receive. That’s a psychopath. I’ve been married 19 years. When I take my pants off, lights are out. Curtains drawn… I’m under the covers. I don’t even want to see it. I’m like, “I’m sorry, honey. By law, you have to take a look.”

    But it’s good. It’s a great thing that’s happened. We’re correcting it, we’re getting rid of horrible people. We’re changing the workplace. It’s a positive thing. I was worried about my daughters. I was, I was like, “How am I going to teach them… how awful men are?” You know? “How are they going to know how bad guys can be?” I’m the only man in their life, and I’m pretty great. Especially to them. I was a week and a half away from just smashing a glass at the dinner table… and then Harvey Weinstein rode in like a hero…"

    For all the negative characterizations of male-dominated conversations, in reality the outliers know their level of freak is more likely to be met with an ass-kicking than acceptance. So they practice their facade on us. Maybe that makes them better at fooling cops? IDK. In any case, we're not in their side and that's why there's a massive and often justifiable backlash against the idea that men are all participating in "rape culture" and the like. Not that that hasn't happened--see Russians in Berlin, 1945. But if American exceptionalism is worth anything it is that we expect better from ourselves (and each other) than that. If you're going to challenge that idea be prepared for extreme backlash. Whether it's justified or not will depend on your ability to hear the specific people you're talking to rather than some projected/typical persona.

  22. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
    They had to cross the Midwest to get to Utah and WY... maybe one (or both?) picked up a habit along the way?
    I know it's a boring drive, but it's not that bad.

  23. #698
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
    so rock on MtnG.
    So, is this a segue back in to the discussion of the criteria for "doxing"?
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  24. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    I know it's a boring drive, but it's not that bad.
    Stop trying to normalize

  25. #700
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    The things we subject ourselves to
    Own your fail. ~Jer~

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