Tool Time

[toast2266]

Just use a 3.5 flat head and a hammer. Whack it in hard till it sets up, then you are good to remove.

I wonder if Gunder has a special fancy German version of that tool.

[XXX-er]

I supose the last SRAM I bought was in 2005 in any case it was good to get my shit together

[Gunder]

I wonder if Gunder has a special fancy German version of that tool.

For flat screwdrivers, I have two types, PBSwiss and Wera. PBSwiss is about as good as it gets when it comes to screwdrivers, and while I like all of theirs the flat heads are what really set them apart. I use these for more "precision" stuff. For shit that wont move, or needs some persuasion, or just general beater use, I use Wera's that have a solid through shank that also accepts a ¼ drive ratchet for extra leverage.

What really sets these two drivers apart is the tips.

The PBSwiss tips are what they call hollow ground. The tips are ground perfectly flat, so they wont distort the fastens and they wont cam out under torque like a standard screw driver with the wedge tip will. Both have hardened tips, but the PBSwiss is harder and wears better. For JIS I have a Vessel brand one. I think theirs come a close second to PBSwiss / Wera and I have also heard the Nepros are quite good, and if they are of the same quality as their ratchets that I own, they would be worth a look as well. I might actually consider those once I eventually wear out the PBSwiss Phillips.

Just remember, flatheads are not chisels, punches, drifts or scrapers, so always use the right tool for the task at hand.

[EWG]

Screwdrivers: I’m buying a set of Wiha unless Gunder or Dee can talk me into buying Wera or PB Swiss instead.

Go.

[Dee Hubbs]

Screwdrivers: I’m buying a set of Wiha unless Gunder or Dee can talk me into buying Wera or PB Swiss instead.

Go.

You can’t go wrong between those 3 brands.
“Pick a brand and be a dick about it”

[adrenalated]

Buy Craftsman screwdrivers from the Ace Hardware. Use them as pry bars, chisels, scrapers, punches, etc. and occasionally on screws for a couple years. Post back here with pics of the result. Watch Gunder go into full meltdown mode. Profit.

[east or bust]

Was gunna say, I’ve had no problems using Husky brand screwdrivers. Can’t imagine spending $$$ on such an expendable tool.


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[EWG]

Buy Craftsman screwdrivers from the Ace Hardware. Use them as pry bars, chisels, scrapers, punches, etc. and occasionally on screws for a couple years. Post back here with pics of the result. Watch Gunder go into full meltdown mode. Profit.

Tempting.

[toast2266]

Buy Craftsman screwdrivers from the Ace Hardware. Use them as pry bars, chisels, scrapers, punches, etc. and occasionally on screws for a couple years. Post back here with pics of the result. Watch Gunder go into full meltdown mode. Profit.

And when they break, round out, or bend, take them back and get another one for free. Lifetime warranty.

[Gunder]

Screwdrivers: I’m buying a set of Wiha unless Gunder or Dee can talk me into buying Wera or PB Swiss instead.

Go.

If you go with Wiha, I'd start with this set.
When I used to do Camera Repair for a living, we had a full master set of Wiha's precision drivers. They are the gold standard for that application. I'm just not a fan of their full size screw drivers, as I dont like the feel in my hand.

For precision drivers, I own a full set of Wera, and a full set of Vessel. The Vessel, ones are hands down the best that I have used. I'd even buy them over Wiha, and they are WAY cheaper!


I am also a big fan of Festool's centrotec system. The quality of the drivers is the best I have ever used hands down. They are significantly better than my PBSwiss ¼ hex bits!

I do not know who makes those bits... If I did I'd stock pile them. However, I do know that Wiha does make the screwdriver handle for them. I have not been able to find this exact quick release lock in a Wiha form (many look the same, but none are, and I have tried them all). That quick release works on both ¼ drive hex bits as well as the centrotec ones, and is 100% as solid as a dedicated driver. I am VERY impressed with it.

The biggest issue with Wiha, is they no longer keep production to Germany and Switzerland, so the quality now varies quite a bit by where it is produced. They make a lot of stuff in Vietnam now... so buyer beware.

You can’t go wrong between those 3 brands.
“Pick a brand and be a dick about it”

All of the premium screwdriver companies make good stuff and its all lightyears ahead of shitty hardware store crap. Screwdrivers are one of the most used tools you will own, so while they are consumables, it makes sense to invest in good quality ones. They are kind of the gateway drug into high end tools in my mind. Once you experience true quality, you start to expect it elsewhere.
High-end screwdrivers last forever (I've had my PBSwiss set for over a decade now) compared to the hardware store variety, plus they wont strip fasteners, as the fit is way better, so they will save you time and money in the long run. At the end of the day, when it comes to screw drivers, you want something that A, feels good in the hand, B, has good tolerance control on the fastener fit, C, is hard enough it will last !

PBSwiss makes the most comfortable screwdrivers I haver ever used (personal preference). Their flathead drivers are by far the best of the best. Their Hex and Torx are widely regarded as some of the best wearing and best fitting ones.... only thing in their line that I am not 100% blown away with is the Philips / JIS drivers. They are very good, but I'd be interested in testing more Vessel, Nepros, etc for those. Wera makes good quality economical screwdrivers, but I am not super stoked on how they fit in my hands. Note, I absolutely hate the way the Vessel ball grip ones feel / perform.

My advice is if you go with one set of premium screw drivers, get a set that has a metal tang all the way through the grip, as being able to put the screw driver into a faster, and then hit the end of the screw driver with a hammer, almost always frees stuck fasteners. I have a Wera set, just for this reason, as it also allows me to use a ¼ drive ratchet for move leverage.

On a side note, I really like how PBSwiss indicates the driver and the size on the ends, as it makes it super quick to always grab the correct one out of my rack.


At the end of the day, my advice would be to order a #2 Phillips on amazon from all of the major quality mfg's and see what feels best, and then return the rest.

Buy Craftsman screwdrivers from the Ace Hardware. Use them as pry bars, chisels, scrapers, punches, etc. and occasionally on screws for a couple years. Post back here with pics of the result. Watch Gunder go into full meltdown mode. Profit.

You can lead a horse to water, but you cant force it to drink.
I started out with a full set of Craftsman USA made tools. I have put all of the USA made stuff in storage to give my son as a first tool set when he is ready... That being said, their standard line of screwdrivers is basically made of butter, it sucks even for a set of pry bars, chisels etc. I do own some of their "Profesional" line screw drivers.... those are clearly made by a different manufacture and are way better made, and I keep a few as they are super long. I have also on occasion ground them, to make custom tools. In this case a spring tool for working on snowmobiles.

Was gunna say, I’ve had no problems using Husky brand screwdrivers. Can’t imagine spending $$$ on such an expendable tool.

It's probably the most used tool you will own, so it makes sense to buy good quality ones that last 10X longer than the cheap shit. Plus, I dont think I have stripped a single fastener, since I switched to premium screwdrivers, that alone makes them cost effective very quickly.

And when they break, round out, or bend, take them back and get another one for free. Lifetime warranty.

The problem, is the new Chinese shit, they will replace your old USA made stuff with is a total joke. Not even worth the trip to the store. Plus all of the high end companies offer a pretty solid lifetime warranty these days, and chances are you wont even need it.

[Gunder]

One more note, on the ski side of things, I have a PBSwiss #8 flat driver that I use exclusively, for setting the main DIN adjustment on Dynafit bindings. Its the only driver I have ever found that will properly fit and not distort the lightweight AL cap screw for the DIN adjustment.
Attachment 420012
Attachment 420013

[XXX-er]

i use a loonie or a toonie for that ^^ adjustment

[Gunder]

i use a loonie or a toonie for that ^^ adjustment

Those seem tough to come by on this side of the boarder these days. Back in the camera repair days, they where the go-to for opening stuck battery doors. Nothing else fit as well. Now a days, I have one of these:

It works really well for the battery doors on the AXS shifters, as you can easily access them with it, without having to remove from bike to get a toonie in there.

BY the way did someone delete another post? I was going to reply to it, but it seems to have vanished.

[adrenalated]

BY the way did someone delete another post? I was going to reply to it, but it seems to have vanished.

I did, I decided it didn't add enough value to be worth keeping.
BTW do you have a link to the #8 PB Swiss that you mentioned? I don't have any Dynafiddles anymore but I never did have a good tool for that stupid main DIN adjustment screw.

[Gunder]

I did, I decided it didn't add enough value to be worth keeping.
BTW do you have a link to the #8 PB Swiss that you mentioned? I don't have any Dynafiddles anymore but I never did have a good tool for that stupid main DIN adjustment screw.

I actually thought you had some good points in there that I was going to comment on.

No link on the #8. I bought mine at a Hardware store in Verbier when I blew up a pair of Dynafit on a work trip.

[adrenalated]

lol, OK well then I'll try to summarize some of what I said then.

I'm kinda of the opinion that high end tools have their place and I certainly admire your dedication to always using the best available, but I do think it can be a bit overkill for a lot of people.

Like for screwdrivers in particular - for high end electronics and such, precision definitely matters. I don't really do any of that though.

For general purpose though? I'm less sure. I don't use my screwdrivers that much. But I also think that screw heads are the worst possible fastener type, especially if tightening torque is at all important. As such I tend to replace everything with hex (internal or external) or star head fasteners whenever possible. On my bikes I think the only screw fastener is the little dust cover on a Shimano shifter, and you don't want much torque on that. Even for construction use I prefer to spend a little more on screws and use star drives over Phillips most of the time. My hex keys are by far my most used tools, followed by open ends/ratchets/sockets/etc, then everything else.

For screwdrivers I have some old USA Craftsman that won't die, some newer Craftsman Pro that's pretty good, and a Kobalt that I somehow randomly acquired that's not bad. The new standard Craftsman I agree is garbage so I just get the cheaper garbage Ace brand ones and don't mind beating on them. I do have a Wiha pozi that's holding up well but I'm not a fan of the handle. My work bought me a bunch of Husky tools and all of them are terrible.

Worth noting that where I live is very rural, but Ace and True Value are both one block away so it's very low effort for me to go swap out broken tools. Getting anything shipped to me is a minimum of a week though - everything is always delayed here.

[XXX-er]

the mother corp used to buy tools and I could just order them up for free, a lot of excelite screw drivers which were pretty good I think I used the same one for 30 yrs, a lot of snap-on stuff

Those seem tough to come by on this side of the boarder these days. Back in the camera repair days, they where the go-to for opening stuck battery doors. Nothing else fit as well.
It works really well for the battery doors on the AXS shifters, as you can easily access them with it, without having to remove from bike to get a toonie in there.

BY the way did someone delete another post? I was going to reply to it, but it seems to have vanished.

Yup its the money for sure !

Yeah something wierd happened with the thread

BTW the loonie is being discontinued, too many Newfies busting their teeth trying to get the chocolate out

[abraham]

Saw this today and thought of this thread. When you need to loosen something and not be right there, two fused rockets and a wrench.

[John_B]

Saw this today and thought of this thread. When you need to loosen something and not be right there, two fused rockets and a wrench.

Gunder already has one but it uses 3 rockets and is made by the Swiss.

[Gunder]

lol, OK well then I'll try to summarize some of what I said then.

I'm kinda of the opinion that high end tools have their place and I certainly admire your dedication to always using the best available, but I do think it can be a bit overkill for a lot of people.

True, at least this might give some people in education in what is out there.

Like for screwdrivers in particular - for high end electronics and such, precision definitely matters. I don't really do any of that though.

For general purpose though? I'm less sure. I don't use my screwdrivers that much. But I also think that screw heads are the worst possible fastener type, especially if tightening torque is at all important. As such I tend to replace everything with hex (internal or external) or star head fasteners whenever possible. On my bikes I think the only screw fastener is the little dust cover on a Shimano shifter, and you don't want much torque on that. Even for construction use I prefer to spend a little more on screws and use star drives over Phillips most of the time. My hex keys are by far my most used tools, followed by open ends/ratchets/sockets/etc, then everything else.

Are hex and Torx drive still not screw drivers? I do agree with you that flat and Phillips are the two worst types of heads. I trying to replace everything with Torx where possible, but on a lot of the old machinery tools I have been resorting, its a lot of flat head, and in not very common threads.

For wood screws, I almost exclusively use SPAX or their equivalent these days. They just work better. If I recall the Phillips standard was basically designed to cam out when used with power drivers as back then, they didnt have torque sensing power drivers. Now days, Torx heads are by far the best way to go. Speaking of screws, nothing I hate more than when people use drywall screws instead of proper wood screws. The previous homeowner built our entire fence using them. Every time the windblows, I am out their replacing panels and using proper SPAX screws. At this point I have just about rebuilt the entire fence one panel at the time.

I am also a big fan of using ball-end hex screwdrivers and Torx screw drivers for assembly jobs. I find they make any project easier, and quicker to assemble.

However I NEVER use a ball end driver to break a faster loose or for final torque. They have less meat to engage the fastener with (as you can see in the image above) and your more likely to strip it. I always use hex / Torx sockets for disassembly / final torque.

For screwdrivers I have some old USA Craftsman that won't die, some newer Craftsman Pro that's pretty good, and a Kobalt that I somehow randomly acquired that's not bad. The new standard Craftsman I agree is garbage so I just get the cheaper garbage Ace brand ones and don't mind beating on them. I do have a Wiha pozi that's holding up well but I'm not a fan of the handle. My work bought me a bunch of Husky tools and all of them are terrible.

Worth noting that where I live is very rural, but Ace and True Value are both one block away so it's very low effort for me to go swap out broken tools. Getting anything shipped to me is a minimum of a week though - everything is always delayed here.

Kobalt hand tool used to be made by Williams which is Snapon's Industrial tool brand and where of very high quality, but that all went away when they switched manufactures, and lets face it chinesium is shitty for any tool.

A lot of tools are rebranded from a handful of MFG's and with Snapon in particular, if you can figure out who is the actual OEM of a patisuclar tool you can often save more than 50% by buying OEM, such as Wilde for many of there snap ring pliers, etc, etc. The Williams sockets are very close to being the same as non flank drive Snapon. CDI torque wrenches are Identical to Snapon, other than the grip and are 50% of the cost, even tho Snapon owns CDI.

I used to be a 20 min drive from the closest hardware store. It got real old real quick having to make a trip in the middle of a project for a specific fastener, so any time I needed one, I'd always buy a box, so I have plenty on hand. It's amazing how much time that has saved me over the years.

I now have a very complete collection thats all organized by thread size in these old Safe deposit box's and other random hardware / wood screws etc in the Red bins above.

the mother corp used to buy tools and I could just order them up for free, a lot of excelite screw drivers which were pretty good I think I used the same one for 30 yrs, a lot of snap-on stuff

I think my dad still has some excelite drivers. Those things where pretty damn good, but just goes to show how most hardware store level stuff has been in a constant decline.

Saw this today and thought of this thread. When you need to loosen something and not be right there, two fused rockets and a wrench.

You got me a tool I dont own! Where is the link to buy as you never know when you will have to defuse a bomb in the backyard... then again chocolate usually works for that.

[adrenalated]

Ah, good question! When I think of "screwdriver" I think of flat and Phillips specifically, not hex and Torx. Although you can certainly buy hex and Torx drivers and you can install screws with them :shrug: I know that's how many tool brands classify them, just not how I do.

I don't have or want a full set of drivers for everything - I stick with sockets for the most part. For various reasons I like tools that can do multiple things and adapt to different uses. Makes my tool kit more portable and easier to use.

This is my favorite combo:



This is a 1/4" drive but I've been looking for a 3/8" extension like this, with a molded handle and ability to accept a ratchet at the other end. I have plenty of 3/8" extensions with knurled shafts and a 3/8" drivers with a molded handle but no solid thru shank to accept a ratchet, but can't find a driver that has a molded handle AND can take a ratchet. Who makes this?

[Gunder]

Ah, good question! When I think of "screwdriver" I think of flat and Phillips specifically, not hex and Torx. Although you can certainly buy hex and Torx drivers and you can install screws with them :shrug: I know that's how many tool brands classify them, just not how I do.

I don't have or want a full set of drivers for everything - I stick with sockets for the most part. For various reasons I like tools that can do multiple things and adapt to different uses. Makes my tool kit more portable and easier to use.

This is my favorite combo:



This is a 1/4" drive but I've been looking for a 3/8" extension like this, with a molded handle and ability to accept a ratchet at the other end. I have plenty of 3/8" extensions with knurled shafts and a 3/8" drivers with a molded handle but no solid thru shank to accept a ratchet, but can't find a driver that has a molded handle AND can take a ratchet. Who makes this?

That’s a real odd ball. Never seen one like that. Question, do you get a lot of flex / wobble with that setup ?

[adrenalated]

That’s a real odd ball. Never seen one like that. Question, do you get a lot of flex / wobble with that setup ?

Same as a socket on any other extension.

Edit: I guess I won the stump Gunder challenge?

[Dee Hubbs]

Same as a socket on any other extension.

Edit: I guess I won the stump Gunder challenge?

https://www.bahco.com/int_en/3-8--sq...-pb_7757_.html

https://www.mactools.com/products/x6...4882b76a&_ss=r

https://www.toolpan.com/Vim-Tool-HD5...n_p_37724.html

SNAP-ON F50CSA discontinued, must find on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/p/1824789034

[Gunder]

Same as a socket on any other extension.

Edit: I guess I won the stump Gunder challenge?

Wasn't the challenge to come up with a tool that provides a capability that I don't have?

Anyways, I do have a full set of these and I think they pretty much do what your are trying to do, but as dedicated drivers:


For socket extensions, I like them to be as low profile as possible, as clearance is usually an issue when you need one.
And I have a full set of Snapon ones in ¼, ⅜ and ½


I like the Snapon ones as they have a dual engagement tip.


When the socket is first pressed on, you have a wobble extension, that is great for hard to access points, where you dont have the clearance for a swivel.


Push the socket farther on and its fully rigid.