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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    They're half the line!
    Dude. Not even close. MAYBE 1/50th are scenic riders.

    I have a hard time comprehending the oft-expressed line aversion. What is the fucking rush to ski the same old lower mountain stuff for the zillionth time? I mean maybe on a powder day, but on a regular old ski day? People would rather lap those lower lifts that than ski the amazing high alpine terrain on Lone Peak? I just don't get it man. Must be something wrong with me.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    FYI employees and their families will have to pay the tram up-charge, or so I was told.
    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    Ew, that’s a bullshit move.
    While my gut agrees with IAS, I can't realistically see unlimited tram rides for employees & dependents being a thing with most passholders getting an upcharge for the same privilege and demand still exceeding capacity (which I'm guessing it will).

    I'd hope they could find some way of allowing a certain amount of off-peak-time access—it would really sting to be there all year in a low-wage job and not be able to justify the cash to ride to the top at least a few times—but allowing unlimited access seems like it would adversely affect the guest experience. Employee and dependents are already (hopefully) used to avoiding busy times at F&B outlets, this seems to fall into a similar category (although, again, I'd really hope they end up allowing some level of access without an actual upcharge).

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    This has been extensively covered in the IKON thread and the title is misleading--they aren't "nixing" access, they're charging for it.
    While I appreciate your old goat opinion, this is bigger than IKON, and the MT thread, and thus deserves its own thread because as bunion has succinctly expressed below:

    And no, I fear this is the start of "well if you can afford it, sure its available for a minor additional fee, swipe your card right here". -Bunion 2020

    Here comes the resort "add-ons". Fuck this noise.
    Skiing in the rockies is like 70's porn

    Lots of bush

    Some wood

    No faceshots...

    -Mtnlion

  4. #29
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    Aug 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    Dude. Not even close. MAYBE 1/50th are scenic riders.

    I have a hard time comprehending the oft-expressed line aversion. What is the fucking rush to ski the same old lower mountain stuff for the zillionth time? I mean maybe on a powder day, but on a regular old ski day? People would rather lap those lower lifts that than ski the amazing high alpine terrain on Lone Peak? I just don't get it man. Must be something wrong with me.
    I just hate standing in a line when it could be spent doing almost anything else and I'm not sure I've been to any resort where regularly waiting in a uniquely long line felt worth it, unless checking something out in particular or after completely exhausting other areas.

    It's not that I'm in a rush to go ski the lower stuff. I'm in a rush to get away from any substantial line, which to me is the worst part of skiing.

  5. #30
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    Oct 2008
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    That’ll drop BS off the top of my list. BS is just OK without the tram.

    Bet they dont like the numbers for lodging and such next year


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  6. #31
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    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    Oh, they'll do just fine.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  7. #32
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    Mar 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp View Post
    I just hate standing in a line when it could be spent doing almost anything else and I'm not sure I've been to any resort where regularly waiting in a uniquely long line felt worth it, unless checking something out in particular or after completely exhausting other areas.

    It's not that I'm in a rush to go ski the lower stuff. I'm in a rush to get away from any substantial line, which to me is the worst part of skiing.
    This.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  8. #33
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    BS, living up to its name.

    We won't be going anymore.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  9. #34
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    Mar 2006
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    I wonder if they'll ever do Ride for Jake again and if that will include the tram (and its line). lol
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  10. #35
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    I don't see it helping the tram line much, the gold pass boomer tram rats will still be there and the ikon crowd will be like fuck it, basically skiing for free spent all the money to get here, what is another $80 bucks for a tram lap...

    Personally, I find it a bummer, but also the crowds of the last few years and change in vibe are too. I often like to end the day with a tram ride, so won't do that if it cost $80 for 1 ride at 255pm. If it is skiing well and short line, I do love a day of tram laps. Last Monday I got 6, including 3 NSSF.

    I also think a tram upgrade is a bad idea, just don't see how it snows enough for more traffic off the top. Quality over quantity, make everyone hike for it would be my vote. Scenic and patrol only on the tram or maybe 1 ride per day per person. But I'm not a good capitalist.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    That’ll drop BS off the top of my list. BS is just OK without the tram.

    Bet they dont like the numbers for lodging and such next year
    Agree it's not worth skiing there without the tram terrain. Headwaters is fun but you gotta hike for it and IMO it doesn't have the same variety of the terrain on the peak. I know some would vehemently disagree with me on that, but whatever.

    You may be right about the lodging and visitor numbers, only time will tell. I mean on the one hand, that's the point of this--to limit the numbers of skiers yet extract more money from the ones that do come. But if they go too far with it, and the blowback is too severe, then they could be shooting themselves in the foot. We may see them backtrack on themselves again like they did last year after their initial pass offerings. Early season pass sale ends 4/30, I'm guessing they're taking a hard look at the early numbers already. I mean who would seriously consider buying a pass and being denied tram access? Very few people, I think. It's kind of an insult, really, like you're being played for a sucker. The people who ride the tram every day will get the gold pass, of course, but really, that's a pretty small percentage of people. I practically could recognize every one of those people in the line, and it's just not that many. At least that's how it seems to me. I dunno. It took balls for them to attempt something like this, I'll give them that. And whoever said this is the beginning of ski area add-ons, like with the airlines, that could very well be true if it succeeds. Which will only happen if the people let it. Not people like me who will buy a gold pass regardless, but the people who come for a week and spend a lot of dough. There is going to be a severe decline in the amount of Ikon visitors, I would think. Most are going to look at this upcharge and just let it be the deciding factor in planning a trip elsewhere.

  12. #37
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    Dec 2005
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    I think it's an interesting play and curious to see how it works out. Havent been down to the big dump in awhile esp after losing cheap frequency cards and employees hook ups. The thought of gapers paying 80 bucks to side slip liberty does make me chuckle.

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  13. #38
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    Aug 2016
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    What was Big Sky like before Ikon? Was lodging regularly full?

    As a passholder, it would be really hard for me to consider any resort where I felt like part of it was restricted, even if I might never actually use it. For instance, I only rode the tram at Jackson once or twice the entire week I was there but going without that option wide open would've been a lot harder to accept.

  14. #39
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    This really bums me out. I pulled the plug on my travel plans this season and had a couple in the works for next, BS was one of them, not anymore. Fuck that up charge for the tram, this is coming from an old BS tram rat.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp View Post
    What was Big Sky like before Ikon? Was lodging regularly full?

    As a passholder, it would be really hard for me to consider any resort where I felt like part of it was restricted, even if I might never actually use it. For instance, I only rode the tram at Jackson once or twice the entire week I was there but going without that option wide open would've been a lot harder to accept.
    This is why I am hoping that the rage and unrest here comes from within (the local passholders setting the place on fire...figuratively) This is a shit precedent to set, and I'm all for revolution.
    Skiing in the rockies is like 70's porn

    Lots of bush

    Some wood

    No faceshots...

    -Mtnlion

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp View Post
    What was Big Sky like before Ikon? Was lodging regularly full?

    As a passholder, it would be really hard for me to consider any resort where I felt like part of it was restricted, even if I might never actually use it. For instance, I only rode the tram at Jackson once or twice the entire week I was there but going without that option wide open would've been a lot harder to accept.
    Can't really say about the lodging, I know there were busy times when it definitely filled up, but it was also usually possible to book a last minute room, and it still seems to be, at least midweek. One thing I think any BS skier would agree with is that the numbers of skiers seems way up, regardless of where they are staying. There are probably a lot more STR's than there used to be, and that has really created a problem for employees looking for long term rentals.

    I think your point about riding the tram once is a good one. Rather than eliminating tram access with a full price day ticket (or Ikon ticket or whatever), it might have made more sense for them to simply limit people to one tram per day included, and pay extra if you want more. I think that would have made the vast majority of the people happy enough, and it probably would have decreased the line somewhat, or at least spread people out more during the day. Hard to say though. Maybe it wouldn't have done enough to get the line size down to where they want it.

    It's really an infrastructure problem (tram too small for current crowds) that they are trying to solve by pricing people out of that specific lift, rather than fixing the actual problem of capacity. Although as has been discussed elsewhere, supposedly they are replacing the current tram after next year. IF the rumors are true, the new tram will have only a single car that will hold 60-80 people. Let's say 70. But it's going to be traveling twice the distance based on the rumors of where they want to put the base, so if the current ride is 5 minutes let's say the new ride is 10 minutes (and only one car, so half as many cars). I'd guess the current tram can get ~180 people to the top every hour (15 people x 12 cars). If the new tram can run 6 cars an hour x 70 people, that's 420 people an hour. This is all pure guesswork, but increasing capacity from ~180 to ~420 would likely solve the line problem, meaning they could eliminate the upcharge. Whether or not they will is anybody's guess.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asspen View Post
    This is why I am hoping that the rage and unrest here comes from within (the local passholders setting the place on fire...figuratively) This is a shit precedent to set, and I'm all for revolution.
    To be fair, Big Sky has been slowly turning the screws on local skiers for years now. The multi-day vacationers are the biggest moneymaker for them, and that’s where they need to be hit in their wallets if this new upcharge system for the tram is to be stopped from becoming permanent.

    Boyne doesn’t give two shits about the local skiers because they’ve decided to seek their market outside of the state borders. Sure, residents will bitch and moan, and will probably avoid Big Sky in larger numbers from here on out. But that’s not enough to convince Big Sky owners to change course if they keep getting those sweet sweet dollars from the Ikon crowds.

    I do hope that the average Ikoner goes elsewhere with this new system. I hope boyne takes a bad hit in their wallets next season. I skipped the tram on the one day I skied there this season, and the only reason I even went was to see family that were visiting there on their Ikon Pass. Early talks with them seem to show that they are pissed about this, and will head elsewhere next year. Plenty of other places to go on their pass anyway....

  18. #43
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    ^^ S_jenks is exactly right, I think. Boyne has their sights set on making Big Sky a place for the one percenters, and they are not actively recruiting locals to ski there with any incentives like they had in the past, i.e. the Frequent Sky Card and the Montana Pass. In their view, a bunch of local dirtbags (or employees for that matter) clogging up the tram line all week on their cheapo midweek passes doesn't help achieve that goal. They have been slowly wittling away every year at anything that might be deemed attractive to local families or dirtbags. Honestly, this year I think the thing they did that rubbed a LOT of local people the wrong way, even more so than the tram charge, was taking Saturdays off the Blue Pass. Tons of unhappy people on social media about that. I guess they have their kids in lessons or racing or something on Saturdays, so that was a big deal to them.

    Every year I think it's going to be my last year dealing with their crap, but alas, they haven't quite figured out a way to get rid of me yet.

  19. #44
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    Dec 2004
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    In their view, a bunch of local dirtbags (or employees for that matter) clogging up the tram line all week on their cheapo midweek passes doesn't help achieve that goal. They have been slowly wittling away every year at anything that might be deemed attractive to local families or dirtbags.
    Who needs em when you can sell IKON weekdays at an attractive rate and most of them are well behaved and leave some money behind. Cept the up-charge may not go over so well when the IKONs have so many more choices.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

  20. #45
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    Snowbird has had an up charge for the tram for years, if not decades. Someone can buy a chair only pass, or an unlimited pass. Ok so Little Cloud accesses the same terrain as the tram. Does Jackson have a chair only pass? What about Squaw? Sucks though, for sure
    “A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”
    ― Milton Friedman

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by schindlerpiste View Post
    Snowbird has had an up charge for the tram for years, if not decades. Someone can buy a chair only pass, or an unlimited pass. Ok so Little Cloud accesses the same terrain as the tram. Does Jackson have a chair only pass? What about Squaw? Sucks though, for sure
    Snowbird did away with chairs only a few years ago. Did away with midweek at the same time.

  22. #47
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    They also used to let you ride the tram with a chairs pass until Mineral was open.

  23. #48
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    $150 to prepurchase 3 days add on to a pass. $225 for 5 days.

    Tram Access products will not be limited by number of riders per day, but we will be limiting the number of Tram Access products (Gold Passes and Tram Access Packs) to help mitigate the number of guests with unlimited Tram access.
    Wtf

  24. #49
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    Another topic, Anyone else find it odd they spending all that money to replace swifty and only increase of 25%, I was thinking math error...but I guess same speed and number of chairs? Is old swifty going to dakota? Are they widening road at top going down toward double triple?

  25. #50
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    $150 to prepurchase 3 days add on to a pass. $225 for 5 days.
    Where you see that?

    I am assuming that is not the Tram Packs they have been touting.

    Another topic, Anyone else find it odd they spending all that money to replace swifty and only increase of 25%, I was thinking math error...but I guess same speed and number of chairs? Is old swifty going to dakota? Are they widening road at top going down toward double triple?
    Swifty is 25 years old and was a shitty machine when it was built. If the new lift is the same number of chairs as currently its an uphill increase of 33% which is a big increase, still doesn't address redundancy when it breaks. Also the current swifty only runs at about 65-70% of full speed.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

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