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  1. #376
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    Iíve stated earlier in this thread, had a buddy die to heat stroke on a job. Was face down in a ditch next to his car. Was heading to the car to get more water. I believe he was doing an archaeological construction monitoring job at the time.

    Iím agree with Bobís assessment.

    I live in the Sierra foothills. My sweetwater filter lives in my daypack from late spring through mid-fall. Iím always schleping a nearly full water bottle. But there have been times that my family are nearly out of water at the end of a day and back to our car. Water and hydration is a focus of my wife and I when out and about that we constantly try to bring home to the kids.

    The whole story is sad to me.

    I have separate complaints about the family owning several Airbnbís. At least where I live, thereís a large rental housing shortage due to owners selling their rental homes, displacing the occupants, which then become Airbnbís.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    I have separate complaints about the family owning several Airbnb’s. At least where I live, there’s a large rental housing shortage due to owners selling their rental homes, displacing the occupants, which then become Airbnb’s.
    That article sure didn't waste any words painting the parents as unlikable people. (not sticking up for their actions, but damn, way to treat people after a tragic demise)

  3. #378
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    Guessing what happened is silly

    I'll guess what it was like since everyone else is bit of stumbling minor confusion kinda like being high or drunk aliitle off aliitle silly then one of the two adults starts going sideways feels sick to their stomach heada hurts blurred vision one tells the other it's ok we are almost there but that one is starting to feel it they move on picking up the pace coaching one another dry heaves set in then the other one feels the effects of the beating mid day sun lack of water they try to be strong but their mind isn't connecting with their feet anymore or anything for that matter but the fantasy of leaving behind the grind and becoming an outdoors person is eating what's left of their psyche absolute panic and a fear set in consuming any last bit of hope and energy they have as blurred vision becomes the norm the dryness in the mouth puking with nothing to throw up soon blindness sets in only those who have lost a child would know what those last feels in their minds were like as if every thing seems dream like a panic that gives way to a serenity with the last question we all want to know did the baby or the dog die last both much more resilient than an adult

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    Guessing what happened is silly

    I'll guess what it was like since everyone else is bit of stumbling minor confusion kinda like being high or drunk aliitle off aliitle silly then one of the two adults starts going sideways feels sick to their stomach heada hurts blurred vision one tells the other it's ok we are almost there but that one is starting to feel it they move on picking up the pace coaching one another dry heaves set in then the other one feels the effects of the beating mid day sun lack of water they try to be strong but their mind isn't connecting with their feet anymore or anything for that matter but the fantasy of leaving behind the grind and becoming an outdoors person is eating what's left of their psyche absolute panic and a fear set in consuming any last bit of hope and energy they have as blurred vision becomes the norm the dryness in the mouth puking with nothing to throw up soon blindness sets in only those who have lost a child would know what those last feels in their minds were like as if every thing seems dream like a panic that gives way to a serenity with the last question we all want to know did the baby or the dog die last both much more resilient than an adult
    Embracing your inner E.E. Cummings.

  5. #380
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    It’s a sad story on so many levels. As a Dad with a two and four year old we love to take them out in packs (four year old has started getting out of the pack more often than not) on some of the more “known” hikes in North Lake Tahoe and Yosemite. The scenario that went down for this family is the absolute nightmare scenario.

    Wife and I have been much more concerned about an injury to ourselves and the near impossible self evacuation with kiddos. I’d like to think that this tragedy may save a life, but the reality is that the majority of inexperienced hikers will never hear about this and those that do, won’t learn from it.

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    Guessing what happened is silly

    I'll guess what it was like since everyone else is bit of stumbling minor confusion kinda like being high or drunk aliitle off aliitle silly then one of the two adults starts going sideways feels sick to their stomach heada hurts blurred vision one tells the other it's ok we are almost there but that one is starting to feel it they move on picking up the pace coaching one another dry heaves set in then the other one feels the effects of the beating mid day sun lack of water they try to be strong but their mind isn't connecting with their feet anymore or anything for that matter but the fantasy of leaving behind the grind and becoming an outdoors person is eating what's left of their psyche absolute panic and a fear set in consuming any last bit of hope and energy they have as blurred vision becomes the norm the dryness in the mouth puking with nothing to throw up soon blindness sets in only those who have lost a child would know what those last feels in their minds were like as if every thing seems dream like a panic that gives way to a serenity with the last question we all want to know did the baby or the dog die last both much more resilient than an adult
    I'm going with the baby being in distress first.. That's why they died trying to make a mad dash for the car instead of the stream.

    Our first child died at birth.. I'd NEVER even consider taking a kid under 3 on any kind of expedition like that. We did plenty of outdoorsy stuff with the other two kids but always shook my head when I saw people hiking 5 miles out with an infant..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  7. #382
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    Mysterious death of entire family while hiking

    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    I'm going with the baby being in distress first.. That's why they died trying to make a mad dash for the car instead of the stream.

    Our first child died at birth.. I'd NEVER even consider taking a kid under 3 on any kind of expedition like that. We did plenty of outdoorsy stuff with the other two kids but always shook my head when I saw people hiking 5 miles out with an infant..
    Sorry to hear about this.


    Itís funny. I hiked so much more when my kid was a baby using the Osprey pack, up and down mountains for miles and miles those things are great. But I ALWAYS checked the weather and trail reports first.

    Then once she became too big to fit in the pack our hikes drastically reduced to like 2 mile mostly flat loops and got super boring

    Sounds like this guy did this hike before and was loving his new outdoorsman wanna be life. Problem is nature will kick your ass if you arenít prepared.

    Dude didnít even check the weather report. Who would hike with a baby and wife and not even check the weather? Idiot.


    Or maybe he did check the weather and thought it would be fine?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  8. #383
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    I mentioned it before, but the upside-down nature of the hike is significant. Even experienced people normally go up on fresh legs when it's cool and down when it's hot. Up feels harder but down is where most of the muscle damage happens so you are much more tired for climb than you think will be. An upside down hike is much harder than one with the same mileage/vert where you climb first.

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    Guessing what happened is silly

    I'll guess what it was like since everyone else is bit of stumbling minor confusion kinda like being high or drunk aliitle off aliitle silly then one of the two adults starts going sideways feels sick to their stomach heada hurts blurred vision one tells the other it's ok we are almost there but that one is starting to feel it they move on picking up the pace coaching one another dry heaves set in then the other one feels the effects of the beating mid day sun lack of water they try to be strong but their mind isn't connecting with their feet anymore or anything for that matter but the fantasy of leaving behind the grind and becoming an outdoors person is eating what's left of their psyche absolute panic and a fear set in consuming any last bit of hope and energy they have as blurred vision becomes the norm the dryness in the mouth puking with nothing to throw up soon blindness sets in only those who have lost a child would know what those last feels in their minds were like as if every thing seems dream like a panic that gives way to a serenity with the last question we all want to know did the baby or the dog die last both much more resilient than an adult
    That's how I felt trying to read your post.

  10. #385
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    Ill prepared, ill equipped, and inexperienced. With an infant.

    What a sad and tragic story. Not the first, and unfortunately not likely to be the last.

  11. #386
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    MMQB is fun and perhaps the living learn a lesson. Thing is we're human. Life is short and uncertain. Most of us most of the time do what seems reasonable to us. Sometimes it's not enough. Plenty of close calls in this thread. Many of these close calls are celebrations of living another day, often good stories. It's tough for me to condemn another whose close call was too close. Could be in the mountains. Could be at the keyboard. Adventure calls and we answer - as we are, knowing it may be too little, confident we're better for answering.

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47bp View Post
    Dude didnít even check the weather report. Who would hike with a baby and wife and not even check the weather? Idiot.
    TGR Forums
    This. Whatís the temp at the start? Finish temp? Whatís the climb like? Sunny or overcast? How much water should we bring? Are there water sources on the route to filter?

    And thatís just me dealing with a wife and kids whoís comfort range is approximately from 71 to 73 degrees. No way in hell Iím dragging them out on a hike when itís 90+.

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShortLong View Post
    MMQB is fun and perhaps the living learn a lesson. Thing is we're human. Life is short and uncertain. Most of us most of the time do what seems reasonable to us. Sometimes it's not enough. Plenty of close calls in this thread. Many of these close calls are celebrations of living another day, often good stories. It's tough for me to condemn another whose close call was too close. Could be in the mountains. Could be at the keyboard. Adventure calls and we answer - as we are, knowing it may be too little, confident we're better for answering.
    Yup. This poor couple was in the prime of their life, celebrating their success's. The number of people we associate with, that have skirted such disaster by far closer a margin than most of us are willing to admit, would be staggering to the TGR family crowd.

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCMtnHound View Post
    The number of people we associate with, that have skirted such disaster by far closer a margin than most of us are willing to admit, would be staggering to the TGR family crowd.
    Totally. I know I've run out of water on hikes before with no water sources. It's why when you go to a place like the Grand Canyon they hammer on it every chance they get that you need to be properly prepared before heading out and to not underestimate the effects of heat on the human body.

  15. #390
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    This summer my commute took me along a stretch of the Columbia river--once a week I'd stop and run down one of the steep draws (about 600' vert) to the river, swim, and then run back up to the car.

    They're were a few days when the air temp was just over 100f that the climb back out felt downright dangerous, even after the cool swim at the bottom. The combination of direct solar exposure, radiant heat from the ground, and convection from the air add up to something a whole lot worse than the mid 100s air temp.

    Seems like they loved and cared for that baby, so I'm thinking mom and dad were completely ignorant.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  16. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShortLong View Post
    MMQB is fun and perhaps the living learn a lesson. Thing is we're human. Life is short and uncertain. Most of us most of the time do what seems reasonable to us. Sometimes it's not enough. Plenty of close calls in this thread. Many of these close calls are celebrations of living another day, often good stories. It's tough for me to condemn another whose close call was too close. Could be in the mountains. Could be at the keyboard. Adventure calls and we answer - as we are, knowing it may be too little, confident we're better for answering.
    Yeah, this. I think a lot of what I have going for me is that I've been lucky enough to have done vast amounts of irresponsible shit involving hypothermia, heat exhaustion, muscle glycogen depletion, altitude sickness, mid-wilderness shin-splints, getting ledged out, etc etc etc somehow never tragically. Which I like to think makes me a little less likely to be completely ambushed by them again (e.g.: peakbagging on the Sierra crest, "hey, I recognize this mental state, I'd better get my ass down to a lower elevation pronto", and so another mountain trip where I find more than I seek instead of stranded alone with HACE).

  17. #392
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    Mysterious death of entire family while hiking

    Iíve been trying to impress upon my kid that backcountry incidents are not usually a single big mistake. Itís a bunch of little ones that add up to lock you into the outcome.

    Hiking with their infant - usually ok but creates less room for error

    Not the right gear - water filter, communication device.

    Not fully aware of the coming high temperatures as the day went on

    Not enough water

    Not enough formula

    Sticking together too long instead of sending for help

    Trying to hike out instead of waiting for cooler temps

    Not turning around when things went south

    Remove any two of those decisions, or even one, and they are ok. Itís terrible and itís awful it happened.

    Itís usually a bunch of little decisions, not one huge one, that does it. See the off ramps when they come up. Thatís sometimes hard to do. Can happen to any of us.

  18. #393
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    Required viewing.
    I see hydraulic turtles.

  19. #394
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    I was an idiot. Decided to pitch out the north ridge of lone pine peak. Ran out of water 3/4 of the way up. Forced bivy. Summited the next day, got trolled into a sucker gully and got cliffed out 2/3 down. Had to death scree/talus the way back up, bivy again. Next day, completely psychedelic, saw a bighorn and followed him down the next gully, haven eaten my black lips 2 days before and jumped in the lake. Was a bad bad bad day alpine climb. The mileage I covered was uncountable, and my brain has only been drained that hard twice more since.

    Went back a few years later and did it in like 10 hours.

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    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  20. #395
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    Although I now have a masters and a career in a completly different field, stories like this are a good reminder of why I "wasted" my 5 years of undergrad on an Outdoor Ed degree.

    Risk management is thoroughly involved in my thought patterns before any wilderness trip.

    Sorry to hear of this tragedy, people who find outdoor travel later in life have a steep learning curve

  21. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by EWG View Post
    I’ve been trying to impress upon my kid that backcountry incidents are not usually a single big mistake. It’s a bunch of little ones that add up to lock you into the outcome.
    Or sometimes, amidst all the little mistakes, there's one particular mistake that's huge, but doesn't seem particularly consequential at the time that it's made. Or, a big mistake that doesn't seem like a decision at all because at the time it seemed like the only choice, because you weren't in trouble yet and so weren't considering out-of-the-box options (well of course we're heading up because that's where the car is; and of course we aren't refilling on [almost certainly safe] water at the river because we don't have a filter).

    One problem with the "sunk cost fallacy" is that it isn't entirely a fallacy. Once you embark upon Option A, the (perhaps underestimated) cost of completing Option A steadily decreases, while the costs of other options that you're proceeding to leave behind likely increase. Even if you receive new information (uh-oh we're out of water and heat-affected) that leads you to conclude that Option A wasn't the best choice, given that you've invested in it with partial payoff, continuing with Option A may still seem to be (or may actually be) the best course of action.

    And so... As you said, "see the off ramps", but also, know when you're about to enter a stretch that doesn't have good off-ramps, and give that seemingly straightforward decision some extra thought.

  22. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
    Although I now have a masters and a career in a completly different field, stories like this are a good reminder of why I "wasted" my 5 years of undergrad on an Outdoor Ed degree.

    Risk management is thoroughly involved in my thought patterns before any wilderness trip.

    Sorry to hear of this tragedy, people who find outdoor travel later in life have a steep learning curve
    This is one of the reasons why all adults going on a Scouts BSA high adventure expedition are require to complete a basic wilderness survival and a basic wilderness first aid program.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  23. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    Guessing what happened is silly

    I'll guess what it was like since everyone else is bit of stumbling minor confusion kinda like being high or drunk aliitle off aliitle silly then one of the two adults starts going sideways feels sick to their stomach heada hurts blurred vision one tells the other it's ok we are almost there but that one is starting to feel it they move on picking up the pace coaching one another dry heaves set in then the other one feels the effects of the beating mid day sun lack of water they try to be strong but their mind isn't connecting with their feet anymore or anything for that matter but the fantasy of leaving behind the grind and becoming an outdoors person is eating what's left of their psyche absolute panic and a fear set in consuming any last bit of hope and energy they have as blurred vision becomes the norm the dryness in the mouth puking with nothing to throw up soon blindness sets in only those who have lost a child would know what those last feels in their minds were like as if every thing seems dream like a panic that gives way to a serenity with the last question we all want to know did the baby or the dog die last both much more resilient than an adult
    Hey man, here's some punctuation for ya if you're a little short.

    ......
    ,,,
    !!
    ?
    '

  24. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaleia View Post
    Hey man, here's some punctuation for ya if you're a little short.

    ......
    ,,,
    !!
    ?
    '
    He could always borrow some from Ski J

  25. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaleia View Post
    Hey man, here's some punctuation for ya if you're a little short.

    ......
    ,,,
    !!
    ?
    '
    shits over rated ski town bar talk doesn't punctuate it talks
    that stuff is for college educated people who want to think they are smarter than everyone else
    death is a bitch punctionation is for punters

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