Building permits?

[mall walker]

We are first time homeowners and had a second bathroom put in during covid. We paid contractors obviously (an actual registered business etc), but now are preparing to sell in the next few months. We also had the basement floor tiled. I assumed that whatever the contractors did was legal; but some rabbit hole lead me to reading about liability for failure to disclose unpermitted work, and ideally I don’t want to be sued, so I want to be sure.

I realize I can call the city and ask if there was a permit, but before setting that ball in motion, I wanna know what to expect. What are my options if the work was done without a permit? I know they made a big fuss about everything being up to code and all that, but I don’t recall having a city inspector come once it was all complete so I am a little skeptical. Just want to handle this now before we put it on the market. Salt Lake City (the actual city), if this matters.

[TAFKALVS]

Open the can, and the City will likely find worms.

[old_newguy]

Lucky you! In this market you might find a buyer to overlook the unpermitted bathroom.

No one care about unpermitted cosmetics, but a bathroom triggers tax changes and thus liability for the next owner.

Best case is you pay a fine if it wasn’t permitted. Worst case is they tell you to rip it all out.

[m2711c]

Were any wax rings removed and replaced?

[ötzi]

New 5-gallon bucket?

Is there some reason you can't call the contractor and ask them if they pulled a permit?

[mall walker]

Open the can, and the City will likely find worms.

It’s gonna get opened up when we sell anyway though right? I mean it is what it is, if we have to pay to have it ripped out that’s annoying but fine. But I’d rather pay a fine or retroactively acquire a permit, if needed…

^ re asking the contractor, regardless of what they tell me, I’m going to be suspicious (no inspection after it was done seems sketchy in retrospect right?) so I’d rather find out from the city since they are the authoritative answer in any case.

[old_newguy]

If you are in a major municipality, most have a GIS where you can query permits.

What did your contract with the contractor say?

[::: :::]

If you are in a major municipality, most have a GIS where you can query permits.

What did your contract with the contractor say?

for SLC
https://citizenportal.slcgov.com/cit...odule=Building

SLCo
https://slco.org/digital-archives/

[zion zig zag]

Pretty sure you can search building permits online in SLC. Failing that call and ask, just ask what permits are shown for your address, closed or open. They don't have to know that you had any work done for this.

edit: ^^^beat me to it.

[fatnslow]

It’s gonna get opened up when we sell anyway though right? I mean it is what it is, if we have to pay to have it ripped out that’s annoying but fine. But I’d rather pay a fine or retroactively acquire a permit, if needed…

^ re asking the contractor, regardless of what they tell me, I’m going to be suspicious (no inspection after it was done seems sketchy in retrospect right?) so I’d rather find out from the city since they are the authoritative answer in any case.

Lot of inspections were done virtually during early phase of covid. Do you have a receipt of any kind from the contractor ? Does he have a CCB number ? It should have a line item for the permit fee and as stated many municipalities have a database of previous permits under your name, address and contractor's name/ccb #.

[altasnob]

I've never heard of liability for failure to disclose unpermitted work. But maybe that exists (for knowingly failing to disclose, so giving you an incentive to keep your head in the sand). Permit history is public record so you and anyone else is to free to look that up before buying. Why would you be liable for failing to disclose something that is freely available to anyone willing to look it up?

Sounds like you have a legal beef with the contractor you hired who you presumed was going to get all the proper permits. If they failed/refuse to do that, sue them in small claims court to make them do it.

If you get hosed by the contractor, I don't think the city is going to try to screw you. In my (and most) jurisdictions, you can do all the work yourself without any kind of expertise but still need a permit. So I could see the city pointing out what needs to be changed to bring things up to code, but not tear the whole thing out and start from new.

[mall walker]

Alright. Yeah I checked the SLC citizen portal but it can’t find anything done as far back as 1977, so I’m assuming the search is just poorly implemented. I am waiting to hear from the contractor. It’s not worth suing, the money is not so big a deal, just don’t want the hassle amidst all the other inevitable hassle of home sale.

[fastfred]

so like you never had a conversation with the contractaor about permits when you signed up for this project? I don't like pulling permits and never do so I like explain that to the customer and it's even in writing and shit

if you didn't have a permit i'd guess there is going to be some hokey shit going on with turds floating up hill someday

money well spent would be on a guy like me to come out and smooth things over for you and work with the buildling dept I know all the right lies to tell and stories to say I"m serious you walking in there and talking to a buildling official will be a bad idea real bad expect to throw down a grand or two for my talent tap fees in my world run around 6k per shitter then whatever drywall removal plus an electrician and plumber to certify everything is cool then throw down another 6k to fix all the fuck ups I specialize in this type of stuff an oz for a tip would work is weed legal in utah?

[::: :::]

Alright. Yeah I checked the SLC citizen portal but it can’t find anything done as far back as 1977, so I’m assuming the search is just poorly implemented. I am waiting to hear from the contractor. It’s not worth suing, the money is not so big a deal, just don’t want the hassle amidst all the other inevitable hassle of home sale.

the Accela system is a recent development & "historical" permits [ones preceding the initiation of the online Accela model] may reside outside its bounds until jurisdictions retroactively bind in the old records. Many jurisdictions have only recently transitioned & the Accela model isn't that user friendly IMHO

sometimes jurisdictions have alternate libraries that can be looked up online, if only just listing a permit number & whether it got finaled
[i'm not in your jurisdiction...i just googled for that one, there may be others]

[mall walker]

Ah I don’t remember if we discussed it with the contractors, but I doubt it as it wouldn’t have meant anything to me at the time. It was over a year ago and in the meantime we had a kid, I can barely remember my name anymore.

[easyrdr]

I did some work without a permit. Got handed in by somebody that I guess doesn't like me very much, still don't know who. All they did was inspect it to make sure I was up to code, pay the permit fee and I was done. Not a big deal.

[::: :::]

ask for the "fire retardant wax ring special"

[irul&ublo]

We are first time homeowners and had a second bathroom put in during covid. We paid contractors obviously (an actual registered business etc), but now are preparing to sell in the next few months. We also had the basement floor tiled. I assumed that whatever the contractors did was legal; but some rabbit hole lead me to reading about liability for failure to disclose unpermitted work, and ideally I don’t want to be sued, so I want to be sure.

I realize I can call the city and ask if there was a permit, but before setting that ball in motion, I wanna know what to expect. What are my options if the work was done without a permit? I know they made a big fuss about everything being up to code and all that, but I don’t recall having a city inspector come once it was all complete so I am a little skeptical. Just want to handle this now before we put it on the market. Salt Lake City (the actual city), if this matters.

Step 1…call the contractor and ask for copies.

[zion zig zag]

Can't you just disclose the unpermitted work and then sell as-is? If so, and there is no continued liability after title transfer, I'd probably go that direction in this hot market before I invited a building inspector into my home. Most buyers will probably understand that about as much as you did, ask for an inspection contingency and make an offer.

**I am neither a real estate professional or a lawyer, but I have met lots of home inspectors with a heavy badge.

[mall walker]

Can't you just disclose the unpermitted work and then sell as-is? If so, and there is no continued liability after title transfer, I'd probably go that direction in this hot market before I invited a building inspector into my home. Most buyers will probably understand that about as much as you did, ask for an inspection contingency and make an offer.

**I am neither a real estate professional or a lawyer, but I have met lots of home inspectors with a heavy badge.

We can certainly do this also, but my understanding is that it will hurt our sale price considerably / make it harder for lenders to approve a mortgage on this basis. If this is the overall more cost-effective option though that's fine too. I have no particular ethical need to have this work permitted, I just want to maximize our net gain on the home sale. So I’d rather pay $10k in nonsense now than sell the home for a $20k discount.

[zion zig zag]

We can certainly do this also, but my understanding is that it will hurt our sale price considerably / make it harder for lenders to approve a mortgage on this basis. If this is the overall more cost-effective option though that's fine too. I have no particular ethical need to have this work permitted, I just want to maximize our net gain on the home sale. So I’d rather pay $10k in nonsense now than sell the home for a $20k discount.

Yep, I hear you on the maximizing profits part. Are you FSBO or going with an agent? Because that's likely a question for them.

Maybe it's a bigger deal than I think, but in my world, everyone I know has done work without permit on their house. We added a bathroom in my current house with no permit and when we toyed with selling a while back the agent never even mentioned it.

[old_newguy]

We can certainly do this also, but my understanding is that it will hurt our sale price considerably / make it harder for lenders to approve a mortgage on this basis. If this is the overall more cost-effective option though that's fine too. I have no particular ethical need to have this work permitted, I just want to maximize our net gain on the home sale. So I’d rather pay $10k in nonsense now than sell the home for a $20k discount.

Yes. Some loan companies will not close on unpermitted work, which could blow up your deal.

As a buyer I think the bigger deal is the potential long term tax implications of seeing 3 bed/ 1 bath on the tax statement and knowing you have 2 baths. Not to mention taking on your problem as my problem in a future sale.

[mall walker]

Yep, I hear you on the maximizing profits part. Are you FSBO or going with an agent? Because that's likely a question for them.

Maybe it's a bigger deal than I think, but in my world, everyone I know has done work without permit on their house. We added a bathroom in my current house with no permit and when we toyed with selling a while back the agent never even mentioned it.

Hm, ok. Definitely selling with an agent. But good idea, maybe I'll just ask him, he's a professional acquaintance and also helped us buy, so I trust him.

[JayPowHound]

In this market I was under the assumption you will likely get a cash offer "as is" with no inspection. That's a win with 0 hassle.

I wish we could sell right now, just don't want to try to buy something else. So it goes.

Good luck!

[old_newguy]

In this market I was under the assumption you will get an offer "as is" with no inspection. That's a win with 0 hassle.

Good luck!

But if you say there was no unpermitted work in your disclosure and it’s obvious there was, the buyer can use it to get out of the deal.