Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Access to Granlibakken
    Posts
    11,184

    Esker Rowl — anyone got beta?

    Brother has been bike shopping ever since his bike got stolen. He recently found a Rowl for sale. From what I’ve read (beta review, Pinkbike etc) it’s another DW variation that pedals efficiently; short CS and short Reach&Stack make it a nimble or nervous bike depending on your perspective.

    Anyone have direct experience?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    13,841
    I own one.

    Most noteworthy thing about it is probably the very short rear end, which is a lot more rare these days than it used to be. Totally personal preference whether you like that or not. I think it makes the bike more fun / playful, but probably a little less good at holding speed through corners.

    DW designed rear end, which shares some similarities with actual dw link bikes, but is a bit different both in terms of layout (bottom pivot is concentric to bottom bracket) and kinematics (slightly different curves).

    Pedaling efficiency is ok. I find I have to run less sag than I normally would to keep things efficient, but I also find that the bike still tracks nicely over small chop even when running less sag / more air pressure. Suspension on the whole is good; small bump sensitivity is good, but it doesn't get crushed on big hits.

    If I were to change anything on it, I'd probably make the seat tube a smidge steeper, but that's partly because I'm kinda between sizes. I'm 5'9" on a large, which is right for me in terms of reach, but the top tube feels a little stretched while climbing. If I was a little taller, it'd be fine.

    Overall, it's a solid mid travel trail bike. It's not quite as "aggressive" as some of the more dedicated enduro sleds, but it's also not entirely undergunned on rowdier stuff.

    Eluder on here works for Esker.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
    Posts
    4,711
    It's the best bike ever, he should get it.

    Overall I agree with Toast but I feel it pedals more efficient than he does. This largely has to do with the seat height he runs in correlation to the actual seat tube angle, virtual pivot point blah blah blah...

    I can answer any specific questions you may have. I'll try to be unbiased....
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Access to Granlibakken
    Posts
    11,184
    Thx guys. Yeah the Beta review (I thought) carefully worded the summary—a short CS & WB bike will evoke ‘nimble and manuals for days’ from some & ‘nervous at speed’ from others. It’s unfortunate the bike industry is only slowly moving toward size specific CS length.

    With so many decent frame designs out there, other factors like pivot/bearing issues in wet or abrasive environments, weird frame failures, sluggish customer support etc become even more important….so I was fishing for those inputs too.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    13,841
    I agree with "manuals for days." I disagree with "nervous at speed." It's not a mini downhill sled like some of the bigger enduro bikes, but I wouldn't call it nervous by any means. It's manners at speed feel pretty average for a modern ~140mm trail bike. It is arguably a bit heavy for the type of bike it is.

    In terms of maintenance, I haven't had any issues. But if I did, I'd just drive over to eluder's house and yell at him until he fixed it.

    Little stuff: big water bottle fits fine. Cable routing is fine. Removing the shock is annoying because you have to deflate it. There's mounts for a taco bash guard, but it doesn't have the upper iscg tab, so mounting a chain guide is a hassle. Tire clearance is fine (fits a 2.5 in the rear. Fits a 2.6 depending on brand). Mine was an early version that needed some mastic tape here and there. I think newer versions have more stock rubber guards. Rear dropout clearance is kind of annoyingly tight.

    (I'm not sure any of those issues would really affect my buying decision).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Access to Granlibakken
    Posts
    11,184
    He’s looking for a trail bike that descends pretty well. So, 2.4” rear, target weight around 30 lbs, 130 to 140 rear travel. The Rowl seems to be on the edge of this category…mfger doesn’t appear to claim a frame weight ? But I’m reading 32.5 ish lbs with the r3 build (carbon I9 wheels etc)

    I saw a pic in bike mag that showed cosmetic damage to that low hanging link. Maybe it comes with a guard there now? Bueller?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    13,841
    It'd take some serious money to hit 30 lbs. Mine's 33ish with a reasonably nice build (although it does have real tires on it, so there's a pound to be saved there if you don't mind changing flats).

    I think the newer ones have a stock guard protecting the lower link. I have a semi homemade one that works fine. There's definitely a little gravel trap down there though.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
    Posts
    4,711
    I’m holding a 3.5 year old and a 3 week old at the moment but will respond later tonight.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Access to Granlibakken
    Posts
    11,184
    Thanks again Toast for the info. I think I had him potentially In For The Esker but it sold minutes before he got there.

    Eluder , sorry to interfere inadvertently with your childcare priorities

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
    Posts
    4,711
    Good it sold but a bummer it wasn't him, it's fun to get people on them. You should have seen me typing that reply on the phone juggling kids.

    The frames are not the lightest on the market, we error on the side of durability with our layups and that lower link isn't the lightest. I never notice it on big climbs, but am like Toast and run 1300 gram tires... We do have frame weights listed in the 'Frame Specs" section at the bottom for every size.

    New bikes come with a bash guard, you can run a 1UP top guide no problem but currently there is no combo bash/guide. We are working on one though and it likely would be available if covid didn't make lead times go to the moon. The lowest part of the rear triangle can get some paint damage from rocks getting kicked up but we have never had a failure there. Our first model the Elkat had a similar design so we have some time on them beyond the Rowl.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,429
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    It'd take some serious money to hit 30 lbs. Mine's 33ish with a reasonably nice build (although it does have real tires on it, so there's a pound to be saved there if you don't mind changing flats).
    Curiously, where would you start if you were looking at getting it down around 30?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    13,841
    Quote Originally Posted by sethschmautz View Post
    Curiously, where would you start if you were looking at getting it down around 30?
    800g tires + rockshox pike + ~1400g wheelset ought to more or less get there. But that all sacrifices quite a bit of performance / durability.

    To keep the performance and durability and hit 30lbs would probably mean XX1 / XTR drivetrain, trickstuff brakes, some expensive wheelset (there's a few options there), and probably a drill for speed holes.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,748
    I have nothing to add other than:
    1) My wife, who is absolutely no slouch, has several thousand miles on an Esker Elkat. It has been one of the most maintenance free frames we've owned. One creek that was fixed early on.
    2) Esker has been great from build through support. Even arranged for a demo early on in the process.
    3) If the Rowl had been around last year I would own one. It probably will be my next frame.

    Eluder, I had no idea you work there. Great company and we're buds/acquaintances with Casey Krueger here in the UP. Part of the reason we ended up with an Elkat is that small local connection.

    My only complaint......and Eluder this is incredibly serious: My wife is SUPER pissed the Elkat doesn't come in salmon color. That is the only reason she'd change frames. My wife cherishes VERY few material things, and for some reason the Elkat is absolutely one of them and I'm convinced it's because she just always has fun on it. I've ridden an Elkat and it's a pretty special mix, and I can imagine the Rowl is probably a great mix as well.

    We slice and dice these things in the high end bike world, and in the end there's a dozen bikes that would work for any of us. But it's sure nice to pick one from a decent company.

    Get it and be done.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
    Posts
    4,711
    Quote Originally Posted by justcuz View Post
    Eluder, I had no idea you work there. Great company and we're buds/acquaintances with Casey Krueger here in the UP. Part of the reason we ended up with an Elkat is that small local connection.

    My only complaint......and Eluder this is incredibly serious: My wife is SUPER pissed the Elkat doesn't come in salmon color. That is the only reason she'd change frames. My wife cherishes VERY few material things, and for some reason the Elkat is absolutely one of them and I'm convinced it's because she just always has fun on it. I've ridden an Elkat and it's a pretty special mix, and I can imagine the Rowl is probably a great mix as well.

    We slice and dice these things in the high end bike world, and in the end there's a dozen bikes that would work for any of us. But it's sure nice to pick one from a decent company.

    Get it and be done.
    I started with Esker about a year ago, we all wear many hats as a small company but essentially I run the warehouse here in Columbia Falls, MT. I also ship Terrene out of here.

    Too funny I saw this email come through a couple days ago. I got to get up to copper harbor next time Im back that way. Its been on the list for a good while.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
    Posts
    4,711
    Quote Originally Posted by sethschmautz View Post
    Curiously, where would you start if you were looking at getting it down around 30?
    I should get mine on a scale someday, Its full XTR but with beefy tires. I just have never been one to care on my trail bikes but realize some do.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,429
    Quote Originally Posted by Eluder View Post
    I should get mine on a scale someday, Its full XTR but with beefy tires. I just have never been one to care on my trail bikes but realize some do.
    Thanks Ron. I'm in line to pickup a used Rowl locally in Juneish. It's technically for my wife, but I'm planning on spending a good deal of time on it also and am pretty excited. She's been on a 28ish pound Tallboy (original) so I'm just trying to keep efficiency high and weight down as much as possible so she's focused on the fun bits.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Access to Granlibakken
    Posts
    11,184
    Btw Eluder, glad to see the frame weights on the site. After reading so many complaints that Esker wasn’t claiming a frame weight on their site or in any press releases, I figured it was some sort of company decision & I didn’t bother looking on esker’s site. D’oh, my bad.

    My view on bike weights is function driven, ie never makes sense to go crazy light on a build if frame is inherently heavyish. An 8.4 lb carbon mid travel frame/shock was likely designed with strength and stiffness in mind, so build it up accordingly and be done with it. My comment about my brother shopping for a 30 lb trailbike was not intended to start an Imagine A Rowl Build that gets it to 30 lbs challenge.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
    Posts
    4,711
    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Btw Eluder, glad to see the frame weights on the site. After reading so many complaints that Esker wasn’t claiming a frame weight on their site or in any press releases, I figured it was some sort of company decision & I didn’t bother looking on esker’s site. D’oh, my bad.
    The internet is a funny place like that. I have to say many of the loudest forum posters baffle me with their complaints, and few eat crow when they are wrong (that isn't meant towards you). That all being said we try to listen to complaints and attempt to get better if we are lacking somewhere.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Access to Granlibakken
    Posts
    11,184
    This whole Esker investigation has me thinking…GFs mojo HD is too small for her, and the 27.5 Elkat frames appear available & her build kit would go right on…would indirectly be supporting a mag….hmmmm. The Med is available in Saguaro. In the pics is that the yellow color? Saguaro usually implies yellow at a paint store, but I see you have Desert listed as another color which kinda implies a pale yellow. She’ll ask me what size water bottle would fit in the Med with the DPX2 shock in there.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
    Posts
    4,711
    I happen to have both those colors hanging out. The front one is Saguaro.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	C92FA03F-2B47-4EBE-8BAA-DBA234492E5F.jpg 
Views:	56 
Size:	695.3 KB 
ID:	375256

    22oz fit no problem. The piggy back can interfere with some 24oz bottles. Using a cage that can slide all the way down is helpful. I like the z-cage and file out the holes. That hasn't been done in the pics below.

    * mandatory upside pic...
    Last edited by Eluder; 05-21-2021 at 01:36 PM.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
    Posts
    4,711
    Some mediocre medium Elkat waterbottle shots.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	34D127AC-61E3-4FA7-B93F-D96F2DC5AEEB.jpg 
Views:	45 
Size:	647.4 KB 
ID:	375259
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	A2266F23-74C8-4565-9B1D-2A036B348F31.jpg 
Views:	48 
Size:	1.06 MB 
ID:	375260
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	8C1808E8-039A-4B61-90EA-695114403543.jpg 
Views:	55 
Size:	891.1 KB 
ID:	375263
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •