Wine Geekery

[doebedoe]

Should I not drink this Rhone bottle? Or should I buy another one and sit on it? Am I going to need to just collect wine for the next 5-20 years before I can actually start to enjoy it?

I'm no stranger to cellaring beers, but I kinda want to cook lamb and drink fancy wine now.

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You can drink most Rhone wines at release and have them be quite enjoyable. Unless you're drinking Chateauneuf du Pape or some Gigondas, there are very few that aren't ready right away. The worst that happens is that you open a bottle a bit before it's ready.

That said, if you see any 2016 around on the shelves from a decent producer, buy a couple bottles of it. Drink one now, put one down for 5-10 years. I personally don't really have space to cellar much -- so the only things I have kept in the wine fridge are irreplaceable bottles (gotten on adventures or drunk at our wedding) and a couple of things I bought an extra to lay down after enjoying the first bottle.

This for instance was a <$20 CdR I grabbed recently based on vintage and importer (Skurnik). Syrah dominant (~80%) and just delicious after being decanted for about an hour. That said...it probably will be even more delicious in 5-10 years.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> My cellar is only about four bottles though, it's not really my style.

My cellar isn't even 4 bottles... wine is pretty much an every-day thing for us, so we tend to drink food-friendly, inexpensive stuff. Which, as it turns out, is almost *always* something Italian...

I'm positive if I ever tried to cellar something we would drink it within a year.

[Cruiser]

Drink what you like! That said, I like older wines and I've been stashing stuff in my cellar pretty actively for more than 10y so I can open cool older stuff fairly regularly if we've got the food or the appetite for it.

If I had someone give me that syrah I'd be glad to open it that night but I'd also be glad to throw it in my cellar and forget about it for 7 years.

Either would be good. But if you open it and like it you might pick up a few more and then open them once a year over the next several years in order to watch them mature. Northern Rhone syrah, and really syrah in general, may be the single most rewarding red varietal wine to age.

[skaredshtles]

<snip>
Either would be good. But if you open it and like it you might pick up a few more and then open them once a year over the next several years in order to watch them mature. Northern Rhone syrah, and really syrah in general, may be the single most rewarding red varietal wine to age.

I really should at least *try* to do this... I generally don't buy syrah because it always seems a bit too "fruity" for me. It sounds like cellaring could address this.

[Buke]

Out of curiosity, for those who cellar wines, what kind of space are you storing wine in?

In the last year we've acquired a case of various rather nice wines from Napa and Oregon.

So, I'm looking for some advice, is it worth building a small wine rack in my basement closet or are the temperatures too variable to warrant it.

Here's my situation: I have a finished daylight basement and the closet in the back corner is completely below below ground. It's the coldest part of the house and through the winter it's consistently in the low 60's, but last summer when it was north of 100 degrees in Seattle for a spell the temps rose to 83 in the "cellar". To be fair, I don't know what the temp was in the back corner of the gear closet at the floor against the concrete basement wall but 10' away on top of the gun safe was definitely in the low 80's. I'm under the impression that it's more important that the temps don't swing wildly which is definitely true in this space. I doubt temps ever vary by more than 5 degrees in a 24 hour period year round. But still, low 80's is technically too high for wine storage.

When I first moved into the house the entire wall of this closet had an old built in wine rack that the original owners had installed, probably around the time the house was built in the late 50's. It had some cool old label maker tape with words like "chablis". We ripped the wine racks out because we didn't have any interest in expensive wine at the time and I needed the storage space for all the crap that comes with having little kids.

[schindlerpiste]

I think that unfinished basement crawlspaces are good places to store wines. Unheated, dampish, dark, cool.

[ghosthop]

We are going to experiment with thermoelectric coolers this spring when temps start to warm. I have no interest in spending $500+ for wine storage.

If we decide we're interested in extending aging at some point I will look into more durable or exact storage.

[skaredshtles]

I actually have a pretty nice wine cooler gifted to me several years ago that I've never used...

[oftpiste]

Shitty basement and shelving picked up on the side of the road.

[JimmyCarter]

I actually have a pretty nice wine cooler gifted to me several years ago that I've never used...

Bartles and Jaymes?

[irul&ublo]

Bartles and Jaymes?

Frank and Ed!

[alpinevibes]

We are going to experiment with thermoelectric coolers this spring when temps start to warm. I have no interest in spending $500+ for wine storage.

If we decide we're interested in extending aging at some point I will look into more durable or exact storage.

We got a 16 bottle thermo one that we can stuff 20 into for like $200. Has worked well so far for the longer term stash. Rest of the bottles go under the stairs. It's not quite cool and damp, but a bit bit better than the rest of the house.

[irul&ublo]

Out of curiosity, for those who cellar wines, what kind of space are you storing wine in?

In the last year we've acquired a case of various rather nice wines from Napa and Oregon.

So, I'm looking for some advice, is it worth building a small wine rack in my basement closet or are the temperatures too variable to warrant it.

Here's my situation: I have a finished daylight basement and the closet in the back corner is completely below below ground. It's the coldest part of the house and through the winter it's consistently in the low 60's, but last summer when it was north of 100 degrees in Seattle for a spell the temps rose to 83 in the "cellar". To be fair, I don't know what the temp was in the back corner of the gear closet at the floor against the concrete basement wall but 10' away on top of the gun safe was definitely in the low 80's. I'm under the impression that it's more important that the temps don't swing wildly which is definitely true in this space. I doubt temps ever vary by more than 5 degrees in a 24 hour period year round. But still, low 80's is technically too high for wine storage.

When I first moved into the house the entire wall of this closet had an old built in wine rack that the original owners had installed, probably around the time the house was built in the late 50's. It had some cool old label maker tape with words like "chablis". We ripped the wine racks out because we didn't have any interest in expensive wine at the time and I needed the storage space for all the crap that comes with having little kids.

Wrap your bottles in a few thicknesses of newspaper. How often do you get a heat wave like that?

[Buster Highmen]

I used bookshelves and foam core insulation to build a little 8x8 room in an insulated space on a concrete slab and use a portable air conditioner when it gets hot.
I typically keep the wines in the styrofoam shipping boxes and the temperature in there gets up to 70F during the 100+F heat blasts. 65F is more normal for the 80+F spates. The slab keeps the box temps stable and low..

What I have been told by merchants and wine snoots that what's critical is that the wine isn't shocked by rapid temperature changes. I keep wines for a long time and they've been fine.

[JimmyCarter]

Frank and Ed!

Thank you for your support.

[chaka]

Should I not drink this Rhone bottle? Or should I buy another one and sit on it? Am I going to need to just collect wine for the next 5-20 years before I can actually start to enjoy it?

I'm no stranger to cellaring beers, but I kinda want to cook lamb and drink fancy wine now.

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St Cosme drinks just fine at release. Enjoy the lamb!

Neufox- that is a fine looking Wellington!

[neufox47]

Out of curiosity, for those who cellar wines, what kind of space are you storing wine in?

In the last year we've acquired a case of various rather nice wines from Napa and Oregon.

So, I'm looking for some advice, is it worth building a small wine rack in my basement closet or are the temperatures too variable to warrant it.

Here's my situation: I have a finished daylight basement and the closet in the back corner is completely below below ground. It's the coldest part of the house and through the winter it's consistently in the low 60's, but last summer when it was north of 100 degrees in Seattle for a spell the temps rose to 83 in the "cellar". To be fair, I don't know what the temp was in the back corner of the gear closet at the floor against the concrete basement wall but 10' away on top of the gun safe was definitely in the low 80's. I'm under the impression that it's more important that the temps don't swing wildly which is definitely true in this space. I doubt temps ever vary by more than 5 degrees in a 24 hour period year round. But still, low 80's is technically too high for wine storage.

When I first moved into the house the entire wall of this closet had an old built in wine rack that the original owners had installed, probably around the time the house was built in the late 50's. It had some cool old label maker tape with words like "chablis". We ripped the wine racks out because we didn't have any interest in expensive wine at the time and I needed the storage space for all the crap that comes with having little kids.

The 80’s! Your wine will obviously turn to liquid shit. You need 56 degrees and 70% humidity and don’t even get me started on how vibration from a compressor will ruin your wine as well.


It’ll be fine. You may lose a tiny bit of some flavors or have some unpleasant flavors introduced during an 80 + degree spell but you’ll need a world class palette to tell. My brother, stupidly, stored a bunch of wine in unconditioned space in his apartment near San Jose where the temp during the day often hit the high 80s or 90 inside and anything that had been in there a while was definitely impacted. But that was a lot of temperature swings over years in some instances.

I won’t lie though anything in the 80s would freak me out. Anything prolonged above 70 has me troubled. I currently have wine stored in a crawl space that is overflow that can’t fit in my wine fridges, but I plan on getting it out before the late spring when it starts to get over the high 60s in there.

[dan_pdx]

What I have been told by merchants and wine snoots that what's critical is that the wine isn't shocked by rapid temperature changes. I keep wines for a long time and they've been fine.

Yep, I was drinking at Hair of the Dog years ago and talked to the owner / brewmaster about all the old HotD bottles that he stocks and sells. He said seasonal temperature changes aren't an issue, it's just rapid changes that would be a concern. Granted, that's malty beer, not Napa cabs, but same general idea.

[Buke]

I used bookshelves and foam core insulation to build a little 8x8 room in an insulated space on a concrete slab and use a portable air conditioner when it gets hot.
I typically keep the wines in the styrofoam shipping boxes and the temperature in there gets up to 70F during the 100+F heat blasts. 65F is more normal for the 80+F spates. The slab keeps the box temps stable and low..

What I have been told by merchants and wine snoots that what's critical is that the wine isn't shocked by rapid temperature changes. I keep wines for a long time and they've been fine.

I've thought about boxing out a corner of this closet space with foam insulation and stuffing some cheap home built wine racks inside. The problem is that the space has these large metal shelves that fill the entire space. They're pretty inflexible. Unfortunately. I'm leaning toward building a box within the shelf system, wrapped in foam insulation, to house the wine. This enclosure could back up against a concrete basement wall which would definitely help regulate the temps.

And since this is the wine geekery thread. last summer I bought an Arduino and a temperature/humidity sensor and I've been collecting data every 5 minutes since July 10th. Granted that misses the massive record breaking heat wave from last June but it should still give a pretty good idea of the space. I haven't done too much analysis but I can confirm that there aren't any massive temperature swings in short periods of time.

Since July 10th, with the exception of a 10 day period in September when the sensor got unplugged on accident, I've recorded the following:

Maximum Temperature: 83.66
Minimum Temperature: 55.000

Maximum Humidity: 76.46
Minimum Humidity: 28.8

minutes over 80 4420
days over 80 3.1

minutes over 75 57340
days over 75 39.8

minutes under 50% humidity 129290
days under 50% humidity 89.78472222

[Buster Highmen]

Rip out the shitty shelves and insulate around the concrete, exposing as much concrete as you can. Use that thermal mass.

My little grotto does amazingly well. I keep the best ones close to the floor.

I got one of those portable air conditioners to keep it cool on the 100f+ days. Can you do that?

[doebedoe]

My friend is an asshole...(I'm the first comment, he's the reply)

[tgapp]

Alright y'all, it's time for another edition of Wine Jong Reviews Somewhat Fancy Wines. Here are the rules:

- No reading other people's dribble on the internet first - I don't want their bougie tastes influencing mine
- No real knowledge of what the fuck I'm doing, or what a "young syrah" even is
- No idea of how people review wine. Some idea of how people review coffee and whiskey.


Okay, let's begin. Today we're drinking the 2019 Saint Cosme Saint-Joseph from Gigondas. Who is Saint-Joseph? How about Saint Cosme? Where is Gigondas? All good questions, which I definitely don't know the answer to. There is a helpful compass rose on the label though, letting me know which way North is.

Color: wine colored, you dip shit.
Nose: Plum, oak, vanilla, clear alcohol on the nose. Wasn't expecting alcohol on the nose. Is that a red flag? Can't ignore at this point.
Taste: Raspberry/cherry, oak, light vanilla. Fruit forward, bracing acidity, surprisingly soft and big bodied (surprising only to someone who knows fuckall about wine I guess - I didn't expect something to be both "soft" and "acidic" if that even makes sense ). Lingering impression of chalk, which I think in winespeak is called "minerality"?. Barest hint of spice, but that could be the alcohol burn.
Finish: Dry. I don't know what else to say. Very dry? I guess that's relative. Definitely dry though.


--

If I wanted something like this but with an acidity that was less "on the nose", what would I buy?


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[doebedoe]

Very good winemaker and very good location-- but its St. Joseph not Gigondas. St Joseph is a northern rhone appelation, Gigondas is a few hours south. I don't know that wine but I would bet it's majority Syrah, rather than most Southern Rhones which are more grenache heavy. Just like in coffee, nerds about wine tend to dig acidity a great deal as it makes for wines that go great with food, wines that aren't "flabby" (e.g. overly just fruit and booze) and wines that age well.

For a fun comparison, a decent Aussie shiraz (same grape as syrah) will likely have less acid but still show similar fruit character. Penfolds is widely available and they rarely put out any swill.

If you're feeling spendy...a bottle of something from Hermitage is the most classical expression of syrah I can think of. (Note..Crozes Hermitage is not hermitage...it's much different soil and aspects of the famed hill.) Cote Rotie and Cornas are also excellent.

[tgapp]

Very good winemaker and very good location-- but its St. Joseph not Gigondas. St Joseph is a northern rhone appelation, Gigondas is a few hours south. I don't know that wine but I would bet it's majority Syrah, rather than most Southern Rhones which are more grenache heavy. Just like in coffee, nerds about wine tend to dig acidity a great deal as it makes for wines that go great with food, wines that aren't "flabby" (e.g. overly just fruit and booze) and wines that age well.

For a fun comparison, a decent Aussie shiraz (same grape as syrah) will likely have less acid but still show similar fruit character. Penfolds is widely available and they rarely put out any swill.

If you're feeling spendy...a bottle of something from Hermitage is the most classical expression of syrah I can think of. (Note..Crozes Hermitage is not hermitage...it's much different soil and aspects of the famed hill.) Cote Rotie and Cornas are also excellent.

Wine Jong doesn't make up shit, he just reads what's on the label. WTF even is a Gigondas?

But yeah, valid point about the acidity. To be fair, I was sipping on this while cooking (lamb), so I'll pour myself another glass when I sit down to eat. And I don't want a totally neutered bottle, maybe just something not as edgy. We'll see when I drink this with dinner.

And shiraz and syrah are the same thing?? Shiraz just sounds cheaper, like the rhinestone of the wine world. Damn.

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[tgapp]

Okay yeah the whole wine and food thing, I get it, I really fucking get it.


Food softens the acidity, brings out way more mineral complexity (while still maintaining the fruity goodness), and takes the edge off the finish.

Damn this works well.

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