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  1. #676
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    RIP Tyler Droeger
    https://www.ksl.com/article/50252231...rfield-county-

    Utah's vehicular homicide law requires the driver to be drunk or texting (https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Ch...76-5-S207.html) so this likely will be another legal murder.

  2. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    In Sacramento in busy spots it's common to have the bike lane painted green and located between the right turn lane and the thru lane. Seems to work well, except in that one spot I mentioned earlier. The most common mistake I see where there isn't a marked right turn lane is for cars to turn right without first pulling as close to the curb as possible - so that bikes can't pull up next to them on the right. The bikes can pass them on the left or wait for them to turn. If the bike gets there first they should claim the space so that the right turning car can't pass them on the left before turning
    If a bike gets there first, he/she should walk 7' over to the sidewalk ped xing and push the cross button.

  3. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by highangle View Post
    If a bike gets there first, he/she should walk 7' over to the sidewalk ped xing and push the cross button.
    You’re slipping. Don’t forget the non-binary peeps, Mang…

  4. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Utah's vehicular homicide law requires the driver to be drunk or texting (https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Ch...76-5-S207.html) so this likely will be another legal murder.
    What about Manslaughter, Negligent Homicide, Reckless Driving, and Reckless Endangerment?

    https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Ch...18050820180508

    https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Ch...00010118000101

    https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title41/Ch...00010118000101

    https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Ch...00010118000101

  5. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54-46 View Post
    You’re slipping. Don’t forget the non-binary peeps, Mang…
    xx/xy is a mere linguistic expedient. Did not intend to leave you out or otherwise exclude you from the set of bipedal road hazards.

  6. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    What about Manslaughter, Negligent Homicide, Reckless Driving, and Reckless Endangerment?
    Manslaughter, Reckless Driving, and Reckless Endangerment would require "reckless" driving/behavior, and the facts available so far indicate "simple" negligence. Negligent homicide requires criminal negligence, not simple negligence. Simple vs. criminal negligence is somewhat open to interpretation, but I don't expect the Garfield County DA to make a serious push for criminal negligence. Recently, it took over a year for the Utah County DA to even file charges in a case where the driver had 0.1% BAC at the scene (at 6:00 am, no less) and admitted to being on his phone at the time of the crash. It remains to be seen whether that guy will even be convicted or be allowed to plea to a lesser charge. Admittedly, I'm jaded, but if the Garfield County DA goes to bat to seek justice for Mr. Droeger I'll be shocked.

  7. #682
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    The cycling community needs to put more pressure on these DAs to charge just like Mothers Against Drunk Driving pressures more DUIs and Vehicular Assaults/Homicides when the victim is another driver/passenger. The prosecutor in King County (Seattle) takes drunk driving extremely seriously (as they should). He does this not only for moral reasons but as an elected official, he knows DUIs are the one crime that can affect every type of person in the county, including the wealthy and influential (Bill Gates could get mowed down by a drunk driver walking his dog). If alcohol/drugs is ever a factor in these cyclist deaths we really should sick MADD on the DA, as MADD carries enormous clout and believes there should be a zero tolerance standard for DUI (a DA can't get re-elected if MADD drops their endorsement).

    Garfield County, UT relies on tourism. Cyclist are a component of that tourism. It's important for their financial well being to take these cases seriously.

    Still waiting for the reports on the Knapp case. The prosecutor wouldn't give me anything except their already released press release, saying their file is exempt from public record (that wouldn't be the case in WA). But police department should have to cough it up. I am still disappointed that the cycling community in the Bay area hasn't made a bigger stink out of the Knapp case. I feel if that had occurred in the Seattle or Portland area there would be a riot in the streets (Seattle has had some very pro-cycling mayors; Mayor McGinn was affectionately referred to as Mayor McSchwinn).
    Last edited by altasnob; 10-01-2021 at 02:16 PM.

  8. #683
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    Washington has a citizen complaint law that allows a citizen to appear before a judge and present evidence that someone should be charged with a crime (only misdemeanor crimes, not felonies). Maybe Utah does as well. This would be an option if a prosecutor refuses to bring charges in cases you think should be charged. Contact U of Utah Law School. I bet there are students that would help you out if you have a case with merit.

  9. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    Washington has a citizen complaint law that allows a citizen to appear before a judge and present evidence that someone should be charged with a crime (only misdemeanor crimes, not felonies). Maybe Utah does as well. This would be an option if a prosecutor refuses to bring charges in cases you think should be charged. Contact U of Utah Law School. I bet there are students that would help you out if you have a case with merit.
    I would assume that someone who wanted to make such a case would need more evidence than "I read about it in the newspaper".

  10. #685
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    .... or heard about it on the tgrz

  11. #686
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    Like anything in court, you have to present evidence sworn under penalty of perjury. So a citizen could start the process by obtaining police reports, which are sworn under penalty of perjury by the investigating officer. Washington's citizen complaint rule also allows the judge to subpoena their own witnesses and evidence to consider. Ultimately, it is the judge (not the citizen) who decides whether the charge goes forward. But the rule offers a work around if you have a prosecutor who is refusing to file charges when the evidence overwhelmingly supports it. And again, it only applies to misdemeanor (not felony) crimes.

    I had never heard of the rule being used until this summer when the Washington Supreme Court issued a decision concerning the rule. The case was dismissed for other reasons. But two of the judges stated the citizen complaint rule is facially unconstitutional as it violates the separation of powers doctrine, so not sure how much longer the rule will last before it gets completely tossed.

  12. #687
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  13. #688
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    Glad to see her using the vast array of Alaskan bike lanes.


    Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

    I suspect there's logic behind the madness, but I'm too dumb to see it.

  14. #689
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    Lots of good advice here. It ain't over, by far.

    https://www.bikelaw.com/2021/10/waller-bike-crash/

    "The driver of the black F-250 that crushed our clients’ bodies and left them and their bikes splashed and scattered across the roadway is a 16 year old Waller, Texas male. Through our own investigation, we’ve learned his name, his address, the names of his parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, neighbors and family friends. We know the names of the businesses owned and operated by the driver’s family. We know where he was earlier in the day, prior to crashing into our clients while they were more than 70 miles into their USAT tri-club training ride. We know the identity of his passenger (a local 17 year old male from a neighboring town) and a pretty good idea about the role he may have played in causing the crash that sent ALL of our clients to the hospital; 2 by Life Flight, 2 by ambulance, 2 by personal transport.  (Texas licensing provisions allow for licensed drivers between the ages of 16-17 to lawfully operate a motor vehicle with no more than 1 non-family member passenger who is under the age of 21 at a time.)
    The driver’s family’s connections in Waller are a legitimate reason for concern, but I know that Charlie and Peter are very well versed in handling the challenges that nepotism can create."

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  15. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Lots of good advice here. It ain't over, by far.

    https://www.bikelaw.com/2021/10/waller-bike-crash/

    "The driver of the black F-250 that crushed our clients’ bodies and left them and their bikes splashed and scattered across the roadway is a 16 year old Waller, Texas male. Through our own investigation, we’ve learned his name, his address, the names of his parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, neighbors and family friends. We know the names of the businesses owned and operated by the driver’s family. We know where he was earlier in the day, prior to crashing into our clients while they were more than 70 miles into their USAT tri-club training ride. We know the identity of his passenger (a local 17 year old male from a neighboring town) and a pretty good idea about the role he may have played in causing the crash that sent ALL of our clients to the hospital; 2 by Life Flight, 2 by ambulance, 2 by personal transport.  (Texas licensing provisions allow for licensed drivers between the ages of 16-17 to lawfully operate a motor vehicle with no more than 1 non-family member passenger who is under the age of 21 at a time.)
    The driver’s family’s connections in Waller are a legitimate reason for concern, but I know that Charlie and Peter are very well versed in handling the challenges that nepotism can create."
    Goddamn affluenza tx teens. Git their asses

  16. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Lots of good advice here. It ain't over, by far.

    https://www.bikelaw.com/2021/10/waller-bike-crash/

    "The driver of the black F-250 that crushed our clients’ bodies and left them and their bikes splashed and scattered across the roadway is a 16 year old Waller, Texas male. Through our own investigation, we’ve learned his name, his address, the names of his parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, neighbors and family friends. We know the names of the businesses owned and operated by the driver’s family. We know where he was earlier in the day, prior to crashing into our clients while they were more than 70 miles into their USAT tri-club training ride. We know the identity of his passenger (a local 17 year old male from a neighboring town) and a pretty good idea about the role he may have played in causing the crash that sent ALL of our clients to the hospital; 2 by Life Flight, 2 by ambulance, 2 by personal transport.  (Texas licensing provisions allow for licensed drivers between the ages of 16-17 to lawfully operate a motor vehicle with no more than 1 non-family member passenger who is under the age of 21 at a time.)
    The driver’s family’s connections in Waller are a legitimate reason for concern, but I know that Charlie and Peter are very well versed in handling the challenges that nepotism can create."
    Charlie knows all too well as he has recent experiences with judges there, one who actually lamented to him that Waller, TX “doesn’t like [our] kind.”
    ...
    Currently, victim interviews between the prosecutors and our clients are being scheduled. Waller PD did not ask for a single statement from any of them at the scene of the crash or at the hospitals to which they were transported, and all 6 bicyclists were conscious and wanted to participate in the Waller PD led “investigation” at the scene. One witness who was riding behind our clients and the other smaller group of cyclists who were assaulted when the driver coal-rolled them told us that while she was tending to two of the most seriously injured bicyclists, the only thing Officer Charles Mistric said to her (she was not asked to provide a witness statement either, nor was her contact information taken by any Waller PD officer at the scene to provide a statement at a later date or time) was that [the crash victims] would need [his business card] and that the crash report “would take at least 10 days,”as he handed the card to her with the hand-written report number on it.



    As suspected, Keystone cops who don't give 1% of a fuck.

  17. #692
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    Name:  244360223_424352085976777_3895936057229755244_n.jpg
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    www.apriliaforum.com

    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

    "I have no idea what I am talking about but would be happy to share my biased opinions as fact on the matter. "
    Ottime

  18. #693
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    Doh

  19. #694
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    You see that everywhere.

    Delivery drivers parked in bike lane, cops, road construction signage, etc.

  20. #695
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  21. #696
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    More updates from Waller County, TX: https://jalopnik.com/district-attorn...ing-1847846381

    "The Waller County District Attorney released a statement Monday regarding the investigation into the coal-rolling teenager who ran over six cyclists on September 25. The DA has now accused the Waller Police Department of not handling the case appropriately because they failed to treat the scene of the incident as a crime scene.

    The police also failed to contact the DA to coordinate how the agencies involved should proceed, or even to alert his office about the incident at all. Elton Mathis, the DA, reiterated there was no official or formal notice from Waller PD after the teen hit the cyclists, and that his office learned of the incident from social media."

  22. #697
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    This is what happens, Coal Rolling Teenager!... This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps!!" -- Waller Co DA


    Chances are, social media is all the DA knows of the incident, other than what the officer responding did with his time there. Cop didn't find the driver at fault or cite him, so there must be a side to the story we haven't heard?




    .
    Last edited by highangle; 10-18-2021 at 04:46 PM.

  23. #698
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    Quote Originally Posted by highangle View Post
    This is what happens, Coal Rolling Teenager!... This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps!!" -- Waller Co DA


    Chances are, social media is all the DA knows of the incident, other than what the officer responding did with his time there. Cop didn't find the driver at fault or cite him, so there must be a side to the story we haven't heard?




    .
    Read the linked article--then come back and edit or delete your post. Probably delete, because I don't think there's any way you can edit it to make sense.

  24. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    More updates from Waller County, TX: https://jalopnik.com/district-attorn...ing-1847846381

    "The Waller County District Attorney released a statement Monday regarding the investigation into the coal-rolling teenager who ran over six cyclists on September 25. The DA has now accused the Waller Police Department of not handling the case appropriately because they failed to treat the scene of the incident as a crime scene.

    The police also failed to contact the DA to coordinate how the agencies involved should proceed, or even to alert his office about the incident at all. Elton Mathis, the DA, reiterated there was no official or formal notice from Waller PD after the teen hit the cyclists, and that his office learned of the incident from social media."
    This comment to the article is gold, Jerry!

    “This being Texas, some of the cyclists must also own trucks. It would probably help (public opinion-wise) to have a picture in a local newspaper of one of the bandaged cyclists standing next to their pickup truck. Unless it’s a Honda Ridgeline, of course.”

  25. #700
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Read the linked article--then come back and edit or delete your post. Probably delete, because I don't think there's any way you can edit it to make sense.
    Holy shit. Seems like attempt manslaughter, but I guess "A charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon" is the charge that the driver will be looking at.

    https://www.bikelaw.com/2021/10/waller-bike-crash/

    Our 6 clients are suffering from horrible injuries including broken vertebrae, cervical and lumbar spinal injuries, broken collar bones, hands, and wrists- many of which require surgical intervention- as well as multiple traumatic brain injuries, lacerations, soft tissue damage, road rash, and extensive bruising.

    Edit to add:
    There is a lot of speculation on whether the kid's family or one of the several cyclists is better connected or has deeper pockets. There was a lot of $$$ in those triathlon bikes. He didn't run over a pack of dirt baggers.
    Last edited by From_the_NEK; 10-19-2021 at 09:03 AM.
    Aim for the chopping block. If you aim for the wood, you will have nothing. Aim past the wood, aim through the wood.
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