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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    I can't be the only one thinking this is the most predictable thread type we have. If you fed the 'cyclists suck' thread into an AI it could have produced this new thread, no problem,
    You're seriously blowing my mind here Dexter. You saying that some of the stuff posted in the PR is generated by AI?
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    Yes, there are total assholes cyclists who like to assert themselves on the road by making life difficult for drivers (cyclist boosters: I understand 'making life difficult' is a relative term and doesn't compare to endangering someone). Yes, there are total asshole drivers who put cyclists in jeopardy by driving like idiots--sometimes even intentionally.
    Close, but in most states and in most circumstances cyclists have as much right to use the roadway as a vehicle. In other words, legally I can ride my bike down the middle of the lane without concern for vehicles getting backed up behind me. If I move over at all to provide some space for a vehicle to pass me, I am already being polite and making it easier for the drivers. There are many times that 'taking the lane' and riding in the middle of the road (in towns and cities for example) is the safest option available to the cyclist to avoid getting doored (hit by someone exiting a parked vehicle), squeezed to the curb by a passing car, etc.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    You're seriously blowing my mind here Dexter. You saying that some of the stuff posted in the PR is generated by AI?
    I've been pretty sure for years that you're an AI, so yeah, I guess I am. It would save us a fuckload of time if we could just get AI to hammer out these posts, anyway.
    [quote][//quote]

  4. #29
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    Timberridge 9000 has read your post and will respond shortly.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    You're seriously blowing my mind here Dexter. You saying that some of the stuff posted in the PR is generated by AI?
    If it weren't for AI, we'd have no I at all

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    ...people aren't good at understanding where others are coming from.... But I think we could help both sides if everyone acknowledged that the entitled cyclist...
    Tell me more about this AI. Can it trim posts down for quicker reading?
    A woman came up to me and said "I'd like to poison your mind
    with wrong ideas that appeal to you, though I am not unkind."

  7. #32
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    Hi Dexter, how may I assist you today?
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    Close, but in most states and in most circumstances cyclists have as much right to use the roadway as a vehicle. In other words, legally I can ride my bike down the middle of the lane without concern for vehicles getting backed up behind me. If I move over at all to provide some space for a vehicle to pass me, I am already being polite and making it easier for the drivers. There are many times that 'taking the lane' and riding in the middle of the road (in towns and cities for example) is the safest option available to the cyclist to avoid getting doored (hit by someone exiting a parked vehicle), squeezed to the curb by a passing car, etc.
    This.

    In all honesty, for the longest time, I rode as far right as possible. I figured: there's no point in blocking the road when there are cars behind me. But, in the last few years, there are times (blind corners, uphill on two lane roads, etc,) where I will move left and "take the lane." This is a direct reaction to being "buzzed" too many times in the last few years (it really does seem that driver's have gotten exponentially less patient in the last 5yrs or so) by drivers who seemingly can't wait 10 seconds for an on-coming care to get by (and yes....I have literally looked at my watch and timed it....the longest any car has ever had to wait behind me is about 25 seconds; I know it seems like longer, but next time you're behind a cyclist, check your watch....I'll bet you're behind them for a much shorter period than you think)). If a driver can't give me courtesy of waiting 10-30seconds to pass safely, then they're just gonna have to wait behind me until I feel it's safe.
    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

    I suspect there's logic behind the madness, but I'm too dumb to see it.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    Close, but in most states and in most circumstances cyclists have as much right to use the roadway as a vehicle. In other words, legally I can ride my bike down the middle of the lane without concern for vehicles getting backed up behind me. If I move over at all to provide some space for a vehicle to pass me, I am already being polite and making it easier for the drivers. There are many times that 'taking the lane' and riding in the middle of the road (in towns and cities for example) is the safest option available to the cyclist to avoid getting doored (hit by someone exiting a parked vehicle), squeezed to the curb by a passing car, etc.
    I'm aware of the law. But this makes my point--what you are legally entitled to do isn't the same as what you should be doing, and if people were just better about considering how they impact others probably most of these problems could be avoided. When I drive and I know a cyclist is going fast on my right when I am about to make a right turn, I try to let the cyclist go by (unless they're going too slowly for it to make sense) even though in NYS I am allowed to make the turn as long as it won't cause a collision (I don't need to let the cyclist go by, even if he has to slow down for me--I think some states are different). Point is, I don't consider just what the law allows, I try to figure out how to accommodate the cyclist (while trying not to inconvenience drivers behind me too much). If you're only thinking about what the law allows you to do we inevitably end up with these conflicts--especially if your mentality is that you are entitled to behave in this way and you don't take into account how your actions are likely to impact others (and of course I would say the same to drivers interacting with cyclists).

    Note: I'm not saying you are the kind of cyclist who unnecessarily hogs the road, I'm just speaking generally. I assume you're not one of those people who gets a rush from keeping a line of cars behind you crawling around at 20 mph (or less).
    [quote][//quote]

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    Hi Dexter, how may I assist you today?
    Ah, I knew it would start working better. Now we're talking! I'm sure you know what I was perusing on Amazon earlier today, so can you produce some related posts?
    [quote][//quote]

  11. #36
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    Ah, I knew it would start working better. Now we're talking! I'm sure you know what I was perusing on Amazon earlier today, so can you produce some related posts?
    ...typing...
    Hi, based on your recent search history you may be further interested in the following
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...jYpiiQOqkp-BdI

    ..typing...
    Thank you for contacting TGR today and should you need further assistance feel free to contact us via the chat function.

    ...typing...
    Have a great day!
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    I'm aware of the law. But this makes my point--what you are legally entitled to do isn't the same as what you should be doing, and if people were just better about considering how they impact others probably most of these problems could be avoided. When I drive and I know a cyclist is going fast on my right when I am about to make a right turn, I try to let the cyclist go by (unless they're going too slowly for it to make sense) even though in NYS I am allowed to make the turn as long as it won't cause a collision (I don't need to let the cyclist go by, even if he has to slow down for me--I think some states are different). Point is, I don't consider just what the law allows, I try to figure out how to accommodate the cyclist (while trying not to inconvenience drivers behind me too much). If you're only thinking about what the law allows you to do we inevitably end up with these conflicts--especially if your mentality is that you are entitled to behave in this way and you don't take into account how your actions are likely to impact others (and of course I would say the same to drivers interacting with cyclists).

    Note: I'm not saying you are the kind of cyclist who unnecessarily hogs the road, I'm just speaking generally. I assume you're not one of those people who gets a rush from keeping a line of cars behind you crawling around at 20 mph (or less).
    I understand you aren't directing this to me personally.

    So how does the cyclists decision to 'take the lane' if they feel that's the safest choice negatively impact the driver behind them? A few seconds worth of delay?

    Not dissimilar to the whole trans bathroom debate, this is a problem of infrastructure. If sidewalks were built out into 'recreation path' widths and the rules of the road required bikes to remain on the paths, this issue could be resolved immediately. Until that nirvana happens, vehicle drivers need to understand how dangerous their aggressive behavior can be to a cyclist.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    This.

    In all honesty, for the longest time, I rode as far right as possible. I figured: there's no point in blocking the road when there are cars behind me. But, in the last few years, there are times (blind corners, uphill on two lane roads, etc,) where I will move left and "take the lane." This is a direct reaction to being "buzzed" too many times in the last few years (it really does seem that driver's have gotten exponentially less patient in the last 5yrs or so) by drivers who seemingly can't wait 10 seconds for an on-coming care to get by (and yes....I have literally looked at my watch and timed it....the longest any car has ever had to wait behind me is about 25 seconds; I know it seems like longer, but next time you're behind a cyclist, check your watch....I'll bet you're behind them for a much shorter period than you think)). If a driver can't give me courtesy of waiting 10-30seconds to pass safely, then they're just gonna have to wait behind me until I feel it's safe.
    As a counterpoint, there are cyclists who seem to think that any time they have to use their brakes as a result of what a car does then it's a crime against cyclists. I think you're doing the right thing (I assume you are, and based on what you described you are), but there's also the fact that, for example, when I drive I will typically encounter a few dozen cyclists during my drive. Waiting 30 seconds for each of them (this has never happened to me) now starts to represent a significant amount of time--multiply that by 200 days (or whatever) of driving and you're talking about hours of time. If the cyclists are forcing that time to be spent for no real reason then I can understand why drivers may feel antipathy.

    I'll say again that what you describe makes it sound like you're doing the right thing, but obviously the best solution would be a road that allows cyclists to be there safely while not slowing down all the other traffic (but then we get into cost/benefit and all that kind of stuff--clearly there are roads where it's probably never going to be a good idea to ride a bike, and there are roads where drivers simply need to get used to making room for bikes).
    [quote][//quote]

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    I understand you aren't directing this to me personally.

    So how does the cyclists decision to 'take the lane' if they feel that's the safest choice negatively impact the driver behind them? A few seconds worth of delay?
    Coincidentally, I guess you can see what I posted in response to smarty while you posted this. What I was trying to say is that the cyclist's decision to take the lane is sometimes sensible and merited, and drivers should understand that, but other times the cyclist is just being a dick (I'm thinking especially of cyclists riding two abreast when there's a wide shoulder area--not because they need to take the lane for safety, but just because they're oblivious or somehow like to assert their right to take the lane).

    Not dissimilar to the whole trans bathroom debate, this is a problem of infrastructure. If sidewalks were built out into 'recreation path' widths and the rules of the road required bikes to remain on the paths, this issue could be resolved immediately. Until that nirvana happens, vehicle drivers need to understand how dangerous their aggressive behavior can be to a cyclist.
    Right, which is my point--both sides should take into account how they're impacting other people. But with militant cyclists intent on putting drivers in their place and idiot drivers being unaware of the danger they pose (or, again, intentionally making things more dangerous) we end up with what we have now.
    [quote][//quote]

  16. #41
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    Iím just not interested in killing anyone, so while it certainly is frustrating to get stuck behind certain riders, I recognize that the kinetic energy equation is firmly on my side of the equation when I am inside my car.


    The American idea of how bikes and vehicles share space, especially in urban environments until recently has been laughably stupid. 5 foot bike lanes adjacent to 30 mph + traffic separated by a paint line? Give me a break.

    Smarter countries and American cities have or are aggressively engineering out a lot of the behavioral issues discussed so far in this thread.

    Our system for bikes is designed with very little tolerance for errors in human judgement, unlike our vehicle system (roadside safety, vehicle safety, etc).

    The only type of riding I do is on quiet residential streets or shared use paths. Anything else is fucking crazy IMO.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    Holy fuck. I didn't see the quantity and just assumed the photo was showing some weird, small container. But at 63% off I don't see how I can't buy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    ...typing...
    Hi, based on your recent search history you may be further interested in the following
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...jYpiiQOqkp-BdI

    ..typing...
    Thank you for contacting TGR today and should you need further assistance feel free to contact us via the chat function.

    ...typing...
    Have a great day!
    Goddamit, I literally spent 20 seconds trying to decide if I should click on the link or not and ultimately made the wrong decision. Thanks for nothing.
    [quote][//quote]

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    Coincidentally, I guess you can see what I posted in response to smarty while you posted this. What I was trying to say is that the cyclist's decision to take the lane is sometimes sensible and merited, and drivers should understand that, but other times the cyclist is just being a dick (I'm thinking especially of cyclists riding two abreast when there's a wide shoulder area--not because they need to take the lane for safety, but just because they're oblivious or somehow like to assert their right to take the lane).

    Right, which is my point--both sides should take into account how they're impacting other people. But with militant cyclists intent on putting drivers in their place and idiot drivers being unaware of the danger they pose (or, again, intentionally making things more dangerous) we end up with what we have now.
    I get it. I generally ride by myself or only one other person....b/c I too have seen too many cyclists riding 3 abreast or pacelines that are 30 deep....I just don't want to be associated with that stuff. I'll also pull off into a driveway on an extended uphill to let a driver pass. I will say, most drivers are courteous....but all it takes is that one guy/gal who drives past at 50mph w/i a foot for me to be like: eff this....I'm taking the lane. Sure, it forces some courteous drivers to wait...but hopefully they can understand, if not for that shithead 5miles back, I'd be as far right as possible.
    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

    I suspect there's logic behind the madness, but I'm too dumb to see it.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    I get it. I generally ride by myself or only one other person....b/c I too have seen too many cyclists riding 3 abreast or pacelines that are 30 deep....I just don't want to be associated with that stuff. I'll also pull off into a driveway on an extended uphill to let a driver pass. I will say, most drivers are courteous....but all it takes is that one guy/gal who drives past at 50mph w/i a foot for me to be like: eff this....I'm taking the lane. Sure, it forces some courteous drivers to wait...but hopefully they can understand, if not for that shithead 5miles back, I'd be as far right as possible.
    Yeah, well, it sounds like you're more courteous than most people would really expect. If all cyclists were the same (or even a little less thoughtful) this problem would hardly exist. I personally always try to give more than enough room to cyclists, if for no other reason than I don't want to injure/kill someone (whether my fault or theirs), but I get why some drivers get pretty enraged (I mean, I've definitely gotten angry at times when it seems like cyclists are just fucking with me).

    Anyway, as I said earlier, this is all well-worn TGR material that I think we can find in that other thread, and probably 10 or more others from the TGR archives.
    [quote][//quote]

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    But with militant cyclists intent on putting drivers in their place
    Saving time is important.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/projection

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Uhh, sure. Swing and a miss if you're saying I'm trying to put cyclists in their place. How did you arrive at that one?
    [quote][//quote]

  22. #47
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    I routinely have to yell and scold drivers who are not keeping up with cyclists during rush hour traffic. They constantly drift right into the bike lanes. Not to mention the douchebag FedEx, Amazon, and UPS drivers. The cycling lane is not there for you to drive half your vehicle in! Learn to drive and more importantly to look left or right BEFORE entering a damn traffic circle!!! Bunch of old retired boomers around here who must all have arthritic necks since they seem incapable of turning their heads left or right. Seriously, they just drive right into the traffic circle like people in the circle should yield to them. I don't care so much when I'm in my own vehicle, but when I'm on my bike, WTF? Just about got drilled last week in a traffic circle, and the dude had a hatch back with a bike in the back. FFS, what is the world coming to.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    Uhh, sure. Swing and a miss if you're saying I'm trying to put cyclists in their place. How did you arrive at that.one?
    You should read the link. Imagining you know others' thoughts is the definition. Defensive projection is just a subset.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    I routinely have to yell and scold drivers who are not keeping up with cyclists during rush hour traffic. They constantly drift right into the bike lanes. Not to mention the douchebag FedEx, Amazon, and UPS drivers. The cycling lane is not there for you to drive half your vehicle in! Learn to drive and more importantly to look left or right BEFORE entering a damn traffic circle!!! Bunch of old retired boomers around here who must all have arthritic necks since they seem incapable of turning their heads left or right. Seriously, they just drive right into the traffic circle like people in the circle should yield to them. I don't care so much when I'm in my own vehicle, but when I'm on my bike, WTF? Just about got drilled last week in a traffic circle, and the dude had a hatch back with a bike in the back. FFS, what is the world coming to.
    Iím assuming Bend.

    Itís because you are biking in a system that is subtly telling drivers that you shouldnít be there. So they are not looking for you. Itís a system where the number 1 user is cars and everyone else comes a distant second.

    A reasonable system would have a have better separation or would be communicating to the driver that they are in a space where bikes and pedestrians are present and the priority and they need to slow down and pay attention.

    This probably sounds strange because you would think that system, particularly the stuff on the west sid, would be more bike/ped focused.

  25. #50
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    Does "taking the lane" count if the cyclist(s) is stopped in the middle of the road around a blind uphill corner chatting with his riding partner?

    The other day I was driving this gravel road near Burke. There is a somewhat steep uphill into a blind corner. The speed limit through here is 35mph, but I usually take it a little slower just due to the poor sight lines. On this day I was luckily taking it even slower than usual a I was out for a cruise looking for some photo ops. The Street view images below don't really show how blind the corner is since the Google vehicle was in the lane coming from the other direction. But I think you can get the idea. I came up and around the bend only to find two riders sitting in the road. The one guy near the side of the road was ok but his buddy was in the middle of the road (see blue marks in the second shot); both were completely stopped and appeared to be chatting. I had less than 50 ft to emergency brake and swerve into the other lane. If there had been another vehicle coming from the other direction, i would have had to take the mailbox.

    Name:  a1a.JPG
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    Name:  a2.JPG
Views: 239
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    It really seems that a lot of riders are leaving their brains somewhere else when they put their helmets on. They become the center of the universe and everyone must make way for them. If we could all work together, everyone would have more fun.
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