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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted reborn View Post
    But if they hack my password and UN to that site they can see my CC info if it’s stored with my profile, browsing as if they are me. If there isn’t any 2 factor authorization.

    You clearly know more about all this than me though, ha.
    The merchant never actually sees or touches the CC data. You (and the merchant) may see the card brand, last 4 and the exp date for reference. The token that is issued is specific to the card, merchant and the processor - there's no cross over.

    Basically -> that site where you are entering this data - it looks like it's on the merchant website but it's often a hosted solution w/ the processor (there are API variations of this theme). Once you do all that - the integration between the merchant's site/point of sale - has a hand shake that says: all done, here's this person's token. To the end user, it looks like Backcountry. com or whatnot has stored your CC data, but it hasn't - 100% w/ the processor.

    Further, to be in-scope PCI compliant/regulated is expensive and managing PAN data directly brings liability. Processors offer this type of solution to merchants - at a cost.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Mega View Post
    The merchant never actually sees or touches the CC data. You (and the merchant) may see the card brand, last 4 and the exp date for reference. The token that is issued is specific to the card, merchant and the processor - there's no cross over.

    Basically -> that site where you are entering this data - it looks like it's on the merchant website but it's often a hosted solution w/ the processor (there are API variations of this theme). Once you do all that - the integration between the merchant's site/point of sale - has a hand shake that says: all done, here's this person's token. To the end user, it looks like Backcountry. com or whatnot has stored your CC data, but it hasn't - 100% w/ the processor.

    Further, to be in-scope PCI compliant/regulated is expensive and managing PAN data directly brings liability. Processors offer this type of solution to merchants - at a cost.
    I logged into Amazon to see what you are saying, you are right. I believe somewhat recently it wasnít always this way with the local utility companies I used, I could edit and see all my CC info.

    Then again, donít hold me to a faint past memory. Thanks for the info.

    So how do CC hacks happen so often?

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted reborn View Post

    So how do CC hacks happen so often?
    hackers, mostly
    you don't want no smoke.

  4. #79
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    https://twitter.com/fold_app?s=09


    First ever BTC rewards card. Crushing it so hard with it the last few months it's been silly. Get the premium, pays for itself fast.

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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted reborn View Post
    So how do CC hacks happen so often?
    Without getting too detailed, there are vulnerabilities along the entire transaction & issuing chain. Skimming. Carelessness. Sniffing. At some point, data needs to move - be it from your physical card all the way to the card issuer who is authorizing the transaction. Even in End to End encryption - there are edges of vulnerability. Smart crafty people are looking for opportunities to exploit.

    That said, I personally use credit cards without a care in the world. To be blunt, the card holder ain't on the hook for diddly squat. Credit transactions offer the most protections. I know some people here mentioned debit and ach but, imho, that's a bit different: you need to convince a bank to return funds into your account after they've been removed vs. contesting a fraudulent charge that you've never fronted $ for. They are governed and regulated differently in terms of consumer protection.
    Last edited by Carl_Mega; 04-14-2021 at 10:04 PM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Mega View Post

    That said, I personally use credit cards without a care in the world. To be blunt, the card holder ain't on the hook for diddly squat. Credit transactions offer the most protections. I know some people here mentioned debit and ach but, imho, that's a bit different: you need to convince a bank to return funds into your account after they've been removed vs. contesting a fraudulent charge that you've never fronted $ for. They are governed and regulated differently in terms of consumer protection.
    Speakin the truth up here. By far, the most difficulty in getting a card number stolen, is updating all yer accounts on autopay with the new card number. I've had plenty of these and never done more than lift a finger to get the fraudulent charges taken off.

  7. #82
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    Itís been at least 3 years that I carry nothing but my phone, cc, and license, and pay almost everything w/ my watch. I love it.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmedslc View Post

    But I donít ďjuggle cardsĒ. Iíve got a 800+ score and not interested in the nickel and dime for a few Bucks at the expense of good credit.
    I totally understand not juggling cards because of the hassle to incremental benefit ratio. But what does that 800+ score get you? How much do you think juggling cards drops your score? And what will be the practical difference of that drop?

    I juggle cards, don't churn a lot but do it some, have 5 cards in my wallet, and have great credit. What more do you think you get, and on what, by having 800+ credit vs my 780-790 credit?
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    I totally understand not juggling cards because of the hassle to incremental benefit ratio. But what does that 800+ score get you? How much do you think juggling cards drops your score? And what will be the practical difference of that drop?

    I juggle cards, don't churn a lot but do it some, have 5 cards in my wallet, and have great credit. What more do you think you get, and on what, by having 800+ credit vs my 780-790 credit?
    Yeah, "juggling" cards is not going to affect your credit much in the long run. Maybe 1-3mo dips when you close a card, but always try to open a new one at the same time and re-up that available credit. If you're really churning, you may see more consistent drops, but still nothing that should change your personal or financial reality. FWIW - we've been churning on and off for 15years, both sitting pretty at 820.

    TGapp - normal Freedom, Citi Double cash or AMEX Blue Cash Pref for an everyday card. I use AMEX Blue for grocery/gas, Freedom for most other normal charges. We've leveraged Chase+United pts for our travel for a long time, so I'll take a baseline 1.5pts vs 2pts from other cards as the Chase UR is more valuable than cash to me.

    Sapphire Pref/Reserve have fallen off in value since the first 5yrs. Still a good card if you pay for travel, will use lounges and live in a city to utilize other benefits. We had Sapphire Pref for years, but hopping the 5/24 and waiting 2yrs to hopefully get a signup bonus wasn't worth it for the time being. Amex Gold was a good card that worked in our favor with high-end card benefits as well as travel credit, waived remaining annual fee and some decent amex offers.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    My mom/pop business doesn't accept cards currently exactly because of the 3% fee.
    Few people want to tack that onto our fees & I'm not eating it when I'm not inflating fees to cover that cost.

    3% onto multi-thousand dollar professional fees is stupid when it's the same charge if I were selling packs of gum. Owners are fine burying a few cents for the convenience of digital payment, but not hundreds for a single transaction. I guess some could see it as balancing with quickly earned points schemes, but still...seems exorbitant per transaction comparatively
    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    Law firm here, we take credit cards because it is worthwhile to put certain people on automatic payment plans and take the 2% hit rather than spend time sending letters asking politely for checks, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Nice cover for being an architect.

    Almost always aren't people paying for that with a check? Is it really a thing to run a card for that service?
    I have a 3.5% charge for card runs in my fee agreement.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    If you are not juggling cards you are leaving money on the table that takes time to earn.
    Sure the time you put in to juggling/churning may be minimal. But itís not zero. Time is money. Sounds like the equation makes sense for you in your situation. It doesnít for me. Does that make me an ďidiotĒ?

  12. #87
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    I Hate Using Credit Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Mega View Post
    Without getting too detailed, there are vulnerabilities along the entire transaction & issuing chain. Skimming. Carelessness. Sniffing. At some point, data needs to move - be it from your physical card all the way to the card issuer who is authorizing the transaction. Even in End to End encryption - there are edges of vulnerability. Smart crafty people are looking for opportunities to exploit.

    That said, I personally use credit cards without a care in the world. To be blunt, the card holder ain't on the hook for diddly squat. Credit transactions offer the most protections. I know some people here mentioned debit and ach but, imho, that's a bit different: you need to convince a bank to return funds into your account after they've been removed vs. contesting a fraudulent charge that you've never fronted $ for. They are governed and regulated differently in terms of consumer protection.
    Not all merchants and utilities are PCI compliant. Shocker, I know, but certain parts of the industry are pretty lax and some merchants do retain card info on their systems. That remains the primary vector for card compromises.

    In any event, I donít spend too much time worrying about fraud either for the same reason. Keep in mind that youíre only not liable for fraud you catch and there is a liability window wherein ongoing fraud eventually shifts back to the cardholder, so keep an eye on your statements.

    Small quibble re: debit card transactions processed on a signature network: the rules are exactly the same. How you cash flow can be an issue (and one of your own making, IMO), but to the issuing bank it makes absolutely no difference whether fraud happens with a debit card or a credit card. Theyíre usually on the hook for it and crediting your account comes directly out of their bottom line, debit or credit. Bigger issuers can be better at handling it because theyíve been there, done that and theyíre a bigger target for the CFPB and others, but that doesnít mean smaller issuers canít also take good care of you. The rules are the same, theyíll just take it a little more personally if the $300 comes out of their net income. Which... I donít think this has been said, this liability profile is what interchange income is FOR. Take away the incentive and assuming the liability no longer makes sense.

    ACH rules are quite a bit different (though regulations are in many cases identical), but if anything is going to be easier because the liability profile is different and your bank isnít on the hook for it (if itís identified timely). They have no reason not to take care of it right away.
    Last edited by Mustonen; 04-15-2021 at 04:42 AM.
    focus.

  13. #88
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    I Hate Using Credit Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    The fee amount is based on the purchase amount and the credit rating of the purchaser (because each credit card transaction is actually a mini loan). Most of the cheapest merchant services also have a base monthly fee that retailers must pay. So even if everyone pays cash to try to help the retailer out, the retailer is still having to pay that monthly fee regardless of whether they make one credit card sale a month, or 1000. So paying cash does not help them out as much as you may think (unless they get rid of credit card payment completely).

    Just a long winded way of saying I wish we had more regulation and fee caps of this industry like the EU.
    The network doesnít know the purchaserís credit score. AmEx and Discover (who are both the issuer and the network) might, but...thatís not a thing. The card type (which could be partially determined on credit score, depending on the issuer, albeit indirectly) does have an impact on your fees, though.

    I get that youíre butthurt as a merchant who has to pay fees that feel like a shakedown, but youíre a little off base in your ranting.

    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    Here's another way credit card companies rip us off. For my Costco cashback visa, once a year I get a check that I can only redeem at Costco. They encourage you to use that check to pay for Costco purchases rather than get cashback. But if you use the voucher for Costco goods, you don't get the 1% cashback on that amount. It is smarter for the consumer to always pay using the credit card (so you get the 1%) and get the reward as cash. You have to go talk to customer service to get the amount in cash. 1% on a $300 voucher is pretty trivial, but it all adds up.

    My REI VISA card does the same thing. They give you the voucher on month 1 that you can only use on REI purchases (but lose out on the 15% reward I get with the REI card). You have to wait a few months to covert the voucher to cash, and REI Visa knows most won't do this. My City double cash also plays this game. Rather than take cash they try to get me to use my reward on physical items (that I won't get the 2% reward if I go this route).
    Rewards are pretty cynical, generally. Most systems are predicated on a redemption rate of only 30 to 45%. It means the rewards can be richer for those who engage and pay attention and increases profit margins for the issuing bank, which... thatís not a super high margin industry. Theyíll fund their operation one way or the other.

    This was readily apparent when debit card interchange rates were capped a decade or so ago. You still have to pay for the system, and other fees were increased almost immediately to compensate. Nobody ďlost.Ē Such a weird way to look at it.... Do you really want it to be cheaper? Shift fraud liability back to the merchant.

    I donít understand why you key in on not earning rewards on your rewards, but thatís pretty standard and youíd be silly to design the system differently. Youíre so mad at the game that youíre playing, one wonders why you play it....

    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post

    back in the day a GF's teenage kid wrote the PIN on the back of the card, her friends dirtbag brother (known to police ) cleaned her out, was caught on camera at a gasbar ATM & she got the money back, sounds like a pretty dumb kid but she recently completed med school and is now making 250K a year, not sure if you want that girl working on you in the emerg
    No rule says you canít write your PIN on the back of your card. You still arenít liable if itís stolen as long as you report it timely, outside of that first $50 if the issuer wants to stick it to you. Which...they should, if you do that kind of thing.
    focus.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinevibes View Post

    TGapp - normal Freedom, Citi Double cash or AMEX Blue Cash Pref for an everyday card. I use AMEX Blue for grocery/gas, Freedom for most other normal charges. We've leveraged Chase+United pts for our travel for a long time, so I'll take a baseline 1.5pts vs 2pts from other cards as the Chase UR is more valuable than cash to me.
    thanks, this is very helpful. neither of us travel a ton, we don't use door dash or Uber much (and when we do, work foots the bill). Probably gonna have her get an AMEX blue and I'll get a a Freedom or Double cash. we both have excellent credit, blah blah blah, we just don't have the intellectual saavy/emotional energy to worry about whatever the flavor of the month is. props to those who do; our strategy for the past few years has been to put everything on the REI card and then get big ticket items during dividend season. now that the gear room is overflowing (coming soon to season 7 of Buried Alive), we wanna mature our strategy a bit.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    Sure the time you put in to juggling/churning may be minimal. But itís not zero. Time is money. Sounds like the equation makes sense for you in your situation. It doesnít for me. Does that make me an ďidiotĒ?
    Not juggling cards because you can't deal with that seems totally normal and not stupid to me. But getting a good basic rewards card like the double cash one and just using that, ie not juggling but the card you use is a good rewards card, is a total no brainer though. Doesn't make you an idiot for not doing it, but it's most certainly a financial mistake.

    If you use the CC for everything, it's easy to get a few hundred in cash back every year. With no juggling.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "I'd eat a bag of Dicks and wash it down with a Coke any day." - iceman

  16. #91
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    The Amex Centurion Black is the only card I carry.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    Seriously, though - companies passing through that "convenience fee" are cutting off their nose to spite their face. They would rather receive a check in an envelope and deal with all the associated costs of all that?

    Goddam morons.
    Most large companies pay via ACH now.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    Not all merchants and utilities are PCI compliant. Shocker, I know, but certain parts of the industry are pretty lax and some merchants do retain card info on their systems. That remains the primary vector for card compromises.
    ..
    Small quibble re: debit card transactions processed on a signature network: the rules are exactly the same.
    I knew from your other posts that you are in the industry as well. I've dumbed it down enough to be useful for the mags. There are PCI DSS levels as one dimension. There's the type of processing and arrangements with your vendors and processor - the self-assessment questions give more insight into that: https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org...elf_assessment
    But, in my modern day experience, your run of the day merchants or their self-hosted Point of Sale storing PAN data (for a card on file solution in lieu of a tokenization product) is an exception and certainly brings them in-scope. Thus unreasonable liability. There are some areas that are wild west and isos, payfacs that may take your shady business - heh. To add: I do not store my personal cards - various reasons.

    That said, I think you are wrong on the Credit vs. Debit protections (tho admittedly this is not what I do):

    https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-e...n-debit-cards/

    "The law governing debit cards, though, is not quite so powerful. If a person used your debit card without your knowledge or authorization, your liability is protected by the Electronic Funds Transfer Act, which gives you the right to challenge fraudulent transactions. But you'd better act fast. As long as you alert the bank that your card was stolen or compromised before someone uses it, you won't be liable for any of the future transactions. Wait two business days after the fraud and you might have to pay up to $50. Miss that deadline and wait 60 days, and your liability increases to $500. Let 60 days pass and your liability is unlimited, which means all your money in the account that was taken might be lost for good."

    Edit: you've really got me into a rabbit hole trying to see if Signature Debit (debit processed like credit for you mags) actually has different gov't protections or if the issuers/processors are just managing fraud and disputes similar - vs. those on Pin Debit. My googling is still showing the protections are treated as debit so if you have something that details the government consumer protections that'd help me.
    Last edited by Carl_Mega; 04-15-2021 at 09:47 AM.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    If you use the CC for everything, it's easy to get a few hundred in cash back every year. With no juggling.
    Over $700/yr from my Costco Citi the last few years. Zero juggling. Though, I am now pondering getting that Citi double cash card. Use the Costco card for gas, travel, restaurants and Costco purchases, and the Dub for everything else. No extra hassle making payments since it's all Citi still.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    Not at all. If you are not juggling cards you are an idiot leaving lots of money on the table. I'm bitching that apathetic and ignorant consumers (and voters) who have allowed the credit card industry to get out of control. Merchant services fees have remained unchanged in the last 20 years (or even increased) where as technological invocations should have brought these fees down. But as more and more people are using credit cards, and enjoying their annual free ticket to Hawaii, there is more and more pressure on merchants to give in to the credit card fees. Sure, credit cards offer something of value that the companies should be compensated for. But 3 to 5% of each transaction is unreasonable. Your perks aren't perks, it is just you trying to claw back some of that extra 3-5% that you are spending on everything, with the amount you are not able to claw back windfall profit for credit card companies.

    The exact amount of the service fees depends on what merchant services the retailers use. Last I was looking into this, the ubiquitous Square used a flat amount (say 3.5%). But I found that Square, while simple and easy to use, was actually a rip off (at least for my small business). The cheaper merchant services charge a different fee for every single different transaction. The fee amount is based on the purchase amount and the credit rating of the purchaser (because each credit card transaction is actually a mini loan). Most of the cheapest merchant services also have a base monthly fee that retailers must pay. So even if everyone pays cash to try to help the retailer out, the retailer is still having to pay that monthly fee regardless of whether they make one credit card sale a month, or 1000. So paying cash does not help them out as much as you may think (unless they get rid of credit card payment completely).

    Just a long winded way of saying I wish we had more regulation and fee caps of this industry like the EU.
    You keep mentioning 3-5%
    Is this what merchants add to the cost of goods, or is this the CC processing fee?

    If you're a merchant and you're paying over 2% for CC processing, you're paying too much
    I first started taking CC's in 1995 and the processing fee was 2.3 to 3.4%
    When I sold the property in 2019 NOVA thru Costco was charging 1.6 to 2.3%
    1.6 for basic CC
    1.85 for a rewards card
    2.3 for a business card
    Debits were the best, only a swipe and a interchange fee

  21. #96
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    I Hate Using Credit Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Mega View Post

    That said, I think you are wrong on the Credit vs. Debit protections (tho admittedly this is not what I do):

    https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-e...n-debit-cards/

    "The law governing debit cards, though, is not quite so powerful. If a person used your debit card without your knowledge or authorization, your liability is protected by the Electronic Funds Transfer Act, which gives you the right to challenge fraudulent transactions. But you'd better act fast. As long as you alert the bank that your card was stolen or compromised before someone uses it, you won't be liable for any of the future transactions. Wait two business days after the fraud and you might have to pay up to $50. Miss that deadline and wait 60 days, and your liability increases to $500. Let 60 days pass and your liability is unlimited, which means all your money in the account that was taken might be lost for good."
    Merchant facing PCI compliance isnít what I do. But fraud/disputes is in my area....

    First, if you process your transaction over the VISA or MasterCard rails your fraud protection is governed by VISA and MC rules, which offer more protections than either (extremely consumer friendly) regulation and applies pretty equally to debit or credit transactions (some small equivocation because purchase protection and other insurance-ey protections ARE different, but are so far out in the margins that it rarely comes up).

    Second, if you process your transaction over PIN network rails then your fraud protection is indeed governed by Reg E, which is different and confusing and you should just sign for your purchases, OK? That said:

    1. If your FI makes you pay the $50 theyíre assholes.

    2. The clock starts ticking when you learn of the fraud, not when the fraud occurs.

    3. The 60 day window is so widely misunderstood by the industry as to be farcical. There are a couple timelines in play. The first covers provisional credit and the FIís obligation to conduct a speedy investigation as long as notification happens within 60 days of learning of the fraud. The second covers ultimate liability.

    4. Liability falls within a 60 day window, but doesnít mean what most people (including your experian blogger and many financial institutions) think it means. Essentially, you are protected with a 60 day fraud window. If a large fraudulent transaction happened last year, and you just learned of it now, you are liable for: (1) up to $50 if you notified within 2 days of learning about it, and up to $500 if you notified your FI after that 2 days and (2) any fraudulent transactions that happen 60 days after the first fraudulent transaction.

    Really, they should have made one of the timelines 65 days or something just so people could learn to keep them straight.
    focus.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    Merchant facing PCI compliance isn’t what I do. But fraud/disputes is in my area....
    ...
    Second, if you process your transaction over PIN network rails then your fraud protection is indeed governed by Reg E, which is different and confusing and you should just sign for your purchases, OK?
    Totally. The space is huge and most of us occupy just one part of it - ex. me and merchant acquiring and all of its tentacles.

    Anyway - thanks for that. If you don't mind, me doing a tldr for the mags here: if you have a debit card with a cardbrand on it -> signing for your transaction will run it like credit and, for all intents and purposes, give you better institutional fraud protection.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Over $700/yr from my Costco Citi the last few years. Zero juggling. Though, I am now pondering getting that Citi double cash card. Use the Costco card for gas, travel, restaurants and Costco purchases, and the Dub for everything else. No extra hassle making payments since it's all Citi still.
    Yeah, I was being conservative with the "few hundred", I juggle and I think I am getting close to if not more than a grand back every year. I mostly do what you describe with Costco/Double Cash, but I also have 2 cards with rotating categories (Discover and US Bank Cash Plus) and get 5% back on those purchases. It isn't hard for me to do but I totally get that it might be too annoying for some. About the only things I can't pay for with cards are my mortgage and insurance, everything else goes on a card. My power utility charges a fee to use a card, but the fee is more than made up for by the 5% I get back for using the card.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "I'd eat a bag of Dicks and wash it down with a Coke any day." - iceman

  24. #99
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    I Hate Using Credit Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Mega View Post

    Edit: you've really got me into a rabbit hole trying to see if Signature Debit (debit processed like credit for you mags) actually has different gov't protections or if the issuers/processors are just managing fraud and disputes similar - vs. those on Pin Debit. My googling is still showing the protections are treated as debit so if you have something that details the government consumer protections that'd help me.
    This is governed by network rules and policy. Government consumer protections are, indeed, different. For most consumers in most situations, the difference should be negligible if discernible at all.

    ETA: Right, if you process the transaction over VISA or MC then youíre covered by their network rules. Not quite the rule of law, but doesnít make much difference at a cardholder level (and in practice is superior, IMO. Read notes above about industry misunderstandings about Reg E as exhibit A). Note that some PIN networks have similar protections in place. Good luck reading the fine print to figure it all out, though (I never bothered), or figuring out which PIN network your transaction was or better yet, will be, processed over.

    EETA: Reg E is always an ultimate fallback for electronic transactions, period, regardless of card type (generally). Timelines and dispute rules may differ when youíre relying on VISA or MC network rules. It gets so far into the weeds that most will simply set policy around it that manages to regulation AND network rules so they donít have to descend into the rabbit hole every time it comes up.
    focus.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    thanks, this is very helpful. neither of us travel a ton, we don't use door dash or Uber much (and when we do, work foots the bill). Probably gonna have her get an AMEX blue and I'll get a a Freedom or Double cash. we both have excellent credit, blah blah blah, we just don't have the intellectual saavy/emotional energy to worry about whatever the flavor of the month is. props to those who do; our strategy for the past few years has been to put everything on the REI card and then get big ticket items during dividend season. now that the gear room is overflowing (coming soon to season 7 of Buried Alive), we wanna mature our strategy a bit.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
    With regards to your REI strategy: Amex Blue, for better or worse, doesn't give you rolling cash back payments. It deposits the cashback much the same as pts/miles on other cards as an accrued balance. You have to login and choose to have them credited on your next statement, paid as gift cards, sent as a check etc. You could choose to build them up and then cash out every 6-12mo if you want a pseudo-bonus for certain purchases.

    Either way, a non-specific rewards card is likely healthier than the REI honeypot, which gets 1% on all purchases while being chained to buying at REI. From my 20yrs as an REI member, that likely means overpaying with "free" money for gear you may/may not need vs buying on GS, other online sales, etc.

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