Ancestral Puebloan Thread

[SirHeady]

Anyone else into the Ancestral Puebloan , Mongolian, Mimbres , Hohokam and Fremont Cultures ?

Been one of my low key fav topics to nerd out on since going to Mesa Verde as a kid .

This has been supplemented by David Roberts books on the subject matter along with Craig Child’s House of Rain.

Being in Utah , I’ve been fortunate to have such easy access to Fremont and Anasazi sites in the region. I think the Fremont are pretty heady and probably more mysterious than the Anasazi given the lack of information about them despite their obvious similarities to the anasazi and obvious sophistication as it pertains to astronomy and building construction.

Fremont Rock art is probably the best Rock Art of all the “Southwestern “ cultures. I find the latter pueblo I and Pueblo II panels to be too Baroque. Basket maker rock art however is fucking lit 🔥


any else of y’all into this shit ?

[detrusor]

I love getting to see all this history living in utah. Especially the somewhat protected things only accessed by the river.

Bears ears was mind blowing as well.

However, I don’t really know sick about it….it’s on my to do list to get some books.


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[BobMc]

Rather arcane but I’m down with this. We spent a few days in Cortez a couple years back, leading up I checked out things online I’d always been interested in.

We hit up the Lowry Pueblo, Hovenweep, the Anasazi Heritage Center in Delores, and of course Mesa Verde. At the time I did a pretty deep dive into the archeology of it all, pretty fascinating how they excavate these sites.

Later on in the trip we went to Bandelier National Monument and encountered the same type of structures, quite fascinating to see how these people lived.

[Norseman]

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[Norseman]

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[SirHeady]

sick , is that Cedar Mesa area ?

[Meadow Skipper]

I’m in. I spend a certain amount of time visiting and looking for ancestral puebloan ruins around New Mexico - we got tons. And I’ve seen some great petroglyphs in the Maze district at Canyonlands - in fact some years ago I spent a full moon autumn equinox night at the Harvest Scene panel. I’ll see if I can dig up some pics of those. In the meanwhile, an unusual square kiva (excavated and stabilized) at El Moro NM.

[muted reborn]

Nice, Norseman! Here's some pics from this spring in AZ and UT








I have a permit for 3 days in The Maze this fall, wife and I are going to hike from our campsite to see the Harvest Scene. Pretty psyched just to camp at the Maze Overlook honestly.

[Meadow Skipper]

Oh, and here are the Stone Lions at Bandelier NM and some nearby ruins.

[Buster Highmen]

In the Kiva at Spruce House, Mesa Verde, 15 or so years ago. The kids were freaked.

[Viva]

I live right by Chimney Rock and run the road to the top a lot. Sometimes, I like to hang out topside. The views are okay, but it's a neat place with a bit of a spiritual vibe.

Chaco is even coolerer and more remote.

[MTT]

I find that area and the potential for advanced civilization 5000 years ago fascinating
Have you seen the latest research indicating that they were cannibals
Not because they were hungry but just cuz

[SirHeady]

I find that area and the potential for advanced civilization 5000 years ago fascinating
Have you seen the latest research indicating that they were cannibals
Not because they were hungry but just cuz

Yes- its a controversial opinion. Its touched on in a chapter in "House of Rain" when a mass grave was found at the base of Sleeping Ute Mtn . Most interestingly, human fecal remains with traces of hemoglobin were also found which confirm the cannibalism. However, many of the skulls were found to have filed teeth which is indicative of the Aztec /Meso American Cultures. Its been established that there was extensive trade and contact with the Meso American cultures to the South, but the Sleeping Ute Mass Grave Cannibalism may suggest a stronger influence/more pervasive contact with the Aztecs etc

[Garth Bimble]

Has anyone been to the Ute Mountain Ute Tribal Park in Towaoc? Seems like a miniature version of MV sans the crowds and with better access to the sites although you need a native guide to get in.

It's on my bucket list unless someone can tell me otherwise.

[Timberridge]

What's great about the PR is someone can delve into prehistoric Puebloan culture in this thread and then a few minutes later consult with experts on whether they should eat spoiled food in the "Would you eat it?" thread. It's what keeps me coming back.

But back to the topic at hand. I have a subscription to Archeology magazine (I highly recommend it) which I enjoy reading when I'm on the toilet or waiting for my wife to get ready to go somewhere. It covers a wide variety of topics and locations. I'm always struck by how people and cultures really haven't changed over thousands of years. People faced the same issues and problems and fought about the same things 10,000 yrs ago as they do today.

[east or bust]

Leading up to my SUP trip on Lake Powell last year I did some reading on the Anasazi. IIRC nearly every context alluded to a dark era, where they moved to the cliff dwellings that they’re famous for.

What caused that transition seems to be heavily debated - some say drought/famine, others say nomadic tribes foreign to the region moved in and the era was somewhat war torn, with hints of cannibalism.

Whatever story is true, the cliff dwellings are fascinating - the intricacy, different sizes, but most of all the remoteness.

[TBS]

Cool thread. Will see if I can dig out some photos of Bandalier, Chaco, MV, Montezumas Castle and some of the Hohokam ruins in AZ.

Their companion planting practices are fascinating. Sheer luck that corn, beans and squash have all nine amino acids?

I wonder what the Dine’ thought when they showed up and found all the abandoned pueblos…

Hopefully we don’t resort to cannibalism in response to climate change…

[hatchgreenchile]

MV's Far View Lodge has one my favorite views in CO, great place to stay a few nights with easy access to the popular sites and Weatherhill Mesa. As a standard tourist, it's a bummer that you can visit a tiny fraction of the ruins, but it's understandable.

Pro tip - use CalTopo's 7.5' scanned maps to pinpoint the dwellings. They are everywhere. Yeah, you can't walk up to them, but you'll know where to look when exploring.

[Meadow Skipper]

The Harvest Scene at the Maze District of Canyonlands.

[Meadow Skipper]

The White House site at Canyon de Chelly.

[old goat]

The year I lived in Tucson I made it to Betatakin, Keet Seel, and Canyon de Chelly. The first two in particular gave me a particularly spooky feel -- like the people were still there. (No I don't believe in ghosts.) I find it interesting that the Puebloans chose to live in densely populated communities while the Navajo (much later arrivals) traditionally lived widely spread out in the same landscape.
No need for me to travel to see Native American archaeology--there are rapidly fading petroglyphs a few miles up the road and a grinding rock in my back yard. The Truckee Trails foundation has laid out a trail through the granite slabs to try to protect the petroglyphs. I don't know if it's working. In the past people walked on them without even knowing they were there. Hope they last a while longer.

[BobMc]

If anyone wants to learn more about this stuff this website is about the best: https://www.crowcanyon.org/

Tons of research data, procedures, and site reports.

[TBS]

Bandelier





Weaver's hooks

[BobMc]

More pics…

Hovenweep





Lowry Pueblo





Mesa Verde





Bandeliere















And some ABQ touring

[jackattack]