New Burro Pass Route in ‘2023!

[fastfred]

the final stake in the heart of moab now forever officially ruined
my town should be next in line
some huge amazing trees up there

[grskier]

I just spent my first real amount of time up there this spring. A special place for sure. I hope they start getting some containment soon.

[Canada1]

In my experience most Moab campers are pretty low key. My bad experiences have been with large groups of young Europeans who seemed like it was their first experience and their camps were a bit of a rave. Trash and literal shit everywhere when they left. You just get tremendous diversity of people out there.

It really sucks that in our lifetime this place will never be what it was because some dumbass didn't have basic skills, or was just to lazy to do it right.

[grskier]

It really sucks that in our lifetime this place will never be what it was because some dumbass didn't have basic skills, or was just to lazy to do it right.

This x 100

[Touring_Sedan]

In my experience most Moab campers are pretty low key.

I think that rang true before the pandemic. Now it's a shitshow. Literally. Poop... everywhere.

[rideit]

Did any of you camp up Sand Flats Road before the gate or Slickrock parking area with bathrooms was put in?
There was toilet paper flying from every campground bush, it was gross.

[muted reborn]

Anyone who is against the new management strategy to remove disbursed camping I point to these incidents. Less rogue camping, more metal fire rings, and more bathrooms. There is no downside minus "muh freedom!"

Yes it expands the federal government's role in our lives and no I don't care if people are scared of that. We need babysitting because of morons

What is this new management strategy? Never heard of it. In the FS only presume? Is it widespread or just some small pockets?

While I think getting rid of some dispersed camping locations that are have been problem areas for years is a good idea, getting rid of all dispersed camping is the most ridiculous horrible idea I've heard in a long time. Shockingly bad idea, really. Unless all the campers can fit in already created designated campsites, and these campsites are not booked months in advance like many places out West, then sure. We need a ton more designated campsites then.

And then it will all burn anyways thanks to a lightening strike one year, ha.

[Dantheman]

Well, I'd argue the downside is that makes it almost impossible to avoid camping within close proximity of some dipshit who runs a generator from the moment he arrives until the moment he leaves, parties with a bluetooth speaker until 3 a.m., and enjoys doing laps around the campsite on his straight piped ATV.

Yes, there are huge downsides. If you could only camp in developed campgrounds I'd probably quit camping.

[snowaddict91]

What is this new management strategy? Never heard of it. In the FS only presume? Is it widespread or just some small pockets?

While I think getting rid of some dispersed camping locations that are have been problem areas for years is a good idea, getting rid of all dispersed camping is the most ridiculous horrible idea I've heard in a long time. Shockingly bad idea, really. Unless all the campers can fit in already created designated campsites, and these campsites are not booked months in advance like many places out West, then sure. We need a ton more designated campsites then.

And then it will all burn anyways thanks to a lightening strike one year, ha.

Many areas in CO are moving to designated camping only. They are converting old dispersed spots to designated spots. I'm not totally against that, but long term they are going to go to reservations, which sucks since they all disappear as soon as the window opens.

I'd like to see most areas stay FCFS, but go to a per night fee. This would cut down on the people that go and stake out a site nights in advance and then leave it sit empty.

[skaredshtles]

Did any of you camp up Sand Flats Road before the gate or Slickrock parking area with bathrooms was put in?
There was toilet paper flying from every campground bush, it was gross.

<raises hand> I don't remember the TP, though...

[brutah]

Did any of you camp up Sand Flats Road before the gate or Slickrock parking area with bathrooms was put in?
There was toilet paper flying from every campground bush, it was gross.

Or camping on Willow Springs Rd in the past 5ish years before BLM stepped in to clean it up....... You can't move a rock out there without discovering a dookie.

[skaredshtles]

Or camping on Willow Springs Rd in the past 5ish years before BLM stepped in to clean it up....... You can't move a rock out there without discovering a dookie.

I'm glad I've never had to camp out there... it sounds awful.

[grskier]

So many places I camped out there were getting TRASHED. Sands Flats, Kane Creek, etc, etc...

The cool camp spot near the lake not too far from where Hazard ends looks to have either burned or is darn close. Lot's of cool trails up there.

[Touring_Sedan]

Did any of you camp up Sand Flats Road before the gate or Slickrock parking area with bathrooms was put in?
There was toilet paper flying from every campground bush, it was gross.

I remember when some hick brought a couch to burn in the back of his F-150.

[rideit]

Fucker, he should have been banned.
FTR, I think I had to get really stern that night so the hooligans didn’t light it on fire and send it down the River...

[Wes Mantooth]

Did any of you camp up Sand Flats Road before the gate or Slickrock parking area with bathrooms was put in?
There was toilet paper flying from every campground bush, it was gross.

From what I've seen in Moab proximity to a toilet doesn't necessarily curb the piles of human shit and TP next to bushes. Out in willow springs earlier this year there was shit everywhere within 50 yds of a relatively empty port o potty. On that same trip we also had neighbors revving a pit bike at 3am, different neighbors out in a designated Kane Creek spot get a DUI in their RZR, and an hour long girl fight next to us that resulted in half the group packing up and drunk driving away at 2am. At this point it just felt like an average run of the mill Moab weekend

[toast2266]

Yes, there are huge downsides. If you could only camp in developed campgrounds I'd probably quit camping.

Yeah, pretty much.

Although Moab is kind of its own special case for requiring camping regulations. I can't think of many other places where there are so many people camping. Which probably has a lot to do with Moab's semi unique situation of having world class biking + world class offroading + two national parks + easy driving proximity to a couple large population centers. I certainly wouldn't want to be the BLM guy trying to manage the use down there. Like herding chickens. And a bunch of the chickens are drunk and well armed.

I'm less convinced of the doom and gloom scenarios for the trails though. Yeah, the fire sucks (a lot). And yeah, there's gonna be some serious erosion problems over the next few years, and it's gonna take some doing to resurrect those trails. But they'll come back. Probably with some re-routes here and there. And the landscape will look different, but that's ok. There's lots of trails that run through areas that have burned, and plenty of those trails are still great. Without in any way condoning people who start fires, at the end of the day, fires are a natural process. They've been happening since before we were around, and they'll still be happening when we're gone. Moab's deep into draught conditions, and a fire was somewhat inevitable. Hopefully they can get this one contained without any injuries or substantial losses.

[Canada1]

I would hate to be a ranger there. Basically your a cop in a trailer park without backup. They need to double their spring and fall staffing and realize it is just part of the expense of keeping that economy moving.

We camp so far out, I guess I was blind to the problems. I just had an experience at one of the pay camps that made me say never again about five years ago.

[Boissal]

Moab's deep into draught conditions, and a fire was somewhat inevitable. Hopefully they can get this one contained without any injuries or substantial losses.

Inevitable, yes. Lightning would have eventually done it, or a powerline problem. Some drunk dickhole who can't put out a fucking fire though? I get that stupidity is the one immutable trait of humanity but still...

[rideit]

Have to say, the first mile or two of the Burro section downhill has been degrading significantly, it has been pretty damn blown out the last few times I rode it. Fun as fuck, but not sustainable for the kind of traffic it sees.

Is this blasphemy?

[toast2266]

Inevitable, yes. Lightning would have eventually done it, or a powerline problem. Some drunk dickhole who can't put out a fucking fire though? I get that stupidity is the one immutable trait of humanity but still...

Yeah, I mean, fuck them. And I hope they get caught (although that seems pretty unlikely at this point).

But yeah, if it wasn't a campfire, it'd be lightning. Or power lines. Or a cigarette butt. Or a car with hot exhaust idling in some weeds. Or, according to some statistics I just read, lava is also a concern.

[North]

Is this blasphemy?

No, that tracks with my experience also. I've maybe ridden that section 4 or 5 times and only gotten in good condition 1x. It was really awesome, but it's been blown out every time I've ridden it since.

[Ottime]

What is this new management strategy? Never heard of it. In the FS only presume? Is it widespread or just some small pockets?

While I think getting rid of some dispersed camping locations that are have been problem areas for years is a good idea, getting rid of all dispersed camping is the most ridiculous horrible idea I've heard in a long time. Shockingly bad idea, really. Unless all the campers can fit in already created designated campsites, and these campsites are not booked months in advance like many places out West, then sure. We need a ton more designated campsites then.

And then it will all burn anyways thanks to a lightening strike one year, ha.

Agree with this. In CA all the campsites are booked by stay at home spouses as soon as they open up. And they book as many as they want, cause their tech spouse can afford not use if them all of they decide not to go. Fuck that shit. It is almost impossible to get a site in a decent campground in CA. We’ve been hitting dispersed sites for several years now so we don’t have bother with the stress of sniping a site a year in advance. It was way better before the internet when you needed to call to make a reservation. We used to roll into Yosemite at 7pm on a Friday night and get a site in the valley. Now we just backpack so we know we can stay overnight. Or hit up any spot off many fire roads across the state. And we never started a forest fire.

The idea of banning something completely because of some dipshits is just stupid fucking policy for fascist. Fuck fascism. Kind of sad to see this board turn toward the side of - more tiles are better. This place used to be cool.

[simple]

No, that tracks with my experience also. I've maybe ridden that section 4 or 5 times and only gotten in good condition 1x. It was really awesome, but it's been blown out every time I've ridden it since.

X2 it is endurblown out.

[smmokan]

Have to say, the first mile or two of the Burro section downhill has been degrading significantly, it has been pretty damn blown out the last few times I rode it. Fun as fuck, but not sustainable for the kind of traffic it sees.

Is this blasphemy?

My understanding (from talking with folks last fall) is that Tyson and his crew were supposed to be working on fixing the top section of the WE this spring. It was the worst I've ever seen it last October: fucking brutal. That said, I have no idea if they did any work on it this year before the fire happened.