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  1. #26
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    Jan 2014
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    354
    bent chetler 100. theyre like 1850g in 188 which is a bit heavy, but thinking more and more that that sort of shape with some light atks or MTNs is the ticket for general softish-hard snow touring. Pretty damp, pretty loose but enough edge grip and flatish tails for more spring objectives.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    339
    Just want to reiterate, the Line Vision 98's paired with Atomic Backland binding is a fantastic spring/volcano touring ski for the Cascades. Hard to find a sub 1500g, sub 100mm touring ski that's progressively mounted at -6cm.

    Touring buddy has a Vision108 with a pair ATK's, and raves about them too.
    90% of skiing is just looking cool

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    766
    Vison 108s definitely on the short list. I want to go shorter for my touring skis. Resort skis are around 189 and 191. At 6'3, 200 lbs could I go down to the 183 or should I stick with the 189?

    Anyone have thoughts on the BC Ferox Freebird?

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    9,099
    Love my Praxis BC veneer's, I didn't think they were "playful"...interesting. I would think if you want "playful", then screw the touring aspect, and pick the wacky ski you want.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    339
    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    At 6'3, 200 lbs
    I would go 189cm. Tbh, the visions are not particular stiff; they are very easy to flick around, loose and surfy. Pretty good in the trees and bushwacking through the cascades.

    Build quality and durability is a legitimate concern as I've heard from a few connected individuals that there were manufacturing issues. Mines holding up...knock on wood.

    4frnt Ravens are also a good options, 3 of my touring partners are on them.
    90% of skiing is just looking cool

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    305
    Plus one for another fan of the LINE Vision 108. Loving the performance of this ski. Light enough for long tours but wicked fun and playful. I ski the 189 without any concern, they easily ski like a 184 or a 186 to me.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    2,216
    I've been experimenting this season with Hojis as my main touring ski and having a lot of fun on them. They don't feel poppy per se but they're super nimble and turny so you can kinda dance around on anything and play a lot with the terrain. I did a lot of low angle touring this year due to avy danger and they made unexciting dad pow really fun. Haven't minded the width and reverse camber but good skins are a must and crampons have saved my ass a few times on frozen spring tours. I got the Hojis cheap but if given any choice I'd prob get the Raven just for more versatility. The only time the shape has been trouble was on completely frozen windblown crust but my buddy on Navis Freebirds was struggling just as much if not more - I think any ski would've sucked on that stuff
    Quote Originally Posted by other grskier View Post
    well, in the three years i've been skiing i bet i can ski most anything those 'pro's' i listed can, probably

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    766
    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    I've been experimenting this season with Hojis as my main touring ski and having a lot of fun on them. They don't feel poppy per se but they're super nimble and turny so you can kinda dance around on anything and play a lot with the terrain. I did a lot of low angle touring this year due to avy danger and they made unexciting dad pow really fun. Haven't minded the width and reverse camber but good skins are a must and crampons have saved my ass a few times on frozen spring tours. I got the Hojis cheap but if given any choice I'd prob get the Raven just for more versatility. The only time the shape has been trouble was on completely frozen windblown crust but my buddy on Navis Freebirds was struggling just as much if not more - I think any ski would've sucked on that stuff
    I'm very curious on the Raven. Haven't skied a reverse camber ski before and this seems like a good opportunity, plus seems like there's deals to be had on them, plus I'm rooting for 4frnt as a company. But I don't know if I can get past the topsheet. An animated crow is not doing it for me.

  9. #34
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    Mar 2008
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    CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    I'm very curious on the Raven. Haven't skied a reverse camber ski before and this seems like a good opportunity, plus seems like there's deals to be had on them, plus I'm rooting for 4frnt as a company. But I don't know if I can get past the topsheet. An animated crow is not doing it for me.
    I hadn't been on a reverse camber ski since skiing Spatulas and Pontoons on bottomless days so I had the same hesitation but it was honestly zero adjustment for me. I've heard people say they could feel like a rocking chair but never experienced that. I'm also a former racer and like to ski pretty far forward so I was worried about the more neutral stance but these just felt natural and easy and super nimble from the first turn. By shape alone it's certainly not the most practical one ski quiver for touring but I've been happy on them in everything I've encountered so far and it is a really fun ski to hop around and pretend to be a really shitty version of Hoji
    Quote Originally Posted by other grskier View Post
    well, in the three years i've been skiing i bet i can ski most anything those 'pro's' i listed can, probably

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    766
    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    By shape alone it's certainly not the most practical one ski quiver for touring but I've been happy on them in everything I've encountered so far and it is a really fun ski to hop around and pretend to be a really shitty version of Hoji
    You're saying the Raven isn't the most practical one ski touring quiver? Why's that?

  11. #36
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    Mar 2019
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    Grandma's Basement
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    You're saying the Raven isn't the most practical one ski touring quiver? Why's that?
    Its a pretty low area ski, so in deeper mid-winter touring conditions I would expect its not great. Hoji himself said he only really skis it in the spring/early summer. However, if you're in an area that doesnt get a ton of snow in each storm cycle it could be good.
    "Poop is funny" - Frank Reynolds

  12. #37
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    Nov 2016
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    766
    Quote Originally Posted by rfconroy View Post
    Its a pretty low area ski, so in deeper mid-winter touring conditions I would expect its not great. Hoji himself said he only really skis it in the spring/early summer. However, if you're in an area that doesnt get a ton of snow in each storm cycle it could be good.
    I see, so if I'm going for a one ski quiver, hoji is the way

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    389
    Iíll say again that the raven isnít playful, in that it doesnít have much of any rebound energy being reverse camber. But it can be slarvy and slashy so fun from that standpoint. But vision is prob more traditional playful.
    I do think the raven is a great mid winter tour ski. The shape serves it real well in pow, and is a reasonable weight. Hoji is wider and floats more of course, but raven holds its own

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Alta
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    1,419
    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    I hadn't been on a reverse camber ski since skiing Spatulas and Pontoons on bottomless days so I had the same hesitation but it was honestly zero adjustment for me. I've heard people say they could feel like a rocking chair but never experienced that. I'm also a former racer and like to ski pretty far forward so I was worried about the more neutral stance but these just felt natural and easy and super nimble from the first turn. By shape alone it's certainly not the most practical one ski quiver for touring but I've been happy on them in everything I've encountered so far and it is a really fun ski to hop around and pretend to be a really shitty version of Hoji
    Quote Originally Posted by rfconroy View Post
    Its a pretty low area ski, so in deeper mid-winter touring conditions I would expect its not great. Hoji himself said he only really skis it in the spring/early summer. However, if you're in an area that doesnt get a ton of snow in each storm cycle it could be good.
    Iím a huge fan of the hoji designed skis. If you commit to your edge angle there is zero instability or rocking chair effect. This is true for many full reverse camber skis that have a reflect tech type design. Iíve skied the raven in deep pow, normally ski renegade in deep pow, and I think itís great. I have other touring skis but if I was to only ski/recommend one it would certainly be the raven. I canít think of a single condition that it canít handle. Itís very intuitive, damp for its weight and just fun to ski whether skiing fast on steeps or meadow skipping. I even think it grips great on skin tracks, despite being full reverse camber.


    Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

  15. #40
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    Mar 2008
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    CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    You're saying the Raven isn't the most practical one ski touring quiver? Why's that?
    Mainly due to the reverse camber, not so much the width. On paper that should mean it's a more soft snow oriented ski and would cause problems on icy skin tracks and super firm conditions - these are all the hesitations I had before getting the Hojis, but as said earlier I experienced none of that so listen more to the testimonials than the specs

    Unless you're consistently skiing massive Hoji style dumps I think the Raven will do fine width wise as a one ski quiver. But as tang said it's this shape isn't traditionally playful in the way you may be expecting, but I'd still consider it one of the most playable skis I've ever been on...if that makes any sense
    Quote Originally Posted by other grskier View Post
    well, in the three years i've been skiing i bet i can ski most anything those 'pro's' i listed can, probably

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wenatchee
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    9,340
    The Raven isnít really a reverse camber ski, itís dead flat except for the tip and tail. No rebound until you get into 3D snow IMO. Theyíre great on firm wild snow. Good edge grip and predictable. I like them in powder and find them great for mid winter touring. Really fun in deeper slush/corn. Skinning isnít a problem like some reverse camber skis because, again, theyíre not reverse camber theyíre flat.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    469
    Having gone from a one ski touring quiver of the 184 cm Raven to a two ski touring quiver of a 184 Bentchetler 120 and a 179 cm Vision 98, I would say the Raven is not particularly playful. It is versatile and predictable, but it’s significantly stiffer than the other two skis I tour on now. Particularly the tails.

    If you are looking for maximally playful one ski touring quivers in that 102-112 width class, then I think some of the other suggestions above make more sense than the Raven (Vision 108, Deathwish or WC Tour, Etc)

    If you are looking for a good all-arounder as a one ski touring quiver, the Raven is a solid choice.

    But you live in the PNW, so if you can afford it a two ski quiver that seems like it would be ideal. Something 105-120mm underfoot with lots of rocker for midwinter and something closer to 90mm underfoot for firm days/spring days/long outings.

    Just my two cents...

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    113
    Just get a Billy goat and call it a day

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    766
    Quote Originally Posted by DGamms View Post
    Having gone from a one ski touring quiver of the 184 cm Raven to a two ski touring quiver of a 184 Bentchetler 120 and a 179 cm Vision 98, I would say the Raven is not particularly playful. It is versatile and predictable, but itís significantly stiffer than the other two skis I tour on now. Particularly the tails.

    If you are looking for maximally playful one ski touring quivers in that 102-112 width class, then I think some of the other suggestions above make more sense than the Raven (Vision 108, Deathwish or WC Tour, Etc)

    If you are looking for a good all-arounder as a one ski touring quiver, the Raven is a solid choice.

    But you live in the PNW, so if you can afford it a two ski quiver that seems like it would be ideal. Something 105-120mm underfoot with lots of rocker for midwinter and something closer to 90mm underfoot for firm days/spring days/long outings.

    Just my two cents...
    I've been thinking about this. Right now I have some protests that I don't currently get enough use out of. They have warden demos on them so I was thinking of making lindahl franken bindings out of them to use as a 50/50 deep day ski.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    1,462
    Thread drift, but the new Hoji is a 112 ski that is supposed to be much more similar in shape to the existing Raven. Even the sizes have been adjusted to boot. Anyone know any more details on this?

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    389
    Quote Originally Posted by thejongiest View Post
    Thread drift, but the new Hoji is a 112 ski that is supposed to be much more similar in shape to the existing Raven. Even the sizes have been adjusted to boot. Anyone know any more details on this?
    Thereís are rather fulsome discussion on it in the renegade SLC thread. Youíre right, the new hoji aligns to the newer ren and raven. Looks like an average of the two in width and camber (ren pretty reversed, raven flatter)

  22. #47
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    Jan 2017
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    Seattle, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by tang View Post
    There’s are rather fulsome discussion on it in the renegade SLC thread. You’re right, the new hoji aligns to the newer ren and raven. Looks like an average of the two in width and camber (ren pretty reversed, raven flatter)
    Thanks, I'll check that thread out.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    766
    Didn't realize the visions were 1600g. Any of the vision guys think I'll over power them at 6'3, 200lbs? I don't plan on doing much charging or crud busting with this setup but I've never been on a ski lighter than 2000g

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by DGamms View Post
    Having gone from a one ski touring quiver of the 184 cm Raven to a two ski touring quiver of a 184 Bentchetler 120 and a 179 cm Vision 98, I would say the Raven is not particularly playful.
    Funny, my 2-ski PNW touring quiver also consists of those exact two skis/lengths. They complement one another extremely well. If I were to add a 3rd ski, it would be something straighter/stiffer around 105-110 underfoot for skiing hard in marginal conditions.

    I used to tour on the 2016 Hojis and wouldnít characterize them as playful either, at least not in the sense of poppy/energetic. They were intuitive and predictable though. I got rid of them because I spend a decent proportion of midwinter days during meadow-skipping, and the Hojis really need bigger open lines to shine. Bent Chet 120s or Pescados are much better tools for having fun in mellow pow.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    469
    Quote Originally Posted by Jongle View Post
    Funny, my 2-ski PNW touring quiver also consists of those exact two skis/lengths. They complement one another extremely well. If I were to add a 3rd ski, it would be something straighter/stiffer around 105-110 underfoot for skiing hard in marginal conditions.

    I used to tour on the 2016 Hojis and wouldn’t characterize them as playful either, at least not in the sense of poppy/energetic. They were intuitive and predictable though. I got rid of them because I spend a decent proportion of midwinter days during meadow-skipping, and the Hojis really need bigger open lines to shine. Bent Chet 120s or Pescados are much better tools for having fun in mellow pow.
    Yeah, I think a fat rockered ski for midwinter meadow skipping on higher risk avy days is worth it. I live in Utah, not the PNW. But the thought process for quiver choice was the same.

    I probably take my BC120s out 2 to 1 over my Vision 98s. The BCs are super playful, plane up so fast at low speeds in low angle pow, and are still reasonably comfortable at going backcountry-fast in less than perfect snow.

    If it’s just a fitness tour and/or the snow is bad and/or the group is the “light is right” crowd, then I’ll pull out the Visions. They are also a playful ski, but so light that I have to ski them more deliberately. 1430gm in a 179cm length feels real good on the uphill though.

    Vision 98 stoke from a 60 F post-season trespassing tour to the top of Park City, still pretty fun.

    Click image for larger version. 

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