Mysterious death of entire family while hiking

[jono]

That's how I felt trying to read your post.

we give fastfred a lot of fawning adulation around here but I think this might be the highest praise I've seen so far

[bodywhomper]

In terms of many of us and friends having close calls (I have my own stories of close calls that easily could have gone south), think of fogey.

[Cono Este]

Over thanksgiving, in AZ, I went for a desert hike. No hat, not enough water. My hands were swollen at the end. Never seen that before. I guess my core was trying to cool itself.


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[The AD]

Just read a new story about this. Pretty crazy they were in such dire straits and it wasn't even noon:
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...esperate-plea/

[AK47bp]

Crazy how they never called 911. Not that it would of helped but still.


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[jono]

Crazy how they never called 911. Not that it would of helped but still.

Never know. Maybe someone with a clear head and a tray full of cereal and tater triangles could have convinced them to go sit in the water.

[Dantheman]

Just read a new story about this. Pretty crazy they were in such dire straits and it wasn't even noon:
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...esperate-plea/

That would seem to be the definitive word on this story. As to how they were in lethal trouble before noon:

-In that area even late morning can be hot AF with August sun intensity and no shade.
-Ill prepared, should have started with at least double the water they were carrying.
-While they were not the type of people who ride motorized scooters around Walmart they were not well-trained athletes acclimated to exercising in the heat.
-This was a semi-serious hike at ~8 miles and ~2,000 vert. Also, I've hammered on this point before but it cannot be emphasized enough, it was an upside-down hike. They had to do the climb in the heat of the day when they had already used up most of their water and their legs were beat up from the descent.

[The AD]

Never know. Maybe someone with a clear head and a tray full of cereal and tater triangles could have convinced them to go sit in the water.

I'm guessing they were so incapacitated at that point they couldn't make it back to the water.

[evdog]

-In that area even late morning can be hot AF with August sun intensity and no shade.
-Ill prepared, should have started with at least double the water they were carrying.
-While they were not the type of people who ride motorized scooters around Walmart they were not well-trained athletes acclimated to exercising in the heat.
-This was a semi-serious hike at ~8 miles and ~2,000 vert. Also, I've hammered on this point before but it cannot be emphasized enough, it was an upside-down hike. They had to do the climb in the heat of the day when they had already used up most of their water and their legs were beat up from the descent.

Yeah seems crazy, but people get into trouble on hikes like that all the time. With a high of 109 it might have been above 80 already when they started.

We have a couple hikes here that are even shorter but people still get into trouble constantly requiring rescue, even on days when it's 80s and 90s. These are also upside down hikes to waterfalls, but only 1,000ft gain on the return trip and 4-6 miles return. The Forest Service has started closing these trails in the hottest months, part due to fire danger but mainly to protect people from themselves.

[Falcon3]

Yeah seems crazy, but people get into trouble on hikes like that all the time. With a high of 109 it might have been above 80 already when they started.

We have a couple hikes here that are even shorter but people still get into trouble constantly requiring rescue, even on days when it's 80s and 90s. These are also upside down hikes to waterfalls, but only 1,000ft gain on the return trip and 4-6 miles return. The Forest Service has started closing these trails in the hottest months, part due to fire danger but mainly to protect people from themselves.

Hot upside down hikes are definitely dangerous for the uninitiated. Grand Canyon has tons of Preventative SAR volunteers/rangers and it’s astounding how many idiots they turn around. Scores of tourists trying to hike to the bottom and back carrying a plastic grocery sack with maybe a Snickers and two-12oz bottles of water. Sure it’s 65 on the south rim but 95 at Phantom.

[waveshello]

They had to do the climb in the heat of the day when they had already used up most of their water and their legs were beat up from the descent.

You can bet that a good portion of that water was probably poured on the baby to try to keep it cool... Babies can't regulate their temperature as well as adults and if that baby was in a close fitting front pack or sling it wouldn't take much to overheat it, and it would be very hard to cool it down.

As a new father, I hate everything about this story. If my baby girl died out there in my arms I don't think I'd want to make it out.

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[waveshello]

This is almost too stupid to be funny...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ourist-rescued

"Officials said the man was happy to be rescued but complained about having to spend the night and being unable to find the portion of trail he was looking for. He told officials he had tried to call 911 several times but was unable to get through, and he was concerned about algae after drinking water from a nearby river. Medics treated him for “badly blistered feet and dehydration” before he drove off despite medical advice."

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[Bronco]

Sounds like an internet conspiracy theorist. "I'll figure out what really happened since the officials are clearly involved in a cover up"

[Dantheman]

Sounds like an internet conspiracy theorist. "I'll figure out what really happened since the officials are clearly involved in a cover up"

To be fair, he does seem to have accomplished that goal

[old goat]

The officials bear a little bit of the blame for initially describing the deaths as mysterious when there was a fairly obvious explanation that just needed confirmation--although to be fair I can't recall if it was officials who labeled the deaths mysterious or the media.

I'm always amused by people who think that googling something is "research". Galileo could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he had just googled "is the earth the center of the universe?"

[SumJongGuy]

I'm always amused by people who think that googling something is "research". Galileo could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he had just googled "is the earth the center of the universe?"

Wouldn't the old school equivalent of "research" i.e. going to the library have yielded the same results? Or are we really talking about scientific inquiry instead of "research"?

[ghosthop]

An academic library and google results are not the same thing.

[evdog]

I was in that area last month to look at trails we're considering using in a bikepacking route.


I hiked out Hite Cove trail along the river end of a mid 80's day. I can see how this canyon would cook on a 100+F day. Feels very remote. Near where I ended the hike at Hite Cove you can pick up an old 4x4 road and follow it along the far side of the river for a few miles. It is supposed to connect to the bottom of Savage Lundy Trail where the family died. The main trail I was on had gotten pretty overgrown toward the end and I could barely make out the old road. It's an old burn zone so there are downed trees on top of the brush as well.




I also took a look at the top of Savage Lundy trail. After a steep descent down a rutted out fire road this is the start of the trail. I pushed through until I got to a spot that was blocked by a couple downed trees. I'm not surprised people have trouble on a trail that is overgrown like this. I doubt the internet sleuth even tried it. Article said he was found on the Hite Cove OHV road which is the other trail that drops down. Its wider being an old 4x4 trail so likely less affected by brush.

[old goat]

Research in the sciences = do an experiment
Research once removed = read the paper describing the experiment in a peer reviewed article
Research twice removed = read a summary of the paper in a science publication
Research thrice removed = read a reporter's description of the summary of the paper describing the research
"Research" of whacko conspiracy theories on the internet--there's reason there's no word after "thrice"

[SumJongGuy]

An academic library and google results are not the same thing.

You can get the library address and subject matter experts contact info from google.. Google is also useful to find the info that debunks the YouTube quacks..

[The AD]

He had to do his own research. People are getting dumber. They have to be getting dumber...

[old goat]

You can get the library address and subject matter experts contact info from google.. Google is also useful to find the info that debunks the YouTube quacks..

You can read the abstracts of medical papers and sometimes the full text on PubMed--the website of the National Library of Medicine. And you can usually buy papers that aren't available as free full text. (The term "paper" for a scientific article is useful--it connotes a rigorously written peer reviewed description of original scientific research (or in the case of theoretical physics the results of maturbating in the shower while thinking about the origin of the universe). ) (Yes, I know i should have used brackets for the internal quote but I'm living on the wild side.) Nobody sits in a medical library any more, unless you're looking for something really old. The one journal I still read I read online.

[Meadow Skipper]

He had to do his own research. People are getting dumber. They have to be getting dumber...

Or our standards have raised…thanks to Google.

… (or in the case of theoretical physics the results of maturbating in the shower while thinking about the origin of the universe). ) ...

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

[XXX-er]

people are so dumb they ask questions about things and stuff that they could easily just goggle

personaly the answer to a lot of problems have come to me in the shower, something about the soothing sound of water

[The AD]

people are so dumb they ask questions about things and stuff that they could easily just goggle

Maybe they just don't know how to spell Google?