The Hot Tub of Queso/Waxed Chain Thread

[grskier]

How do you all dispose of the used solvents that you are using... gas, mineral spirits, etc...

[climberevan]

I agree that the hypothetically best option might be to deal with the noise, but it is crazy-making. Kudos to anyone who can continue riding happily once it starts! When I'm using earphones I can push it farther.

IME rinsing with water (or a stream crossing) will indeed silence the noise for a bit, but only just a bit. As I've noted before, when I do re-wax chains that have become noisy they seem pretty well lubed after rinsing in boiling water, so I agree that the insides are probably still A-OK.

I did a bikepacking trip in WA last year when it rained for the entire first day. I assumed the wax would just be gone and I'd be sad for the remaining 2 days, but it was actually totally fine. It wasn't thick mud, but clean water and a tiny bit of grit seemed to have nearly no effect on the longevity of the wax.

I've not tried adding a wet lube like Synergetic, but lots and lots of experience adding SS doesn't seem to indicate that it collects too much more dust. The chain is still pretty clean when it gets noisy again; it just takes less time to get there than the original hot wax application.

[Roxtar]

How do you all dispose of the used solvents that you are using... gas, mineral spirits, etc...

Since I'm using very small amounts, I just pour it on a log destined for the outdoor fire pit.
Up in smoke.

[Roxtar]

I agree that the hypothetically best option might be to deal with the noise, but it is crazy-making. Kudos to anyone who can continue riding happily once it starts! When I'm using earphones I can push it farther.

IME rinsing with water (or a stream crossing) will indeed silence the noise for a bit, but only just a bit. As I've noted before, when I do re-wax chains that have become noisy they seem pretty well lubed after rinsing in boiling water, so I agree that the insides are probably still A-OK.

I did a bikepacking trip in WA last year when it rained for the entire first day. I assumed the wax would just be gone and I'd be sad for the remaining 2 days, but it was actually totally fine. It wasn't thick mud, but clean water and a tiny bit of grit seemed to have nearly no effect on the longevity of the wax.

I've not tried adding a wet lube like Synergetic, but lots and lots of experience adding SS doesn't seem to indicate that it collects too much more dust. The chain is still pretty clean when it gets noisy again; it just takes less time to get there than the original hot wax application.

My experience is that rinsing completely fixes it.
Here in NM, every ride leaves a coating of dust on everything. I literally rinse off the bikes after every ride. Thankfully, the dust comes right off and it's a 3 minute/bike process.
My point is that rinsing the chain leaves it good as new for the next ride, no rewaxing necessary. I assume rinsing mid-ride on those epic long days would have the same effect.
I generally know it's time for a rewax when the noise starts very quickly into the ride.

[XtrPickels]

How do you all dispose of the used solvents that you are using... gas, mineral spirits, etc...

I put it into a jug that I intend to take to a disposal station, then never do, so I start a second jug that I intend to take...

I try to cut down on the waste. The last mineral spirits rinse is the first rinse for the next chain. Alcohol disposal I don't sweat.

[climberevan]

I put it into a jug that I intend to take to a disposal station, then never do, so I start a second jug that I intend to take...

I try to cut down on the waste. The last mineral spirits rinse is the first rinse for the next chain. Alcohol disposal I don't sweat.

Same. It doesn't actually take that much. I use about a cup of solvent per phase, and that's enough for several chains. I do 3 phases of mineral spirits and 2 phases of alcohol. Each is in a glass quart-ish pickle jar, so I just keep them around until they are totally contaminated.

Of course, this is just something you need to do once in a while. I did like 12 chains a while back and prob won't need to do it again for a year or more, and even then it will just be maybe 2 chains for the bikes we ride the most.

I have a couple of old metal 5 gallon lacquer thinner jugs that I gradually fill with used motor oil, brake fluid, etc. After they get super nasty and mostly full, I take them to the dump for "proper" disposal.

[Cocximus]

I got caught in a thunderstorm. There goes my easy maintenance argument. It's not the first time the chain sees rain, but this one totally fucked it.

[Roxtar]

I got caught in a thunderstorm. There goes my easy maintenance argument. It's not the first time the chain sees rain, but this one totally fucked it.

Meh, nothing a good cleaning and fresh Queso can't fix.

[rideit]

How do you all dispose of the used solvents that you are using... gas, mineral spirits, etc...

Well, Jackson is getting way too crowded with Hedge Fund Fishermen and Southern Frat boy fishing guides, so I pour mine in the Snake to kill the trout. Two problems solved at once!

[Roxtar]

After watching the Oz cycling DIY wax test video, I was curious to see ZF's take on it. I also wanted to know if PTFE was being phased out due to performance or health/environmental issues (and the legal ramifications of such).
After reading the ZF comments regarding the Oz vid, I followed up with an email to Adam (at ZF) to get his take on the PTFE as well as a phone call to Molten Speed Wax.

I was amazed to get an almost immediate reply from Adam and, even more impressive, actually have the owner of MSW answer the phone.

Very cool.

They each agreed that it was a combination of both issues. The performance of PTFE has been eclipsed by Tungsten Disulfide (albeit at a substantially higher price) and the environmental aspects just sort of seal the deal.
I had a great conversation with the MSW owner (can't remember his name), discussing their current line, wax lube history, and DIY stuff. He seems to be a genuinely nice guy.
He even rides with the guy who started Fast Wax, the best ski wax I've ever used.
I left our conversation even more a fan of MSW.

[gramboh]

So I have not gone full hot tub of queso, but I put on a new chain and cassette on the road bike last night and tried Squirt for the first time. I followed the Silca new chain cleaning guide (multiple soak/shake baths of first Mineral Spirits and then methyl hydrate, let the chain dry in the hot sun for an hour). First ride this morning was a bit noisier than expected but it sounds like that is normal? To be fair, my Ultegra chainrings probably have 1500-2000km on them but are still good wear wise.

How often/when should I reapply more Squirt? ZFC says ~6h on a road bike, with Squirt recommending just wiping outside of chain with rag and reapplying (do not fully clean/degrease again). Started reading a bit more on ZFC but went cross-eyed, lots to process there.

[climberevan]

You were like 90% of the way to queso bliss, but you flubbed the landing. Squirt will never be as good at getting into the cervices as melted wax in a crock pot.

You prob need to reapply and use more than you think and really move the chain around a lot to get it in as much as possible. You will never need to degrease bc you can know just rinse with boiling water.

[ticketchecker]

Since I have commitment issues the hot tub of queso is beyond me, I’m a Squirt guy


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[Falcon3]

If y'all are going to use a drip wax product instead of hot tub filled with queso, at least use one of the better drip waxes like Silca Super Secret or UFO drip wax. Squirt and Smoove both did fairly terribly compared to UFO or Silca in ZF's wear testing, including the blocks where there was no contaminants added.

[J. Barron DeJong]

If y'all are going to use a drip wax product instead of hot tub filled with queso, at least use one of the better drip waxes like Silca Super Secret or UFO drip wax. Squirt and Smoove both did fairly terribly compared to UFO or Silca in ZF's wear testing, including the blocks where there was no contaminants added.

Tru Tension is in that same class of ‘drip lubes that have similar properties as hot melt’ as well, at a more reasonable price.

https://www.tru-tension.com/product/...-weather-lube/

https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/w...ather-v1.2.pdf

(don’t have personal experience with it)

[XXX-er]

So I have not gone full hot tub of queso, but I put on a new chain and cassette on the road bike last night and tried Squirt for the first time. I followed the Silca new chain cleaning guide (multiple soak/shake baths of first Mineral Spirits and then methyl hydrate, let the chain dry in the hot sun for an hour). First ride this morning was a bit noisier than expected but it sounds like that is normal? To be fair, my Ultegra chainrings probably have 1500-2000km on them but are still good wear wise.

How often/when should I reapply more Squirt? ZFC says ~6h on a road bike, with Squirt recommending just wiping outside of chain with rag and reapplying (do not fully clean/degrease again). Started reading a bit more on ZFC but went cross-eyed, lots to process there.

I coil a new chain in the bottom of a spaggheti sauce jar and cover it with an inch of white gas AKA Naptha to clean off the shipping grease, pull it out and all the naptha evaps right away and the chain is super clean/ oil free, I hit a new chain with 2 apps of squirt and let dry

I re-apply squirt AFTER my 3rd ride cuz the water carrier has to dry/ evap and then it will be ready for the next ride

i don't clean/ degrease/ do anything to the chain cuz there is no grease and from using it on an indoor trainer extra wax bits just flake off, you are just dripping product on a chain but you do it after the ride instead of before

Squirt is readily available at one of the MEC outlets eh

[climberevan]

Tru Tension is in that same class of ‘drip lubes that have similar properties as hot melt’ as well, at a more reasonable price.

I used TT for a bottle as a top-up when wax got tired. It's not terrible.

Compared with the Super Secret that I'm now using, however, it's not as nice. TT gets dirtier, and doesn't keep things quiet as long. SS is worth the extra cost, especially when you get it on sale (Silca regularly has sales).

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

I know it just came out, but anyone use the strip chip yet? https://silca.cc/products/strip-chip

Assuming it works as advertised, it's pretty impressive that Silca just eliminated the entire step of stripping factory grease off a chain.

[Roxtar]

I know it just came out, but anyone use the strip chip yet? https://silca.cc/products/strip-chip

Assuming it works as advertised, it's pretty impressive that Silca just eliminated the entire step of stripping factory grease off a chain.

Hmm, sounds kindof, well, hmmm.
Not sure where the oil lube goes except into the queso which kindof kills the whole point of wax.
I'd be real curious as to what's in those bars to eliminate the oil.

[Roxtar]

Well, just looked and, sure enough, ZF has a vid about it. Stay tuned.

EDIT AFTER WATCHING:

Not much info there. Kind of out of character, Adam uses the word "magic" a little too often for my likes. He seems to be more concerned about the cost than the actual, does it work? If so, how?
Hopefully more beta to come.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

It's a marketing vid, but they have some great info here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEnD95UwE3w

[J. Barron DeJong]

Some good info in this article as well:

https://escapecollective.com/silca-s...greased-chain/

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Gonna have to find out if my cheap used crockpot can hit 125c or not. Seems like that temp is what really makes it work

[Roxtar]

A lot of science that may or may not be correct. Even if it is, I see it as a solution to a non-existing problem.
Is cleaning a new chain once really that much of a problem? Enough to buy an expensive heating pot and having to be that exacting with the process?
Drop chain in can of gasoline, swish it around. Drop chain in alcohol, swish it around. Literally a few minutes of "work". And it's only done ONCE, over the entire life of the chain.

One thing I love about hot queso is the simplicity. Turn on the crock pot and walk away. Drop chain in and walk away. Remove chain at your convenience and hang to cool.
Cheap, easy, simple.

In the name of simplifying the one-time cleaning, they complicated the overall process, and made it way more $$.

Not seein it. Not even close.

[J. Barron DeJong]

A lot of science that may or may not be correct. Even if it is, I see it as a solution to a non-existing problem.
Is cleaning a new chain once really that much of a problem? Enough to buy an expensive heating pot and having to be that exacting with the process?
Drop chain in can of gasoline, swish it around. Drop chain in alcohol, swish it around. Literally a few minutes of "work". And it's only done ONCE, over the entire life of the chain.

One thing I love about hot queso is the simplicity. Turn on the crock pot and walk away. Drop chain in and walk away. Remove chain at your convenience and hang to cool.
Cheap, easy, simple.

In the name of simplifying the one-time cleaning, they complicated the overall process, and made it way more $$.

Not seein it. Not even close.

I think they’re trying to do everything possible to overcome the initial barrier to entry in waxing (other than price here, obviously).

Just buy a complete starter kit and drop your chain in.

Personally I’m fine with cleaning the new chain, and if I wasn’t but wanted to wax, I’d likely buy a pre-waxed chain to get myself started instead of this. But this does seem convenient.