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12-03-2021, 06:42 PM #376
I’ve stated earlier in this thread, had a buddy die to heat stroke on a job. Was face down in a ditch next to his car. Was heading to the car to get more water. I believe he was doing an archaeological construction monitoring job at the time.
I’m agree with Bob’s assessment.
I live in the Sierra foothills. My sweetwater filter lives in my daypack from late spring through mid-fall. I’m always schleping a nearly full water bottle. But there have been times that my family are nearly out of water at the end of a day and back to our car. Water and hydration is a focus of my wife and I when out and about that we constantly try to bring home to the kids.
The whole story is sad to me.
I have separate complaints about the family owning several Airbnb’s. At least where I live, there’s a large rental housing shortage due to owners selling their rental homes, displacing the occupants, which then become Airbnb’s.
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12-03-2021, 08:11 PM #377
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12-03-2021, 08:18 PM #378Registered User
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Guessing what happened is silly
I'll guess what it was like since everyone else is bit of stumbling minor confusion kinda like being high or drunk aliitle off aliitle silly then one of the two adults starts going sideways feels sick to their stomach heada hurts blurred vision one tells the other it's ok we are almost there but that one is starting to feel it they move on picking up the pace coaching one another dry heaves set in then the other one feels the effects of the beating mid day sun lack of water they try to be strong but their mind isn't connecting with their feet anymore or anything for that matter but the fantasy of leaving behind the grind and becoming an outdoors person is eating what's left of their psyche absolute panic and a fear set in consuming any last bit of hope and energy they have as blurred vision becomes the norm the dryness in the mouth puking with nothing to throw up soon blindness sets in only those who have lost a child would know what those last feels in their minds were like as if every thing seems dream like a panic that gives way to a serenity with the last question we all want to know did the baby or the dog die last both much more resilient than an adult
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12-03-2021, 08:23 PM #379
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12-03-2021, 08:29 PM #380
It’s a sad story on so many levels. As a Dad with a two and four year old we love to take them out in packs (four year old has started getting out of the pack more often than not) on some of the more “known” hikes in North Lake Tahoe and Yosemite. The scenario that went down for this family is the absolute nightmare scenario.
Wife and I have been much more concerned about an injury to ourselves and the near impossible self evacuation with kiddos. I’d like to think that this tragedy may save a life, but the reality is that the majority of inexperienced hikers will never hear about this and those that do, won’t learn from it.
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12-03-2021, 08:32 PM #381
I'm going with the baby being in distress first.. That's why they died trying to make a mad dash for the car instead of the stream.
Our first child died at birth.. I'd NEVER even consider taking a kid under 3 on any kind of expedition like that. We did plenty of outdoorsy stuff with the other two kids but always shook my head when I saw people hiking 5 miles out with an infant..Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!
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12-03-2021, 09:09 PM #382
Mysterious death of entire family while hiking
Sorry to hear about this.
It’s funny. I hiked so much more when my kid was a baby using the Osprey pack, up and down mountains for miles and miles those things are great. But I ALWAYS checked the weather and trail reports first.
Then once she became too big to fit in the pack our hikes drastically reduced to like 2 mile mostly flat loops and got super boring
Sounds like this guy did this hike before and was loving his new outdoorsman wanna be life. Problem is nature will kick your ass if you aren’t prepared.
Dude didn’t even check the weather report. Who would hike with a baby and wife and not even check the weather? Idiot.
Or maybe he did check the weather and thought it would be fine?
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12-03-2021, 09:26 PM #383
I mentioned it before, but the upside-down nature of the hike is significant. Even experienced people normally go up on fresh legs when it's cool and down when it's hot. Up feels harder but down is where most of the muscle damage happens so you are much more tired for climb than you think will be. An upside down hike is much harder than one with the same mileage/vert where you climb first.
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12-03-2021, 09:40 PM #384
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12-03-2021, 09:42 PM #385
Ill prepared, ill equipped, and inexperienced. With an infant.
What a sad and tragic story. Not the first, and unfortunately not likely to be the last.
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12-03-2021, 10:00 PM #386click here
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MMQB is fun and perhaps the living learn a lesson. Thing is we're human. Life is short and uncertain. Most of us most of the time do what seems reasonable to us. Sometimes it's not enough. Plenty of close calls in this thread. Many of these close calls are celebrations of living another day, often good stories. It's tough for me to condemn another whose close call was too close. Could be in the mountains. Could be at the keyboard. Adventure calls and we answer - as we are, knowing it may be too little, confident we're better for answering.
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12-03-2021, 10:06 PM #387
This. What’s the temp at the start? Finish temp? What’s the climb like? Sunny or overcast? How much water should we bring? Are there water sources on the route to filter?
And that’s just me dealing with a wife and kids who’s comfort range is approximately from 71 to 73 degrees. No way in hell I’m dragging them out on a hike when it’s 90+.
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12-03-2021, 10:10 PM #388
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12-03-2021, 10:15 PM #389
Totally. I know I've run out of water on hikes before with no water sources. It's why when you go to a place like the Grand Canyon they hammer on it every chance they get that you need to be properly prepared before heading out and to not underestimate the effects of heat on the human body.
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12-03-2021, 10:24 PM #390
This summer my commute took me along a stretch of the Columbia river--once a week I'd stop and run down one of the steep draws (about 600' vert) to the river, swim, and then run back up to the car.
They're were a few days when the air temp was just over 100f that the climb back out felt downright dangerous, even after the cool swim at the bottom. The combination of direct solar exposure, radiant heat from the ground, and convection from the air add up to something a whole lot worse than the mid 100s air temp.
Seems like they loved and cared for that baby, so I'm thinking mom and dad were completely ignorant.
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12-03-2021, 10:26 PM #391
Yeah, this. I think a lot of what I have going for me is that I've been lucky enough to have done vast amounts of irresponsible shit involving hypothermia, heat exhaustion, muscle glycogen depletion, altitude sickness, mid-wilderness shin-splints, getting ledged out, etc etc etc somehow never tragically. Which I like to think makes me a little less likely to be completely ambushed by them again (e.g.: peakbagging on the Sierra crest, "hey, I recognize this mental state, I'd better get my ass down to a lower elevation pronto", and so another mountain trip where I find more than I seek instead of stranded alone with HACE).
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12-04-2021, 08:59 AM #392
Mysterious death of entire family while hiking
I’ve been trying to impress upon my kid that backcountry incidents are not usually a single big mistake. It’s a bunch of little ones that add up to lock you into the outcome.
Hiking with their infant - usually ok but creates less room for error
Not the right gear - water filter, communication device.
Not fully aware of the coming high temperatures as the day went on
Not enough water
Not enough formula
Sticking together too long instead of sending for help
Trying to hike out instead of waiting for cooler temps
Not turning around when things went south
Remove any two of those decisions, or even one, and they are ok. It’s terrible and it’s awful it happened.
It’s usually a bunch of little decisions, not one huge one, that does it. See the off ramps when they come up. That’s sometimes hard to do. Can happen to any of us.
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12-04-2021, 10:41 AM #393
Required viewing.I see hydraulic turtles.
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12-04-2021, 12:25 PM #394
I was an idiot. Decided to pitch out the north ridge of lone pine peak. Ran out of water 3/4 of the way up. Forced bivy. Summited the next day, got trolled into a sucker gully and got cliffed out 2/3 down. Had to death scree/talus the way back up, bivy again. Next day, completely psychedelic, saw a bighorn and followed him down the next gully, haven eaten my black lips 2 days before and jumped in the lake. Was a bad bad bad day alpine climb. The mileage I covered was uncountable, and my brain has only been drained that hard twice more since.
Went back a few years later and did it in like 10 hours.
Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague
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12-04-2021, 12:35 PM #395
Although I now have a masters and a career in a completly different field, stories like this are a good reminder of why I "wasted" my 5 years of undergrad on an Outdoor Ed degree.
Risk management is thoroughly involved in my thought patterns before any wilderness trip.
Sorry to hear of this tragedy, people who find outdoor travel later in life have a steep learning curve
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12-04-2021, 01:38 PM #396
Or sometimes, amidst all the little mistakes, there's one particular mistake that's huge, but doesn't seem particularly consequential at the time that it's made. Or, a big mistake that doesn't seem like a decision at all because at the time it seemed like the only choice, because you weren't in trouble yet and so weren't considering out-of-the-box options (well of course we're heading up because that's where the car is; and of course we aren't refilling on [almost certainly safe] water at the river because we don't have a filter).
One problem with the "sunk cost fallacy" is that it isn't entirely a fallacy. Once you embark upon Option A, the (perhaps underestimated) cost of completing Option A steadily decreases, while the costs of other options that you're proceeding to leave behind likely increase. Even if you receive new information (uh-oh we're out of water and heat-affected) that leads you to conclude that Option A wasn't the best choice, given that you've invested in it with partial payoff, continuing with Option A may still seem to be (or may actually be) the best course of action.
And so... As you said, "see the off ramps", but also, know when you're about to enter a stretch that doesn't have good off-ramps, and give that seemingly straightforward decision some extra thought.
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12-04-2021, 01:51 PM #397
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12-04-2021, 04:19 PM #398
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12-04-2021, 05:13 PM #399
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12-04-2021, 09:59 PM #400Registered User
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