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  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
    This 1000%. Olympic level punching event where you can't really punch? Imagine if they told the boxers that??
    How about letting women hockey players check, while we're on the subject.

  2. #602
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    Can they in the "pros"? I dont know much about women's hockey, but from helping coach my daughters lax team I've learned the women's and men's games are VERY different.

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtuhockey33 View Post
    Again; people who have never watched the sport trying to comment on it. This isn’t meant to be a violent sport - any contact deemed “dangerous” (such as knocking out an opponent) is illegal. They’re wearing protective gear in the case this happens. It’s not MMA or boxing where the goal is to knock out/injure your opponent.
    Admittedly, never watched it and don’t know much about it. But, with this explanation in hand…it now sounds even dumber.


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    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

    I suspect there's logic behind the madness, but I'm too dumb to see it.

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I don't think climbing competitions have been going on long enough to have a GOAT,
    First one in America was held at Snowbird in 1988. Hosted by Dick Bass.

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    First one in America was held at Snowbird in 1988. Hosted by Dick Bass.
    yes, though the first ones were on real rocks. The sport has evolved a lot and there have been many great climbers like Hill and Desteville. Some commentators wondering if Janja could be called the GOAT said no, not unless you could name who would be #2 . . .

    The commentators all use the term (usually for Ondra as 'the best climber of all time', which they assume means the best competitive as well, which could be damaging) and for Janja. Janja doesn't climb outside, though.

  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by spanghew View Post
    yes, though the first ones were on real rocks. The sport has evolved a lot and there have been many great climbers like Hill and Desteville. Some commentators wondering if Janja could be called the GOAT said no, not unless you could name who would be #2 . . .

    The commentators all use the term (usually for Ondra as 'the best climber of all time', which they assume means the best competitive as well, which could be damaging) and for Janja. Janja doesn't climb outside, though.
    Yeah that GOAT climber stuff is all bullshit IMO. Too many subdisciplines in climbing to ever determine a GOAT. Always a stronger young gun coming up who can pull on plastic harder, and that's not even real climbing. That said, if I had to choose a GOAT rock climber, my pick would be Lynn Hill for freeing the Nose. It's a feat that's never been equaled IMO.

    One of the great regrets of my life is declining an invite to attend the Snowbird comp. Went and skied a peak instead, thinking I'd rather do something than watch something. Stupid decision in hindsight.

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
    So then what's the goal? If it's all about form and technique without real contact it sounds like it should be classified as a genre of dance rather than combat.. same DEFINITELY goes for the kata.

    Do the judo folks have to hold back as well, or can they really fight?

    I guess I'm assuming connections between judo/wrestling with karate/boxing, rather than karate/ribbon dancing.

    /seriousquestion
    It’s supposed to show your mastery of the art while not hurting your opponent. Kind of like, “if I really wanted to, I could knock you out but you’re not worth it” You can still make contact but it’s not meant to injure.

    Kata is a joke… karate is different in the fact that you use moves on a human that is able to move and counter as to just showing off your move set… both are not what you see on tv/movies when you think martial arts.

    Judo is all about takedowns, pins and tap outs. It’s way more like wrestling as you said.

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
    Can they in the "pros"? I dont know much about women's hockey, but from helping coach my daughters lax team I've learned the women's and men's games are VERY different.
    No… still no checking in women’s hockey at any level and even in mens hockey they moved the ages up (used to be 10-12? Now it’s like 13-14 when you can first start checking).

    The one thing women’s hockey has perfected is the hip check as it’s considered legal. When done right, it has the same effect as a huge hit in guys hockey.

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    Yeah that GOAT climber stuff is all bullshit IMO. Too many subdisciplines in climbing to ever determine a GOAT. Always a stronger young gun coming up who can pull on plastic harder, and that's not even real climbing. That said, if I had to choose a GOAT rock climber, my pick would be Lynn Hill for freeing the Nose. It's a feat that's never been equaled IMO.

    One of the great regrets of my life is declining an invite to attend the Snowbird comp. Went and skied a peak instead, thinking I'd rather do something than watch something. Stupid decision in hindsight.
    What about Willo Welzenbach? Louis Lachenal? Walter Bonatti? Edmund Hillary? Hermann Buhl? Messner? Steck? Honnold? Like I said before--people toss around GOAT like it's confetti at a wedding. And 1988 may seem like a long time ago to some of you. It's not. Everyone likes to think the GOAT is someone in their generation give or take or someone they saw personally.

  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    What about Willo Welzenbach? Louis Lachenal? Walter Bonatti? Edmund Hillary? Hermann Buhl? Messner? Steck? Honnold? Like I said before--people toss around GOAT like it's confetti at a wedding. And 1988 may seem like a long time ago to some of you. It's not. Everyone likes to think the GOAT is someone in their generation give or take or someone they saw personally.
    You left out Gaston Rebuffat


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  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtuhockey33 View Post
    It’s supposed to show your mastery of the art while not hurting your opponent. Kind of like, “if I really wanted to, I could knock you out but you’re not worth it” You can still make contact but it’s not meant to injure.

    Kata is a joke… karate is different in the fact that you use moves on a human that is able to move and counter as to just showing off your move set… both are not what you see on tv/movies when you think martial arts.

    Judo is all about takedowns, pins and tap outs. It’s way more like wrestling as you said.
    From experience, it is harder to spar and pull punches and kicks in martial arts instead of following through. Your body and momentum stabilizes from the impact even if it is blocked. Pulling the strike, controlling your body, and being ready to defend against the counter while off balance is harder. Some moves count on the follow through for maintaining balance so they're not used in this kind of competition. It's also about respect at the highest levels. How much better could Tyson and Holyfield been if they trained together? If the best can fight together without the need to kill each other, they both get even better. They can learn from each other.
    Wait, how can we trust this guy^^^ He's clearly not DJSapp

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    What about Willo Welzenbach? Louis Lachenal? Walter Bonatti? Edmund Hillary? Hermann Buhl? Messner? Steck? Honnold? Like I said before--people toss around GOAT like it's confetti at a wedding. And 1988 may seem like a long time ago to some of you. It's not. Everyone likes to think the GOAT is someone in their generation give or take or someone they saw personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by spanghew View Post
    You left out Gaston Rebuffat


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    Those are all mountaineers. I said GOAT rock climber.

  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    Those are all mountaineers. I said GOAT rock climber.
    Honnold? Croft? Caldwell? Bachar?
    What we have here is an intelligence failure. You may be familiar with staring directly at that when shaving. .
    -Ottime

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not DJSapp View Post
    From experience, it is harder to spar and pull punches and kicks in martial arts instead of following through. Your body and momentum stabilizes from the impact even if it is blocked. Pulling the strike, controlling your body, and being ready to defend against the counter while off balance is harder. Some moves count on the follow through for maintaining balance so they're not used in this kind of competition. It's also about respect at the highest levels. How much better could Tyson and Holyfield been if they trained together? If the best can fight together without the need to kill each other, they both get even better. They can learn from each other.
    This is more well written than I could ever hope to do. Spot on

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by seano732 View Post
    Honnold? Croft? Caldwell? Bachar?
    Sharma

  16. #616
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    Won wrestling gold:



    Won Judo gold:



    Won Karate (Kumite) gold:



    nuff said.

  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by seano732 View Post
    Honnold? Croft? Caldwell? Bachar?
    Quote Originally Posted by spanghew View Post
    Sharma
    All great climbers, but not GOATworthy. Freeing the Nose is the singular most impressive achievement in the history of the sport. The most iconic rock climb in the world, on the most famous wall El Cap, climbed in the purest style, i.e. free climbed using gear for protection only. You can point to a lot of incredible achievements in rock climbing, but nothing that equals that IMO. And still, all these years later, the biggest prize in rock climbing has only been repeated by 7 people. Lynn is the true GOAT. You can keep naming names or just give up and agree with me.

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    All great climbers, but not GOATworthy. Freeing the Nose is the singular most impressive achievement in the history of the sport. The most iconic rock climb in the world, on the most famous wall El Cap, climbed in the purest style, i.e. free climbed using gear for protection only. You can point to a lot of incredible achievements in rock climbing, but nothing that equals that IMO. And still, all these years later, the biggest prize in rock climbing has only been repeated by 7 people. Lynn is the true GOAT. You can keep naming names or just give up and agree with me.
    I agree. I remember attending a talk she gave shortly after accomplishing the feat, and she was just as impressive in person. But as people are pointing out, climbing is too complex to reduce to any one thing. No one else will ever free solo Freeride like Honnold did, and though Ondra repeated the Dawn Wall after Caldwell put it up, all these are truly amazing feats that advanced the sport in significant ways (well, Honnold didn't necessarily advance the sport, but he did something utterly cool and terrifying).

    If we're talking only about climbing competitions, Sharma is very worthy of mention, but he didn't take it as seriously as the current crop do.

  19. #619
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    Bike crash reel. Looks like YouTube only.


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