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  1. #101
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    The Douchebag Paradox: If you're scared of becoming an asshole, you won't be an asshole.

  2. #102
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    National park question

    Almost back on topic, long form article articulating the argument of returning the national park lands to the Tribes.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...tribes/618395/

    Here’s the conclusive section:
    “All 85 million acres of national-park sites should be turned over to a consortium of federally recognized tribes in the United States. (A few areas run by the National Park Service, such as the National Mall, would be excepted.) The total acreage would not quite make up for the General Allotment Act, which robbed us of 90 million acres, but it would ensure that we have unfettered access to our tribal homelands. And it would restore dignity that was rightfully ours. To be entrusted with the stewardship of America’s most precious landscapes would be a deeply meaningful form of restitution. Alongside the feelings of awe that Americans experience while contemplating the god-rock of Yosemite and other places like it, we could take inspiration in having done right by one another.

    Placing these lands under collective Native control would be good not just for Natives, but for the parks as well. In addition to our deep and abiding reverence for wild spaces, tribes have a long history of administering to widely dispersed holdings and dealing with layers of bureaucracy. Many reservations are checkerboarded: Large parcels of reservation land are scattered and separated from one another. And much of the land within reservation boundaries is owned by a number of different interests—private, nontribal citizens; corporations; states; the federal government—that tribal leadership balances and accommodates. Through hard practice—and in the face of centuries of legal, political, and physical struggle—Indian communities have become adept at the art of governance. And tribes have a hard-earned understanding of the ways in which land empowers the people it sustains.

    Transferring the parks to the tribes would protect them from partisan back-and-forth in Washington. And the transfer should be subject to binding covenants guaranteeing a standard of conservation that is at least as stringent as what the park system enforces today, so that the parks’ ecological health would be preserved—and improved—long into the future. The federal government should continue to offer some financial support for park maintenance, in order to keep fees low for visitors, and the tribes would continue to allow universal access to the parks in perpetuity. Bikers and toddlers, Instagram models and Tony Hawk—all would be welcome. We would govern these beautiful places for ourselves, but also for all Americans.

    There is precedent for this kind of transfer. The indigenous peoples of Australia and New Zealand now control some of those countries’ most significant natural landmarks. For instance: Uluru, previously called Ayers Rock, was transferred to the Anangu decades ago. Thanks to legislation passed in 1976, nearly half of the Northern Territory of Australia has been returned to Aboriginal peoples. In 2017, New Zealand’s Māori were granted a greater role in the conservation of the Whanganui River, on New Zealand’s North Island. The public is still free to visit as before, but the Māori now have more oversight of the use of the river.

    There is a precedent for this kind of transfer in America, too. In 1880, France began work on the Panama Canal, which the United States took over in 1904. Theodore Roosevelt (he keeps coming up) wanted to see it through, and so he worked out a deal with Panamanian nationalists, whereby the U.S. would receive the canal in exchange for help overthrowing the Colombian government. But in 1977, President Jimmy Carter and General Omar Torrijos of Panama signed an agreement that outlined the transfer of control of the canal to Panama. The canal was jointly managed by the two countries until 1999, when control reverted fully and finally to Panama. It doesn’t happen often, but the United States has given things back.

    In 1914, the historian Frederick Jackson Turner argued that American democracy was forged on the frontier. It was there that the uniquely American mixture of egalitarianism, self-reliance, and individualism commingled to form the nation and its character. “American democracy,” he said, “was born of no theorist’s dream … It came out of the American forest, and it gained new strength each time it touched a new frontier.”

    Turner was almost right. It wasn’t the frontier that made us as much as the land itself, land that has always been Native land but that has also come to be American. The national parks are the closest thing America has to sacred lands, and like the frontier of old, they can help forge our democracy anew. More than just America’s “best idea,” the parks are the best of America, the jewels of its landscape. It’s time they were returned to America’s original peoples.”

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    Almost back on topic, long form article articulating the argument of returning the national park lands to the Tribes.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...tribes/618395/

    Here’s the conclusive section:
    “All 85 million acres of national-park sites should be turned over to a consortium of federally recognized tribes in the United States. (A few areas run by the National Park Service, such as the National Mall, would be excepted.) The total acreage would not quite make up for the General Allotment Act, which robbed us of 90 million acres, but it would ensure that we have unfettered access to our tribal homelands. And it would restore dignity that was rightfully ours. To be entrusted with the stewardship of America’s most precious landscapes would be a deeply meaningful form of restitution. Alongside the feelings of awe that Americans experience while contemplating the god-rock of Yosemite and other places like it, we could take inspiration in having done right by one another.

    Placing these lands under collective Native control would be good not just for Natives, but for the parks as well. In addition to our deep and abiding reverence for wild spaces, tribes have a long history of administering to widely dispersed holdings and dealing with layers of bureaucracy. Many reservations are checkerboarded: Large parcels of reservation land are scattered and separated from one another. And much of the land within reservation boundaries is owned by a number of different interests—private, nontribal citizens; corporations; states; the federal government—that tribal leadership balances and accommodates. Through hard practice—and in the face of centuries of legal, political, and physical struggle—Indian communities have become adept at the art of governance. And tribes have a hard-earned understanding of the ways in which land empowers the people it sustains.

    Transferring the parks to the tribes would protect them from partisan back-and-forth in Washington. And the transfer should be subject to binding covenants guaranteeing a standard of conservation that is at least as stringent as what the park system enforces today, so that the parks’ ecological health would be preserved—and improved—long into the future. The federal government should continue to offer some financial support for park maintenance, in order to keep fees low for visitors, and the tribes would continue to allow universal access to the parks in perpetuity. Bikers and toddlers, Instagram models and Tony Hawk—all would be welcome. We would govern these beautiful places for ourselves, but also for all Americans.

    There is precedent for this kind of transfer. The indigenous peoples of Australia and New Zealand now control some of those countries’ most significant natural landmarks. For instance: Uluru, previously called Ayers Rock, was transferred to the Anangu decades ago. Thanks to legislation passed in 1976, nearly half of the Northern Territory of Australia has been returned to Aboriginal peoples. In 2017, New Zealand’s Māori were granted a greater role in the conservation of the Whanganui River, on New Zealand’s North Island. The public is still free to visit as before, but the Māori now have more oversight of the use of the river.

    There is a precedent for this kind of transfer in America, too. In 1880, France began work on the Panama Canal, which the United States took over in 1904. Theodore Roosevelt (he keeps coming up) wanted to see it through, and so he worked out a deal with Panamanian nationalists, whereby the U.S. would receive the canal in exchange for help overthrowing the Colombian government. But in 1977, President Jimmy Carter and General Omar Torrijos of Panama signed an agreement that outlined the transfer of control of the canal to Panama. The canal was jointly managed by the two countries until 1999, when control reverted fully and finally to Panama. It doesn’t happen often, but the United States has given things back.

    In 1914, the historian Frederick Jackson Turner argued that American democracy was forged on the frontier. It was there that the uniquely American mixture of egalitarianism, self-reliance, and individualism commingled to form the nation and its character. “American democracy,” he said, “was born of no theorist’s dream … It came out of the American forest, and it gained new strength each time it touched a new frontier.”

    Turner was almost right. It wasn’t the frontier that made us as much as the land itself, land that has always been Native land but that has also come to be American. The national parks are the closest thing America has to sacred lands, and like the frontier of old, they can help forge our democracy anew. More than just America’s “best idea,” the parks are the best of America, the jewels of its landscape. It’s time they were returned to America’s original peoples.”
    Well fuck that proposal if it includes leaving the welcome mat rolled out for Instagram models. If they had solved that issue by launching all Instagram models into the sun, they would've had me.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    Almost back on topic, long form article articulating the argument of returning the national park lands to the Tribes.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...tribes/618395/

    Here’s the conclusive section:
    “All 85 million acres of national-park sites should be turned over to a consortium of federally recognized tribes in the United States. (A few areas run by the National Park Service, such as the National Mall, would be excepted.) The total acreage would not quite make up for the General Allotment Act, which robbed us of 90 million acres, but it would ensure that we have unfettered access to our tribal homelands. And it would restore dignity that was rightfully ours. To be entrusted with the stewardship of America’s most precious landscapes would be a deeply meaningful form of restitution. Alongside the feelings of awe that Americans experience while contemplating the god-rock of Yosemite and other places like it, we could take inspiration in having done right by one another.

    Placing these lands under collective Native control would be good not just for Natives, but for the parks as well. In addition to our deep and abiding reverence for wild spaces, tribes have a long history of administering to widely dispersed holdings and dealing with layers of bureaucracy. Many reservations are checkerboarded: Large parcels of reservation land are scattered and separated from one another. And much of the land within reservation boundaries is owned by a number of different interests—private, nontribal citizens; corporations; states; the federal government—that tribal leadership balances and accommodates. Through hard practice—and in the face of centuries of legal, political, and physical struggle—Indian communities have become adept at the art of governance. And tribes have a hard-earned understanding of the ways in which land empowers the people it sustains.

    Transferring the parks to the tribes would protect them from partisan back-and-forth in Washington. And the transfer should be subject to binding covenants guaranteeing a standard of conservation that is at least as stringent as what the park system enforces today, so that the parks’ ecological health would be preserved—and improved—long into the future. The federal government should continue to offer some financial support for park maintenance, in order to keep fees low for visitors, and the tribes would continue to allow universal access to the parks in perpetuity. Bikers and toddlers, Instagram models and Tony Hawk—all would be welcome. We would govern these beautiful places for ourselves, but also for all Americans.

    There is precedent for this kind of transfer. The indigenous peoples of Australia and New Zealand now control some of those countries’ most significant natural landmarks. For instance: Uluru, previously called Ayers Rock, was transferred to the Anangu decades ago. Thanks to legislation passed in 1976, nearly half of the Northern Territory of Australia has been returned to Aboriginal peoples. In 2017, New Zealand’s Māori were granted a greater role in the conservation of the Whanganui River, on New Zealand’s North Island. The public is still free to visit as before, but the Māori now have more oversight of the use of the river.

    There is a precedent for this kind of transfer in America, too. In 1880, France began work on the Panama Canal, which the United States took over in 1904. Theodore Roosevelt (he keeps coming up) wanted to see it through, and so he worked out a deal with Panamanian nationalists, whereby the U.S. would receive the canal in exchange for help overthrowing the Colombian government. But in 1977, President Jimmy Carter and General Omar Torrijos of Panama signed an agreement that outlined the transfer of control of the canal to Panama. The canal was jointly managed by the two countries until 1999, when control reverted fully and finally to Panama. It doesn’t happen often, but the United States has given things back.

    In 1914, the historian Frederick Jackson Turner argued that American democracy was forged on the frontier. It was there that the uniquely American mixture of egalitarianism, self-reliance, and individualism commingled to form the nation and its character. “American democracy,” he said, “was born of no theorist’s dream … It came out of the American forest, and it gained new strength each time it touched a new frontier.”

    Turner was almost right. It wasn’t the frontier that made us as much as the land itself, land that has always been Native land but that has also come to be American. The national parks are the closest thing America has to sacred lands, and like the frontier of old, they can help forge our democracy anew. More than just America’s “best idea,” the parks are the best of America, the jewels of its landscape. It’s time they were returned to America’s original peoples.”
    Oh great. Casinos and Skywalks.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    698

    National park question

    Quote Originally Posted by BFD View Post
    come on up. Some towns or villages may still have some restrictions but the state just has an advisory.
    https://www.travelalaska.com/Planning/Tips/COVID19.aspx
    I just flew up and the rates are still cheap.
    Alaska bound in July! Rented an RV - should be a fun time. We always tent camp, but the kids have wanted to try RVing so should be fun. (and was our best option since rental cars are unavailable). Flying into Anchorage. Under $1400 for the 4 of us. Way cheaper than flying to Maine which was our other favorite option.
    Quote Originally Posted by My Pet Powder Goat View Post
    Come for the poo-slinging, Save a fortune on a plumber.

  6. #106
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    Jan 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikesalot View Post
    Alaska bound in July! Rented an RV - should be a fun time. We always tent camp, but the kids have wanted to try RVing so should be fun. (and was our best option since rental cars are unavailable). Flying into Anchorage. Under $1400 for the 4 of us. Way cheaper than flying to Maine which was our other favorite option.
    If you’re trying to go fishing book sooner than later. We’re already filling up. Got more days booked so far than we had all last season. Looks to be a good summer!
    But Ellen kicks ass - if she had a beard it would be much more haggard. -Jer

  7. #107
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    Dec 2007
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    base of the Bush
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    Ya gotta start getting up earlier to avoid teh line.

    And the now daily full lot.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	arch_traffic-3.jpg 
Views:	99 
Size:	1.63 MB 
ID:	374321
    www.apriliaforum.com

    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

    "I have no idea what I am talking about but would be happy to share my biased opinions as fact on the matter. "
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  8. #108
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    Apr 2021
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    352
    It's weird how everyone takes their time to go to Arches to hit it up when there is no parking and the sun is the strongest. I bet at 6pm there is no line and not even a Park ranger at the booth collecting fees.

  9. #109
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted reborn View Post
    It's weird how everyone takes their time to go to Arches to hit it up when there is no parking and the sun is the strongest. I bet at 6pm there is no line and not even a Park ranger at the booth collecting fees.
    That's why we call them tourons.

  10. #110
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    Nov 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted reborn View Post
    It's weird how everyone takes their time to go to Arches to hit it up when there is no parking and the sun is the strongest. I bet at 6pm there is no line and not even a Park ranger at the booth collecting fees.
    Better yet, be there at 6AM. My last trip into arches was about 4 years ago. Implored the old folks to be ready to go in the dark. Not a big ask for them.
    We were just entering the park as the sun rose. The next hour of great light (and very few drivers) was stunning.
    They were blown away.
    It had been prolly a dozen years since I'd been in and I forgot how amazing that place is.

    And as a frequent visitor to GTNP just down the way, I gotta say the line problem lies more with the gatekeepers than the tourists. They will discuss anything with someone when they should take the moniez, Lebowski, and direct you to the visitor center. Be cool, but move it along.
    It such a crapshoot which lane to get in, and like the drive thru, yer bound to get screwed.
    It's a treat when they offer an extra lane for passholders only.
    What a deal, $80 buck for entry to any park, from Denali to the 'Glades.

    I'm down. Riding the motorbike thru the Park after dinner is relaxing and quiet as opposed to the 6-6 crowd. More likely to dodge a large mammal.

  11. #111
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    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted reborn View Post
    It's weird how everyone takes their time to go to Arches to hit it up when there is no parking and the sun is the strongest. I bet at 6pm there is no line and not even a Park ranger at the booth collecting fees.
    Yup.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  12. #112
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    Pretty sick. They closed the entrance to Arches at 10 am today

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  13. #113
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    Seattle
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    Yes, thank God most people are still too lazy to get up in the dark and get going. You can still manage to beat the crowds in most busy places.

  14. #114
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    Mar 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
    Ya gotta start getting up earlier to avoid teh line.

    And the now daily full lot.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	arch_traffic-3.jpg 
Views:	99 
Size:	1.63 MB 
ID:	374321
    That screenshot is suspect.

    I only see one Sprinter van.
    I still call it The Jake.

  15. #115
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    Oct 2003
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    Yeah, we were in at 7, pretty alone on our hike until getting back.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmillsSkier View Post
    That screenshot is suspect.

    I only see one Sprinter van.
    Holy shit, the market for those things must be nuts.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  17. #117
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    Apr 2021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Pretty sick. They closed the entrance to Arches at 10 am today
    That's been happening for weeks and will continue for weeks every day is my guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Holy shit, the market for those things must be nuts.
    Moab has such a large concentration in/around and driving to/from it's crazy. I was trying to think up a game, similar to slug bug sightings, but for sprinters last time I drove there (earlier this month).

    I couldn't think of anything. Maybe Overland Backhand? Slap your passenger with the back of your hand on every sighting. Or Camper Slapper?

  18. #118
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    What's funny, of course, is how clean most are.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  19. #119
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    coloRADo
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    So, basically, it'll be very hard to do a summertime Yose visit (unless, shhhhhhh, you do a mellow overnight out of one of the easier to reserve trailheads, and overstay your welcome by a day before and after at one of the backpacker car-camps). But if you can get in there, the Valley will actually be kind of pleasant compared to its usual summer city-scape.
    Driving out from Colorado to spend a month or two in Yosemite and the High Sierras (June, July), mostly climbing and/or hiking/mountaineering. Who can give me the 401? I was able to snag a number of day entry permits for Yosemite. There's no campgrounds available anywhere in the Valley. The High Sierra reservation system is nuts, so many trailheads and campgrounds to keep track of and try and reserve. It's insane... High clearance truck & camper, can I 4-wheel somewhere and hide from the nazis while I climb there for a month? What are the secrets to know to get in and spend time in the various places?

  20. #120
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    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    X

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  21. #121
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    I thought Zion would be the most crowded of all parks I saw on this trip, and, man, was I right. Holy crap, how do people enjoy that place? We drove through from the east at maybe 10am, and it was one big traffic jam all the way through on a Monday. No parking anywhere, and all turn off spaces taken. Jezuz H, there was still three lanes of cars coming in on the west side when we passed through, and, holy crap, they charge for parking on the side of the road leaving for a few miles. What a shitshow.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  22. #122
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    Dec 2010
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    Last Best City in the Last Best Place
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    National parks pretty much suck now unless you go off season.

  23. #123
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    Best option at Zion is to take the 6am shuttle, power up to Angel’s Landing before the crowds and be halfway down the West Rim Trail by 9am. Or go in on the Kolob Canyon side, hardly anyone there.

  24. #124
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    Apr 2005
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    I thought Zion would be the most crowded of all parks I saw on this trip, and, man, was I right. Holy crap, how do people enjoy that place? We drove through from the east at maybe 10am, and it was one big traffic jam all the way through on a Monday. No parking anywhere, and all turn off spaces taken. Jezuz H, there was still three lanes of cars coming in on the west side when we passed through, and, holy crap, they charge for parking on the side of the road leaving for a few miles. What a shitshow.
    Pay your $20 to park and take the free shuttle you hopefully had the foresight to reserve. And definitely kolob canyon, Taylor creek ain't a bad way to stretch the legs. Or head to the arch.

  25. #125
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    Ya gotta be heading in during the morning golden hour.
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