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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    My understanding (from talking with folks last fall) is that Tyson and his crew were supposed to be working on fixing the top section of the WE this spring. It was the worst I've ever seen it last October: fucking brutal. That said, I have no idea if they did any work on it this year before the fire happened.
    Well they are going to have a lot of work for themselves now. Those upper sections of the TWE probably won't be rideable for 5 or so years. The soil is gonna be cooked.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  2. #52
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    The rate and intensity of fires we have today can't be normal or I don't see it as. The argument that it would happen anyway or lightning could spark em just doesn't fly for me. It's ok if it were lightning imho but campfires? Nah, that's bullshit. Lightning is often accompanied by rain and even dry lightning is often the start of the summer Monsoon season which generally is followed by rain. It seems like it all works and has a function. This shit is more catastrophic and on the regular.

    There's just too many people and WAY too many stupid people.

    This makes me sad but for the most part I stopped going to Moab years ago. It's too much of a zoo now. Same thing is happening to Sedona now. Heck, most of my days off aren't even on a bike or at trails that tend to draw crowds. I'm becoming more and more attracted to desert and mountain wandering in more overlooked areas. I don't care how rad a place is, if there's that many other people there I won't be having fun anyways.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    The rate and intensity of fires we have today can't be normal or I don't see it as. The argument that it would happen anyway or lightning could spark em just doesn't fly for me. It's ok if it were lightning imho but campfires? Nah, that's bullshit. Lightning is often accompanied by rain and even dry lightning is often the start of the summer Monsoon season which generally is followed by rain. It seems like it all works and has a function. This shit is more catastrophic and on the regular.

    There's just too many people and WAY too many stupid people.

    This makes me sad but for the most part I stopped going to Moab years ago. It's too much of a zoo now. Same thing is happening to Sedona now. Heck, most of my days off aren't even on a bike or at trails that tend to draw crowds. I'm becoming more and more attracted to desert and mountain wandering in more overlooked areas. I don't care how rad a place is, if there's that many other people there I won't be having fun anyways.
    The rate and intensity have changed, but it's not a direct-people impact; it's more indirect, climate-change related. Land on Fire (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) does a decent job looking at a lot of the factors involved, but one of the key takeaways (IMO) was that fire seasons have been getting longer and hotter throughout the west in recent history. IIRC, the starts from dumb human tricks versus natural causes (lightning) were less significant than weather patterns and the legacy of over-suppression throughout the past century.

    I'd strongly recommend the book if you actually want to dig into some of the issues.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum View Post
    The rate and intensity have changed, but it's not a direct-people impact; it's more indirect, climate-change related. Land on Fire (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) does a decent job looking at a lot of the factors involved, but one of the key takeaways (IMO) was that fire seasons have been getting longer and hotter throughout the west in recent history. IIRC, the starts from dumb human tricks versus natural causes (lightning) were less significant than weather patterns and the legacy of over-suppression throughout the past century.


    I'd strongly recommend the book if you actually want to dig into some of the issues.
    Sounds good, I'll definitely read that, thanks
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    Well they are going to have a lot of work for themselves now. Those upper sections of the TWE probably won't be rideable for 5 or so years. The soil is gonna be cooked.
    From the looks of the map, the northern perimeter of the fire has not moved for a few days *and* has not touched the Burro->Warner section.
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  6. #56
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    Any of you ride the moonlight meadows route?
    I never did.
    Forum Cross Pollinator

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Any of you ride the moonlight meadows route?
    I did years ago. Think I started at Warner Lake, down Oowah, down something else, up some road, up Moonlight, up and over Burro, back to Warner. Finished with some fishing and trout for dinner. Good ride for when its cooking down in Moab. Moonlight was alright. A bit of nice trail in the trees and a bit of steep rutted cattle fucked trail through meadows, if I recall.

    Also did a ride on that same trip across Squaw Spring Tr then looping around South Mountain and back. That was a burly ride.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    I did years ago. Think I started at Warner Lake, down Oowah, down something else, up some road, up Moonlight, up and over Burro, back to Warner. Finished with some fishing and trout for dinner. Good ride for when its cooking down in Moab. Moonlight was alright. A bit of nice trail in the trees and a bit of steep rutted cattle fucked trail through meadows, if I recall.

    Also did a ride on that same trip across Squaw Spring Tr then looping around South Mountain and back. That was a burly ride.
    We did Squaw Spring over to Hell Canyon one summer... there was some cattle-fucked single-track and hike-a-bike both up *and* down.

  9. #59
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    My plan this year was to go to Moab in July or August and just stay up high camping for a weekend putzing around the high elevation singletrack and camping with the family. I drove all around last year, mainly all around MT Tuk, scouting for camp spots, went for a short hike, and checked out trailhead access and all that. Welp, maybe next year!

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Any of you ride the moonlight meadows route?
    I never did.
    It's a fun loop. Meandering single-track with some variety from the rather beat up doubletrack/road descent.

  11. #61
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  12. #62
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    New Burro Pass Route in ‘2023!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Yes, there are huge downsides. If you could only camp in developed campgrounds I'd probably quit camping.
    I get what you’re saying as it relates to federal land, but I just gotta jump in and say that I love a good state park.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagtagley View Post
    I get what you’re saying as it relates to federal land, but I just gotta jump in and say that I love a good state park.
    I'd be good with mostly requiring camping in designated sites, if they are free and the USFS build 20x what currently exists. If they don't, it will become nearly impossible to camp. It's already very difficult in most places to get a site in a designated campground...

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Artist Formerly Known as Leavenworth Skier View Post
    I'd be good with mostly requiring camping in designated sites, if they are free and the USFS build 20x what currently exists. If they don't, it will become nearly impossible to camp. It's already very difficult in most places to get a site in a designated campground...
    yeah it’s a huge nightmare right now just trying to get a reservation or find a walk-in at anyplace even remotely popular or convenient. and I’m guessing the people leaving unattended campfires are the last ones to be deterred by some additional layer of regulation. and enforcement is a pipe dream. the knee-jerk is understandable, but I’m very skeptical that this gets magically fixed with camping prohibitions.

  15. #65
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    Camping isn't the problem. Some campers bring problems that could be addressed through education and specific (not to say nuanced) regulations.

    But regulating the right to close your eyes on public land does have the distinct advantage of being passive aggressive and feeling punitive while widening the lanes for laziness. Those are pretty important these days.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post

    But regulating the right to close your eyes on public land does have the distinct advantage of being passive aggressive and feeling punitive while widening the lanes for laziness. Those are pretty important these days.
    What the heck does that mean? Can anyone translate this for me? I confuse.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    What the heck does that mean? Can anyone translate this for me? I confuse.
    He serious something.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    What the heck does that mean? Can anyone translate this for me? I confuse.
    Just sarcasm. We can ban camping or fires or dispersed shitting (pack it out) but banning the one that equates to public sleeping in order to reduce the other two is simpler. So, Murica.

  19. #69
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    That is still another language, Jono.
    Forum Cross Pollinator

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Just sarcasm. We can ban camping or fires or dispersed shitting (pack it out) but banning the one that equates to public sleeping in order to reduce the other two is simpler. So, Murica.
    When the USFS can't find enough funding to empty pit toilets often enough and instead has to close them because the shitter's full, finding enough funding to have the personnel necessary to effectively enforce dispersed camping regulations seems like a pipe dream

    Sent from my SM-G892A using TGR Forums mobile app

  21. #71
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    not to mention all the dispersed camping (in southern utah anyway) which is on BLM land and not under the jurisdiction of the USFS

  22. #72
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    It looks like the whole enchilada route has been sparred to date, with most of the fire activity to the southern edge now. I don't have the internet skills to show the current fire map. But still basically as outlined above with the fire coming possible to the trail at the pass.

  23. #73
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    Damn, I was looking for a good excuse to not have to climb burro again.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Name Redacted View Post
    Damn, I was looking for a good excuse to not have to climb burro again.
    The reroute is mostly easy. Hard part lasts for only one heart attack. Summit county people arent supposed to complain about hard climbing! That is every one of your trails.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by simple View Post
    The reroute is mostly easy. Hard part lasts for only one heart attack. Summit county people arent supposed to complain about hard climbing! That is every one of your trails.
    Used to be, but now my throttle grip gets more work on the uphills than my legs. Getting sick of endless uphills at my age. 😆

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