Safer Ski Areas for safer people?

[mtnjam]

Or is it "safer ski areas for stupider people"

WTF kind of legislation is this? I for one am happy this kind of bill died.

https://coloradosun.com/2021/04/15/c...talities-bill/

[stealurface831]

“Senate Bill 184 is a good start to help make the Colorado ski industry a world leader in attracting skiers and riders,” Fisher said.

should someone tell him they already are?

[The AD]

I can see how it could be potentially helpful, but I can also see how it would end up being simply a bureaucratic morass. And I think the latter case is more probable.

[MakersTeleMark]

Why one specific industry is allowed to not disclose injuries to the public on public lands disgusts me.

[old goat]

As opposed to business required to report injuries to employees and hospitals required to report injuries to patients, ski resorts operate an inherently dangerous business where the vast majority of injuries of deaths are caused by the lack of skill of the victim or of other skiers, factors the resort has little control over. I can't see how reporting how many people broke their leg, tore their ACL, or died after skiing into a tree will make skiing any safer or help me decide where to ski.

Besides hospitals, most industries don't report injuries to the public. Recalls of consumer products are driven by injuries and deaths reported to the CPSC, not self reported statistics reported by manufacturers. Drug and vaccine injuries are similarly reported, usually by the injured party's provider, to the FDA or VAERS, not by systematic monitoring and reporting by pharma. (It would be nice if that weren't the case by pharma has no way to identify every person who receives their products once they are out of trials.

[mtnjam]

.... but I can also see how it would end up being simply a bureaucratic morass

Besides the reporting of deaths and injuries I'm curious what the group lobbying this bill has in store to make this trend decrease? Putting up more slow skiing signs and yellow jackets or should we just pad all the trees in the forest, line each run with nets "just in case", and have gondolas instead of chairlifts so people don't fall off chairs? Or is this group just lobbying to make noise and solve nothing.

[The AD]

Besides the reporting of deaths and injuries I'm curious what the group lobbying this bill has in store to make this trend decrease? Putting up more slow skiing signs and yellow jackets or should we just pad all the trees in the forest, line each run with nets "just in case", and have gondolas instead of chairlifts so people don't fall off chairs? Or is this group just lobbying to make noise and solve nothing.

I think the idea would be to make ski areas publicly accountable. "That which is measured improves." But, yes, in practice all it might achieve is for ski areas to be more cautious: less open terrain, etc.

[GoldMember]

I would guess this is being pushed by some lawyers who are looking for a ski area to not be working their published safety plan with an eye toward the injured or deceased. As it stands, they really don't have much room to stand on with suits against ski areas as skiing is an inherently individual act where the skier assumes the risk. If there is a safety plan and the area, for whatever reason doesn't adhere on a specific point, it would at least give the attorneys something to argue when they try to sue the area. Always looking for an angle...

[TBS]

CO Sun’s site is down but it looks like the bill did not get through committee.

Which IMO is a good thing

[glademaster]

Why one specific industry is allowed to not disclose injuries to the public on public lands disgusts me.

This. It's a damn shame that bill died in committee.

I think the idea would be to make ski areas publicly accountable. "That which is measured improves." But, yes, in practice all it might achieve is for ski areas to be more cautious: less open terrain, etc.

This is a straw man argument when you realize that the majority of ski-related injuries and fatalities happen on beginner and intermediate ski runs.

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

Why one specific industry is allowed to not disclose injuries to the public on public lands disgusts me.

I'm not aware that other industries operating on public lands have to report injuries, so I'm not sure it is this one industry. My company operates under forest service leases on public land and we aren't required to report every time someone burns themselves on a stove at a hut or they twist their ankle on the trail in; I'm pretty sure guiding companies aren't required to report those stats either. I understand that ski resorts are quite different and accountability is always nice, but as old goat pointed out there is a lot more that often goes into these injuries or accidents, like user error sometimes, that makes these stats less useful than we might think.

[old goat]

There was an idea a while back to put netting along the sides of all the groomers to keep people from going into the trees. Obviously that died.

If someone is for mandatory reporting of all ski injuries on public (or private) land, they need to explain how it would actually help, besides being a way to stick it to the ski resorts.

[S_jenks]

Ctrl+V language from the bill itself

BILL SUMMARY

The bill updates the "Ski Safety Act of 1979" by:

1) Requiring each ski area to adopt and publish, in printed form and on the ski area's website, if any, a safety plan specifying the governance, management, and operational roles, responsibilities, and practices of the ski area to prevent accidents and reduce the frequency and severity of injuries; and

2) Requiring ski areas with an elevation drop of 500 feet or more and at least one elevated lift to:

2a) Collect and disseminate seasonal data on ski and snowboard accidents and deaths, including those occurring while boarding or exiting lifts; and

2b) Collect and make available, upon request, specific information about each accident, including where and when it occurred, the conditions at the time, the type of injuries and whether death occurred on site or following medical transport, and specified nonprivate information about the injured person.


The bill makes any failure to create, maintain, and publish a safety plan or provide the required reports or data grounds for discipline by the passenger tramway safety board.

[manchild]

This is a straw man argument when you realize that the majority of ski-related injuries and fatalities happen on beginner and intermediate ski runs.

What are you basing this on? NSAA data shows the opposite on its fatality report... https://nsaa.org/webdocs/Media_Publi...et_2020-21.pdf

Not a straw man argument at all. The economic and political pressures this would involve are pretty straightforward. I think it's very likely that public reporting of fatality data would result in the closure of more dangerous zones. That would be great for reducing the ability of weekenders to get in over their heads but horrible for the progression of the sport by informed, experienced skiers and riders who understand the risks they are choosing to take.

[Buster Highmen]

Who are these "safer people".

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Who are these "safer people".

The Mormons?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[chickenNugget]

What are you basing this on? NSAA data shows the opposite on its fatality report... https://nsaa.org/webdocs/Media_Publi...et_2020-21.pdf

Not a straw man argument at all. The economic and political pressures this would involve are pretty straightforward. I think it's very likely that public reporting of fatality data would result in the closure of more dangerous zones. That would be great for reducing the ability of weekenders to get in over their heads but horrible for the progression of the sport by informed, experienced skiers and riders who understand the risks they are choosing to take.

Nope. The NSAA reports most fatalities are on intermediate or advanced runs...so anything not a green run. Pretty worthless stat.

Read through some older nsaa reports and it should become clear that this is to obfuscate the fact that fatalities...”are going at high rates of speed on the margins of intermediate trails”.

Quote from the ‘9/10 nsaa fatality report. Also fun to note the change in collision statistics since then. Lastly...these reports have very few real stats. Maybe if they did we could make skiing safer?

[MakersTeleMark]

Maybe I'm just a humanist, but if you pay for a massive monopoly to use hudge swaths of public lands, you should be reporting your incident reports. To violently come out against that is showing a sick sick card. If we can see patterns and have any way to minimize them, especially through education, then why not? Otherwise, it's a missed opportunity, not a closed run, honestly. Why shouldn't there be transparency? Argue against that, because the lobby groups against this bill were absurd in their arguments.

And, let it be known, I duck ropes, ski fast, and take chances. I don't have a play in this fight.

[unclebill]

I'm very interested to know what ideas these people have in their minds to make things "safer". Who has made the determination that it needs to be safer, no disrespect to those who have been injured or lost their lives.

[old goat]

I'm very interested to know what ideas these people have in their minds to make things "safer". Who has made the determination that it needs to be safer, no disrespect to those who have been injured or lost their lives.

Agreed.
I've been hurt 3 times--skied into a mogul under powder and tore meniscus, had a prelease in heavy pow and dislocated shoulder, had a tumbling fall on ice on a big powder day--the upper part of the very steep run had slid down to ice. I was at fault in all of the incidents, not the resort. Nothing the area could have done short of closing the run, but it was well marked as expert, other people skied it safely.
Education? A mandatory skier safety class before being issued a certificate that allows you to ski, maybe the skiing version of "Red Asphalt". How much does driver ed and gory movies help prevent traffic deaths? Where I ski potential hazards like cliffs, expert runs, difficult conditions, and manmade obstructions are very well marked. Slow signs abound, patrollers flag down people skiing too fast in congested zones--too my shame I've only been flagged once, and it was at Northstar so it doesn't count.

Speaking of Northstar--very aggressive effort at speed control, a sign in the gondola loading area about how many passes have been pulled--but the word among patrollers is--if you like loading sleds, work at Northstar, if you like throwing bombs Squaw is a better bet.
For those who are interested in making skiing safer I suppose they could run their own safety courses.

[Core Shot]

Throwing bombs at squaw can be deadly

[skifishbum]

Who are these "safer people".

present and counting for 417, 418, 419.........

[mtnjam]

Who are these "safer people".

The same people that use trails in the summer and complain about rocks, roots and other obstacles on said mountain terrain trail. Sure, we'll just go ahead and pave it so you don't trip.

[altasnob]

It’s time for transparency at Colorado ski resorts. Summit Daily News built a database a few years ago using coroners’ records obtained through the Colorado Open Records Act.

https://www.summitdaily.com/opinion/...o-ski-resorts/

https://www.summitdaily.com/news/skier-deaths

[GoldMember]

Pardon my cynicism but this reads like a playbook out of a personal injury attorney's wish list.

BILL SUMMARY

The bill updates the "Ski Safety Act of 1979" by:


1) Requiring each ski area to adopt and publish, in printed form and on the ski area's website, if any, a safety plan specifying the governance, management, and operational roles, responsibilities, and practices of the ski area to prevent accidents and reduce the frequency and severity of injuries; and


2) Requiring ski areas with an elevation drop of 500 feet or more and at least one elevated lift to:


2a) Collect and disseminate seasonal data on ski and snowboard accidents and deaths, including those occurring while boarding or exiting lifts; and


2b) Collect and make available, upon request, specific information about each accident, including where and when it occurred, the conditions at the time, the type of injuries and whether death occurred on site or following medical transport, and specified nonprivate information about the injured person.




The bill makes any failure to create, maintain, and publish a safety plan or provide the required reports or data grounds for discipline by the passenger tramway safety board.

Find the injured parties with as much background information you can determine from the area's reporting. Find the easily accessible safety plan and start looking for the cracks around the edges you can exploit. File suit against said area. Win lots of money for client (and self).

Merely being forced into compliance will raise the areas' insurance rates substantially as the insurers will be guarding against inevitable lawsuits that change the dynamic of "ski at your own risk". Now the risk will be shifted to the ski areas by large margins. Let's just agree to paying one hell of a lot more to ski or quit skiing altogether. This is all so counter-intuitive to me.