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Thread: Wine Geekery

  1. #126
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    bumping this shit to the top because I need drinks after digesting too many bushleaguewacka posts, and no one answered my cellaring inquiry

  2. #127
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    Littorai Pinot Noirs are da shizzle.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by PB View Post
    Littorai Pinot Noirs are da shizzle.
    yup.
    My mantra: Hirsch, Peay, Occidental/old Kistler, Littorai. In that order.
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  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaka View Post
    paging neufox47, Buster and other sauternes, dessert wine buffs to the Dentist Wine Hotline... cellaring guidance please for a Huet Cuvee Constance?Attachment 388245
    Oooo, sorry, missed this.
    The pertinent question is how old are you and remember that drinking after 70 should be curtailed.

    I haven't had that bottling, but old Foreaus I've had are celestial.
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  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaka View Post
    paging neufox47, Buster and other sauternes, dessert wine buffs to the Dentist Wine Hotline... cellaring guidance please for a Huet Cuvee Constance?Attachment 388245
    Sorry mate, looks like an amazing bottle that should age for a while but I don’t know enough to give you guidance on the peak / window.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaka View Post
    Have a couple of these patiently waiting in the cellar, along with a few Lytton Springs Syrah and Monte Bellos.... When we are in the mood for big reds, Ridge is a long time favorite. Attachment 388244
    Solid wine there. I love some 10-20 year old petite Syrah. Any time I open PS that is less than 10 I feel like I’m committing vinocide.

  7. #132
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    Okay I hate to ask this question, but if I wanted to explore middle end wines, where is a good place to start? Assume for the sake of argument that I have a decent understanding of varietals and a basic bitch palate (I like malbecs and zins when I have to drink wine, I also enjoy cab sav). Level of dryness and tannin is no issue, I just want to stick my pinky toe into the world of "real" wine, rather than drinking the $10-20 bottles I would otherwise stick with.

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  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    Solid wine there. I love some 10-20 year old petite Syrah. Any time I open PS that is less than 10 I feel like I’m committing vinocide.
    I think it's called vinfanticide.
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  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    Okay I hate to ask this question, but if I wanted to explore middle end wines, where is a good place to start? Assume for the sake of argument that I have a decent understanding of varietals and a basic bitch palate (I like malbecs and zins when I have to drink wine, I also enjoy cab sav). Level of dryness and tannin is no issue, I just want to stick my pinky toe into the world of "real" wine, rather than drinking the $10-20 bottles I would otherwise stick with.

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    I don't know shit about anything but pinot noir and sauternes/barsac with a smiDge of chardonnay, chenin blanc.
    And even then, my knowledge is stilted and embittered by the outrageous price increases in red burgundy (French), not to mention pinot in general.

    That said I think there's some decent values in Oregon pinot noirs by Patricia Green, Broadley (their estate was always a stalwart value), Bergstrom, Willakenzie.
    There's a slew of decent Cali pinots, like above, my favs include Rhys, Rivers Marie, Hirsch, Peay, older Kistlers, Littorai, but you're really talking $60+ for those. Less $ but still good include Failla, Siduri, Patz & Hall,

    Frog juice is harder and more erratic. Good years include 1996, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2005, 2009, 2010, 2013, 2015.
    Still occasionally affordable vintners include Jean Marc Boillot, the cheaper Henri Gouges bottles, the cheaper Frederic Magnien bottles. Jadot makes some good ones as does Faiveley.

    French Burgundy is broken down into 4 classes, defined and enforced by the Appelation Controlle Origine (AOC) rules.
    Bourgogne
    Village
    Premier Cru
    Grand Cru.

    Forget the latter 2, they've gotten too expensive. So now I occasionally buy village or bourgogne from good vintners like any of the Boillots (J-M, Henri or Louis), Geantet-Pansiot, Hudelot-Noillat.. the list goes on...
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  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    Okay I hate to ask this question, but if I wanted to explore middle end wines, where is a good place to start? Assume for the sake of argument that I have a decent understanding of varietals and a basic bitch palate (I like malbecs and zins when I have to drink wine, I also enjoy cab sav). Level of dryness and tannin is no issue, I just want to stick my pinky toe into the world of "real" wine, rather than drinking the $10-20 bottles I would otherwise stick with.

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    To be honest -- there's lots of very good (not great) bottles in that 10-20 range.

    The best trick I have found is learning to shop the back label for non-domestic wines -- e.g. learn which importers and distributors you like. Each has a palette, approach, specialty that you can learn to rely on and branch out from. Kermit Lynch is perhaps the most iconic. My palette typically enjoys some more off beat stuff from Rosenthal and Louis/Dressner. For values in the austrian/german space -- Skurnik, for value spanish, Eric Solomon. De Masion Selections and Winebow also both have huge books of good wines.

    And then there is learning your states local distributors who will also often be on the back -- here in CO for me that is Natural Wine CO and Anvil Wines for top marks.

    Finally -- if you find a shop that carries a lot of these importers/distributors -- talking to the folks who buy the wine will almost always net good results. I basically rely holy upon good shop support in buying US products unless I really happen to know the winemaker or operation (which I rarely do because I find I get more for the money elsewhere despite the stupid 3-tier system.)


    Or you can just get drunk and do I what do on occassion: buy a case from Kermit Lynch online to resupply.

  11. #136
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    Hey a thread for my people. I've spent the last 10+ years kind of cycling down busters vinferno here before jumping out of the industry a couple years back. I still wear the "wine technologist" hat from time to time but mostly I'm just a geek now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
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    Currently working our way through a bunch of budget Loire I picked up a month or so back. Last night was this little winner of a VdP Cab Franc. Packed a nice nose with some tannic structure all while staying light and acid- really the style I am enjoying most for reds these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    Okay I hate to ask this question, but if I wanted to explore middle end wines, where is a good place to start? Assume for the sake of argument that I have a decent understanding of varietals and a basic bitch palate (I like malbecs and zins when I have to drink wine, I also enjoy cab sav). Level of dryness and tannin is no issue, I just want to stick my pinky toe into the world of "real" wine, rather than drinking the $10-20 bottles I would otherwise stick with.
    tgapp, what wines do you not like? That can help steer the ship as much as your preferences. If you have mostly been enjoying zin, malbecs, and cab (I'm guessing California and Argentina) and you want to push that further I'd suggest one stay in the same ball park of heavier varietals from warmer climates. Those are all typically medium to (very) low acid wines were they are also letting the grapes get really ripe, ie bigger flavors and higher alcohol.

    For zin: Ridge is the gold standard, I think the prices have gone up recently but should be a lot available under $50. Biale, also noted upthread, is another benchmark producer. Some other good options from Paso Robles but they are really pushing the limits with the low acid ripeness IMO.
    For Malbec: Cahors is a French AOP were they only make Malbec. Less plummy and more firm then Argentina. Fairly inexpensive.
    Cab: Go Bordeaux between 20-30. There is a lot to love in this range even for folks who poo-poo on BDX. While there is plenty to enjoy I don't think there is much value for consumers in California cabs these days. I'm sure there is some good stuff that has come online in WA the last 10 years, probably some folks can chime in on that.

  12. #137
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    IMO the best way to spend $25-30 on red wine is village level cotes du rhone. Few wines in the world offer as much engaging interplay between fruit and non fruit while still delivering the richness and body that modern consumers want than those of the southern rhone. Chateauneuf du pape is the best known and most expensive, quickly followed by gigondas, but the quality coming from rasteau, plan de dieu, sablet, and others is improving so quickly that you're not sacrificing all the much quality or interest by skipping cdp in favor of one of the other villages. '15 and '16 are the vintages to buy if you can find any still hanging around on you local store's shelves.

    Be warned tho, do not fall in love with the wines of the northern rhone unless you have a lot of cash to devote to stocking a cellar as the wines are comically expensive, hard to get, and very slow to mature.
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  13. #138
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    CdR and CdP are great ideas for that price range for someone who likes Zin / Malbec / Cabs as well. I'd echo the Cahors comment too, as they make a ton of great, big, winter-food type wines for very reasonable prices.

    Similar values to CdR can be found in Rioja, where even a very good bottle from well known produces like La Rioja Alta can be had in the $40 range. Think Rioja / tempranillo is a good step from the above varietals. Priorat is also making a bunch of great wines on the full side that are granacha based like CdR, and like CdR is typically blended although the varietals tend more to Cab Sav and Syrah.

  14. #139
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    One of the real selling points in rioja is bottle age. There's nowhere else in the wine world that regularly ages the wines for you. If you enjoy the taste of older red wine but don't have a bunch of it in your cellar then you can go to a good shop and find 5-10yo rioja that hasn't been sitting in some shitty warehouse in new jersey but instead resting peacefully in the winery's own cellar. Track down a bottle or 3 from Lopez de Heredia for a taste of the ultimate old school style of aged rioja.

    That said, rioja often lacks the richness and density that modern consumers crave. As a result, I encourage folks to consider tempranillo from Ribera del Duero instead as their style is usually more opulent while still retaining that characteristic European dryness on the finish that is all too often lacking in similarly priced reds from California.
    Brandine: Now Cletus, if I catch you with pig lipstick on your collar one more time you ain't gonna be allowed to sleep in the barn no more!
    Cletus: Duly noted.

  15. #140
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    Wine Geekery

    I think there is still value in CA cabs, just often not if the labs says Napa. Sonoma, Paso Robles, are also dwindling in value. But I recently had a very good Cabernet Sauvignon from the FairPlay area of the Sierra Foothills.

    I’ve bought a bunch of no label wine off De Negoce and been largely happy with them. You have to wait at least 6 months with any of the “futures” wines. Really should wait a year or two minimum most of the time. But some very solid value buys. You wouldn’t want to order a whole case when exploring but some buys in their bottle shop are definitely worth it.

    I strongly recommend you take your wife on a trip to wine country and do a bunch of tastings. You won’t get super geographical spread but will learn a lot about your pallet and what you like as long as you go to an area that has diverse offerings.


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  16. #141
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    Wine Geekery

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruiser View Post
    One of the real selling points in rioja is bottle age. There's nowhere else in the wine world that regularly ages the wines for you. If you enjoy the taste of older red wine but don't have a bunch of it in your cellar then you can go to a good shop and find 5-10yo rioja that hasn't been sitting in some shitty warehouse in new jersey but instead resting peacefully in the winery's own cellar. Track down a bottle or 3 from Lopez de Heredia for a taste of the ultimate old school style of aged rioja.

    That said, rioja often lacks the richness and density that modern consumers crave. As a result, I encourage folks to consider tempranillo from Ribera del Duero instead as their style is usually more opulent while still retaining that characteristic European dryness on the finish that is all too often lacking in similarly priced reds from California.

    Garagiste has some 2012 Marques de Caceres gran cru rioja for $25 a bottle today. Thoughts?

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    Garagiste has some 2012 Marques de Caceres gran cru rioja for $25 a bottle today. Thoughts?
    Seemed like a decent buy for that segment, but not a crazy bargain.

    But speaking of bargains... how about the melchior of 2018 Chateau Haut Bailly Pessac-Leognan for $4,986.70 up today? Mega cellar flex

  18. #143
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  19. #144
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    Well fuck… when your industry friend drops by with $500 worth of bottles and gets you drunk on hump day

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  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    Garagiste has some 2012 Marques de Caceres gran cru rioja for $25 a bottle today. Thoughts?
    That one might be a $40 retail under ordinary circumstances. '12 is a neat vintage tho and should be very drinkable today.
    Brandine: Now Cletus, if I catch you with pig lipstick on your collar one more time you ain't gonna be allowed to sleep in the barn no more!
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  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinevibes View Post
    Well fuck… when your industry friend drops by with $500 worth of bottles and gets you drunk on hump day

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    One of the few places in the world where a rep gets to open bottles like that to taste is the RFV.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinevibes View Post
    Well fuck… when your industry friend drops by with $500 worth of bottles and gets you drunk on hump day

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    Fun to see some old friends in that lineup. Have tasted many of those over a bunch of vintages. I have a couple of old bottles of Legaris in my cellar. Perhaps '03 & '04. I drank an '03 a couple years ago and was impressed by how well it'd held up. I actually think I have an '00 Redortier reserve something or other stem there that's prolly well over the hill by now.
    Brandine: Now Cletus, if I catch you with pig lipstick on your collar one more time you ain't gonna be allowed to sleep in the barn no more!
    Cletus: Duly noted.

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruiser View Post
    Fun to see some old friends in that lineup. Have tasted many of those over a bunch of vintages. I have a couple of old bottles of Legaris in my cellar. Perhaps '03 & '04. I drank an '03 a couple years ago and was impressed by how well it'd held up. I actually think I have an '00 Redortier reserve something or other stem there that's prolly well over the hill by now.
    The Legaris was great for the price point, no doubt.

    Unfortunately I had to go give blood for a health screen this morning... Really unideal situation for a hangover and fasting.

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    Solid wine there. I love some 10-20 year old petite Syrah. Any time I open PS that is less than 10 I feel like I’m committing vinocide.
    yeah... they need a loooong time to open up also.

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Oooo, sorry, missed this.
    The pertinent question is how old are you and remember that drinking after 70 should be curtailed.
    Thankfully I could age it a couple more decades before running the risk of imbibing too much after 70...

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