The Hot Tub of Queso/Waxed Chain Thread

[J. Barron DeJong]

Dude's been one of the biggest blowhard douchebags on the entire internet for going on 20 years now.

Maybe I should be thankful this is the first time I’ve come across this guy then.

[Roxtar]

Maybe I should be thankful this is the first time I’ve come across this guy then.

X2

[XXX-er]

The thing is, by spending all day in a dusty environment, that dust is going to get into your drivetrain, no way around it. Yes, wax lube will be louder/squeakier than standard lube (oil based) in that case.
However, that doesn't mean the oil is working better. The oil will do a better job of quieting the chain but quiet doesn't necessarily mean better.
In these conditions oil, or any wet lube will be a magnet to all that grit and just grind it into the drivetrain. You may not hear it as much but it's definitely doing more damage.
A wax lubed drivetrain may be noisier in that situation but at least it won't collect near as much grit and will actually somewhat repel it.

While your ears may disagree, in those conditions, a hot wax lube is even more better.

yeah pretty much this ^^ i don't see how one would/ could keep the local dirt off their chain ??

I duno what the locals use in Moab but on an 8 day trip I did an initial drip wax + maybe 2 apps of drip while we were there cuz I drip every 3rd ride, the chain got a coating of what I assume was red dust from the local dirt but I didnt notice any extra noise or drive train problems

YMMV but once I initialy get all the petro lube off of a new chain using naptha I don't use anything but drip wax so the chain stays clean/ petro free, IME wax + local dirt is much cleaner than a petro product + local dirt and I never remove or clean the chain

So where does the wax go ? probably the same place petro lube goes from what i have seen using a road bike with trainer indoors the bits of wax fling themself off onto the floor ... I just add more drip wax

In practical use drip wax is not really all that different than using a petro lube just applying before putting away the bike instead of before i ride

[jamal]

Yeah he's a huge piece of shit.

Anyway, the full degrease and hot tub I assume get a lot more wax actually in the chain so it lasts longer and keeps more dirt out.

But also I do use squirt on my chain between hot waxing and it seems fine (just ran out and bought a thing of silca super secret instead). Winter was pretty rough on the chain on my cx bike but after 2500mi it's not really measuring any wear yet. I should probably be taking it off and waxing it more often though, I think I've only done it 3-4 times.

[Roxtar]

Another thing regarding this noisiness. It is strictly the grit on the chain making it. It doesn't necessarily mean the chain needs more lube.
Here in NM moon dust is everywhere and thus, things get a little noisy by the end of most rides. I just do a quick low pressure/high volume hose rinse of the chain and all is good.

[climberevan]

Another thing regarding this noisiness. It is strictly the grit on the chain making it. It doesn't necessarily mean the chain needs more lube.
Here in NM moon dust is everywhere and thus, things get a little noisy by the end of most rides. I just do a quick low pressure/high volume hose rinse of the chain and all is good.

This is a good point. Simply rinsing the chain can make the noise go away for longer than you'd think.

I also regularly notice that chains feel quite well-lubed after I wash them in boiling water in preparation for a re-wax, even when they had been horribly noisy. I agree with the others that the noise is probably still faster than using oil and actually having dirt inside of the chain.

But holy shit, it sure sounds like the drivetrain is going to self-destruct when it gets bad.

[joetron]

From what I’ve experienced, it also seems like 12sp Shimano chains get extra noisy surprisingly quickly when dry, especially in the 2biggest cogs.


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[rideit]

Dude's been one of the biggest blowhard douchebags on the entire internet for going on 20 years now.

Damn, I thought I had a lock on that. I need to work harder!

[east or bust]

White gas or mineral spirits for initial clean? I have both.

Probably go with whatever cleans better up front and can always do an ISO or brake cleaner rinse to get any residue.

[J. Barron DeJong]

White gas or mineral spirits for initial clean? I have both.

Probably go with whatever cleans better up front and can always do an ISO or brake cleaner rinse to get any residue.

Zero Friction process is mineral spirits changes until they stay clear, then an alcohol rinse to remove residue.

I have a lot of Coleman fuel, so use that. I still do the alcohol rinse, but not sure it’s actually necessary with the Coleman.

ETA: Zero Friction does pre-prepped chains with the approval of the lube manufacturers, so the ZF process is de-facto lube manufacturer process as well.

[XXX-er]

ime coiling the chain in a few inches of of naptha AKA white gas in a jam jar overnight gets the chain super clean and the liquid evaporates completely so the chain is dry, no residue no rinsing needed

[Roxtar]

I've heard good things about starting with gasoline. It seems like it would break down anything (oils, waxes, etc) pretty thoroughly.
Never tried it but maybe on next chain.

[XXX-er]

I had a can of white gas AKA Naptha in the shed, I figured since I got it ... try it

coil the chain into a 3" jar so its easier to cover with white gas,

let soak overnight and the chain will come out super clean, no need to pre-soak, no need to rinse

[east or bust]

Cool, going to commence the soak with white gas tonight and will report back sometime in the next few days.

[Roxtar]

Cool, going to commence the soak with white gas tonight and will report back sometime in the next few days.

Well?

[toast2266]

I've heard good things about starting with gasoline. It seems like it would break down anything (oils, waxes, etc) pretty thoroughly.
Never tried it but maybe on next chain.

I find gasoline cleans better than mineral spirits, but it's nastier to work with, so I still just use mineral spirits.

[Roxtar]

I find gasoline cleans better than mineral spirits, but it's nastier to work with, so I still just use mineral spirits.

I agree but mineral spirits doesn't seem to break down the heavy lubes used in new chains that well.
Especially getting in the rollers.
Hoping white gas is a good middle ground.

[climberevan]

I'm rewaxing 2 chains today for our gravel bikes. The first one is in the wax and so far I'm into it for about 5 minutes of active work time. Will def be under 8 mins total.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I'm rewaxing 2 chains today for our gravel bikes. The first one is in the wax and so far I'm into it for about 5 minutes of active work time. Will def be under 8 mins total.

You’re a lying sack of shit.

/s

[XtrPickels]

From what I’ve experienced, it also seems like 12sp Shimano chains get extra noisy surprisingly quickly when dry, especially in the 2biggest cogs.


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That was my situation

[J. Barron DeJong]

I just melt candles and bees wax. One of the reasons I like wax is because it's quiet.

I tried an Amazon ultrasonic washer and it did not clean that well. An old dishwasher in the garage is what I use to wash bike parts, car parts, boots, and cruddy alpine gear.

I haven’t tried any hot melt chain wax other than Molten Speed Wax, but my guess is that while your mix is probably better than the majority of the other chain lube options out there, there’s likely some additional benefit to going with a purpose made formula.

Like, putting candle wax on your skis is probably better than a lot of other things you could put on there (whale blubber maybe?), but a purpose made formulation is going to be better.

I’ve wondered if ski wax itself would make a good chain wax. Maybe a moly formula.

The potential downside is see with candle wax/beeswax (again noting that I haven’t tried it) is that candle wax likely has some paraffin oil in it, and beeswax is usually a bit tacky, both of which would make it more likely to pick up contamination, and also not shed wax particles to the same degree (which helps carry out contamination).

And the paraffin oil content is what makes lubes like squirt/smoove unable to be cleaned with just hot water. (Have you tried to see if your formula can be cleaned by just swishing in water?)

My guess is that ski wax is more similar to the low-oil base wax being used in the hot melt chain wax, but I could be wrong.

[Cocximus]

This is a safe space? Ok here it goes. I got some Teflon and some moly(bdenum) powder off AliExpress. I put those in my wax. Dunno if it has any gains but it makes it feel way faster.

I use beeswax on purpose so the wax sticks to the chain longer. I easily get over a month between waxing.

I can't quantify how easy it is to clean it, but it's definitely way way less hassle than oil based gunk. Usually I put the chain under hot water and it's clean enough. A few times when it was extra dirty I swirled it in a boiling pot. I dip it in my microwaved jar and it's silent again for a month.

I broke two chains when I tried the ultrasonic cleaner. Dunno if it somehow weakened the chain or I put out some incredible wattage. Since then I stopped stravaing. Now I measure my performance based on how many chains I break a season.

[Falcon3]

From what I’ve experienced, it also seems like 12sp Shimano chains get extra noisy surprisingly quickly when dry, especially in the 2biggest cogs.

I just take a dry rag and wipe the outside of the chain off- it quiets it down and the wax is still inside the rollers so it's well-lubed. I think it's just the outer plates making the noise.

[Falcon3]

This is a safe space? Ok here it goes. I got some Teflon and some moly(bdenum) powder off AliExpress. I put those in my wax. Dunno if it has any gains but it makes it feel way faster.

This is a safe space and I'm glad you told us. That said, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. Teflon has pretty limited benefits when you're already using wax and moly, and you're spewing forever chemicals all over, plus exposing yourself to them in a form where its far more likely to enter your body than if it were in a frying pan or whatever.

[J. Barron DeJong]

This is a safe space and I'm glad you told us. That said, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. Teflon has pretty limited benefits when you're already using wax and moly, and you're spewing forever chemicals all over, plus exposing yourself to them in a form where its far more likely to enter your body than if it were in a frying pan or whatever.

FWIW, my understanding is that both Silca and MSW are using tungsten disulfide now. Phased out Teflon and moly.

Coxcimus, did you every try MSW or Silca? Wondering if you have a comparison.