The Hot Tub of Queso/Waxed Chain Thread

[Roxtar]

I just sold my 2020 Ripmo and just realized something. Both myself and Mrs. Roxtar have each gotten three years out of our XTR chains with no end in sight. They are still gauging well within limits.
In fairness, I do a two chain rotation with each bike (Allows me to change chains when I want and rewax when it's convenient) so that usage is cut in half but still pretty good.

[XXX-er]

how far is that ?

I did 2 full seasons of abuse on an E-bike which was 2200 kms with squirt

The old chain is < .75 so i put it back in the container for a spare

[Roxtar]

No idea. I don't keep up with mileage.
Figure 3-4 rides/week with a 10-11 month riding season in NM moon dust.

[XXX-er]

I usually don't pay attention to mileage either but E-bike has a speedo/ odometer, i would drip the squirt every 3 rides and let it dry overnight

[evdog]

Tonight at costco... 3kg tubs of queso for the intrepid cyclist.

[sb]

I tried that stuff once.

Had to chuck it.

Felt like i was eating poison.

[Dee Hubbs]

After a night of heavy drinking and partying I rolled over in the morning and my arm made a slapping sound on something somewhat cold and somewhat pliable, and yet firm at the same time.
It actually felt like what I would imagine a naked dead body would feel like. The fear of that idea made me jump up in bed, it was then that I then realized that I had 140oz bag of Nacho Cheese Sauce in my bed.
So with a foggy recall of the previous night I remembered that we went to 7-11 after the bar, and we made fun of my drunk buddy getting nachos, we joked that he could not get enough nacho cheese sauce into his little cardboard nacho bowl, so I opened the cupboard beside the machine and saw a big replacement bag of cheese for the machine, and put it in my pants and walked out of the shop.
I must have been so pleased with my prize when I got home I took it to bed with me. It was a bit of a surprise when I slapped in the morning.

[bagtagley]

A queso miracle!

[XtrPickels]

I queso'd a few new chains in the Instapot last weekend.
Feels nice.

[rideit]

I just got all of my new stuff, gonna try it on the gravel bike first. I am planning on using a disposable aluminum pan liner to melt the wax in the ultrasonic cleaner, I’ll report back how it all worked out.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Anyone else using the Silca Super Secret drip lube? I was doing a hot wax all last year, but just gave the Silca drip stuff a shot. Chain was completely silent for a 100 mile road ride. Which, wasn't my experience at all with hot wax. Besides the cost, are there downsides to just running the Silca drip stuff?

[XtrPickels]

I have the Silca wax in the Instapot for my main waxings and then I refresh with the drip.

The drip doesn't work itself in between the rollers as well, so it doesn't last as long on a single treatment. For general riding, more frequent waxing with the drip is fine, but if you have a big day planned that is going to test the longevity I'd dunk in the hot wax.

The drip also gets very thick if it experiences freezing temps and remains unuseable even after it warms up. (All waxes do this- I think the water emulsifier gets separated from the wax). I've had OK luck heating it gentle in the microwave, adding a small bit of water, and shaking vigorously to try to re-emulsify.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Good to know. Sounds like I can't skip hot waxing completely, but maybe knock the hot wax down to like 1-2x a month at most, then use the drip stuff in between. That still beats hot waxing more often.

[rideit]

So, finally trying this after 45 years of oiling chains. Impressions so far are very, very good. Clean, quiet. Started with an absolutely brand new GRX group, so just mineral spirits to deep clean. All I am curious about now is longevity.

[climberevan]

You'll prob just forget about wear entirely if you don't ride that bike 200mi a week. It's crazy how long a waxed drivetrain lasts.

[XXX-er]

I have the Silca wax in the Instapot for my main waxings and then I refresh with the drip.

The drip doesn't work itself in between the rollers as well, so it doesn't last as long on a single treatment. For general riding, more frequent waxing with the drip is fine, but if you have a big day planned that is going to test the longevity I'd dunk in the hot wax.

The drip also gets very thick if it experiences freezing temps and remains unuseable even after it warms up. (All waxes do this- I think the water emulsifier gets separated from the wax). I've had OK luck heating it gentle in the microwave, adding a small bit of water, and shaking vigorously to try to re-emulsify.

Duno about silca wax but I e-mailed the guys at Squirt asking what to do if it freezes and gets thicker ? They said to just add some water which did work but now i take that stuff in every winter

[XtrPickels]

So, I finished Tran-Portugal this week and we had a couple of dry, very fine dust, stages between 5 to 7 hours long.
The waxed chain sucked.

Prior to leaving I dipped a brand new (cleaned) chain in the Silca wax and then reapplied Silca drip after every stage.
The chain always started the day sounding and feeling fresh, but it sound like a bag of rocks within a couple of hours, especially when climbing hard in the 1st or 2nd gear.
I switched to my repair kit wet lube and while the chain was visibly dirtier it was at least quiet.

So, in very fine, powdery sand - the wax lube didn't hold up.

[Meconium]

[bean]

So, I finished Tran-Portugal this week and we had a couple of dry, very fine dust, stages between 5 to 7 hours long.
The waxed chain sucked.

Congrats on finishing. How'd it go? Sounded like hitting training goals was sometimes challenging. Race report coming?

[climberevan]

very fine dust, stages between 5 to 7 hours long.
The waxed chain sucked.
in very fine, powdery sand - the wax lube didn't hold up.

Congrats!

This is my experience as well. I'm still sold on waxing, but compromises must be made for super fine dust conditions, at least after ~4 hours.

Portner has some thoughts on this topic in the most recent Marginal Gains. He claims that the noise is annoying but still faster than wet lube, though eventually you must give in and oil that shit. https://pca.st/episode/6f545b0b-726e...2-dec07120184f

[J. Barron DeJong]

Fuck if I’m watching some internet pissing contest.

Zero Friction seems to be doing high quality work. I trust their results. That said, they’re doing very structured testing, so it’s not going to recreate everything that’s found out the world. Do certain lubes work better at cold temps? In certain dust/sand? Maybe.

Zero Friction does have guidance on lubrication strategies for long events as well. Not sure if it’s different than what XTR tried.

[Meconium]

I wonder what it would be like to go to a queso/waxed chain convention. Possibly a good modern day rendition of the The Pez Outlaw could be documented live.

[Roxtar]

The thing is, by spending all day in a dusty environment, that dust is going to get into your drivetrain, no way around it. Yes, wax lube will be louder/squeakier than standard lube (oil based) in that case.
However, that doesn't mean the oil is working better. The oil will do a better job of quieting the chain but quiet doesn't necessarily mean better.
In these conditions oil, or any wet lube will be a magnet to all that grit and just grind it into the drivetrain. You may not hear it as much but it's definitely doing more damage.
A wax lubed drivetrain may be noisier in that situation but at least it won't collect near as much grit and will actually somewhat repel it.

While your ears may disagree, in those conditions, a hot wax lube is even more better.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I hate myself for it, but I watched this idiot’s stupid video.

His complaint is that Zero Friction just tries to get people to buy overpriced hot melt lube, but you should just use Squirt? That hot melt waxing is a waste of time and effort?

Looks like they don’t currently have it in store, but ZF was selling Squirt and Smoove for a long time, so not sure what the complaint is exactly?

And ZF is very clear on the advantages of hot melt, but also acknowledges that many people aren’t going to go through the effort. To me they seem to do a great job (well, could be much more concise…) of explaining trade offs for different types of lubes.

For Squirt specifically, a big disadvantage is initial penetration. If you start with a clean chain, it’s very hard to get the lube to where it needs to be inside the chain. That means that even when run in a very clean environment, there is a lot of wear until subsequent applications can help get the lube further in. But then if/when the chain is cleaned thoroughly, you’re back to the initial penetration issue. (That means something like 20% of chain life used used up with Squirt vs, virtually no wear at all for the best lubes in ZF’s initial ‘clean block’ of wear testing.)

Squirt is also much more difficult to clean off the chain. With MSW or Silca hot melt, as well as a few of the more expensive drip wax lubes, the chain can be cleaned by just swishing it around in some hot water. That doesn’t work for Squirt (I’ve tried). Since it’s so easy to clean, that means I actually do it, which regardless of differences in performance of the lube itself, is going to have a huge effect on drivetrain life. (The same is true with using plain paraffin wax instead of bike specific products, the mineral oil content prevents the use of just water for cleaning.)

In short, that guy seems like a giant douche, but I guess he rides faster than Adam from ZF, so his argument wins?

Edit: If you want a drip wax lube that performs similarly to hot melt, Tru-Tension Tungsten All Weather is the best value, but still more expensive than Squirt or Smoove.

[Dantheman]

I hate myself for it, but I watched this idiot’s stupid video.

Dude's been one of the biggest blowhard douchebags on the entire internet for going on 20 years now.