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Thread: Biker's Palsy - advice needed
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04-12-2021, 12:46 PM #26Registered User
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04-12-2021, 01:08 PM #27
Forty's advice is solid. It's amazing how much my core gets worked on the bike. The day after a long ride my midsection is more pissed than my legs. A 5 minutes techy downhill where you're really active on the bike should leave your core and legs reeling. Your hands shouldn't even notice with your index finger being the exception if things are real steep.
Gotta plug Free the Powder on this, their biking gloves are great. I've been on the same pair for 2.5 seasons now, they won't die and it's not for lack of trying. I've washed them a number of times and despite 0 conditioning the leather is still holding strong. I finally put a small tear in the upper but it's not widening for now. I bought a 2nd pair to replace the 1st and it's sitting in a box waiting for its turn. Price was right too."Your wife being mad is temporary, but pow turns do not get unmade" - mallwalker the wise
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04-12-2021, 01:10 PM #28
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04-12-2021, 01:37 PM #29
You were talking about Lost Lad the other day. I rode it yesterday and was kinda psyched to run into a big posse stopped in the middle of the trail. My legs were smoked from pumping hard through the upper turn and the jumps and I was actually wondering how well I'd handle myself on the lower tube if I was cooked. That thing requires some serious leg action to keep the rhythm (unless you want to straightline one of the berms and air out of the gully, never to be seen again).
Ride that thing top to bottom until your legs complain more than your hands and you'll be on the right track!"Your wife being mad is temporary, but pow turns do not get unmade" - mallwalker the wise
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04-12-2021, 01:38 PM #30Registered User
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Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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04-12-2021, 03:37 PM #31
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04-12-2021, 03:52 PM #32
Agree on the good padded glove advice. I've been on the MTB for almost 40 yrs and it wasn't until about 15 hrs ago that I really started engaging my core while riding. Riding fixt off-road taught me that and over the last 7, the moto solidified it. I learned that calluses are a sign of wasted energy and can greatly remove any grace you have by not being relaxed. As mentioned above, when it's steep and gnarly a tighter grip is required but for the other n%, it should just be firm, not tight. Like for climbing, you grip the rock as light as possible for each move and support, otherwise you just like out. Engaging core removes a significant amount of weight from you hands/upper body ánd will transfer it closer to your center. Steer with your hips and eyes, your arms are just there for support. Look at the top MTB/motocrossers, they have pencil arms for a reason and the reason is that they know how to ride. Anyway, that was long winded way to say engage your core and ride in the zone between your ass and feet. Weird nervy shit and calluses will be a thing of the past. It won't happen overnight, practice, practice, practice...this isn't like messing with clickers on your fork every couple miles. Proper riding technique takes time, even though you just dropped 5k on a plastic mountain bike.
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04-12-2021, 04:29 PM #33Registered User
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There's also Ergon grips with an integrated bar end. It's short and unobtrusive but gives you the option of moving your hand around just a bit (as well as some protection from tree strikes). I run them and love them.
This has always been my problem on mtb's for over 30 years. I gave up and just shake when I can. What's your take on the solution? I've tried all sortsa stuff over the years.
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04-12-2021, 07:09 PM #34
Biker's Palsy - advice needed
I just know the “shaking out” habit can be a sign of nerve irritation / compression. But I’m not an expert in how to easily alleviate it.
A lot of physiotherapists seem to also be athletes / athletic - so finding one who is into sports physiotherapy and/or mountain bikes themselves could help. Or a really expert bike fitter perhaps.
I’ve used the Ergon grips with the outside edge “shelf” to try and keep my wrist more neutral. But I’ve never had issues that occurred when off the bike (like what tgapp is experiencing with loss of fine motor function / sensation)
These photos might help:
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04-12-2021, 07:32 PM #35
I'm in the little-to-no padding in the gloves, and a little more bar sweep camp.
Google "light hands" or "light hands, heavy feet" for some tips/exercises/drills.
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04-12-2021, 07:51 PM #36
Off the top of my head- when thinking about nerve compression issues from biking I can imagine it’s a combination of all these things and more:
- torso length
- arm length
- seat height
- top tube length
- stem length
- stem angle
- bar width
- bar height
- bar sweep
- grip diameter
- grip material
- grip shape
- hand position on grip
- lever and shifter position
- glove padding
Plus add in suspension behavior, tire pressure, terrain, length of ride, even the temperature outside while biking can contribute.
Then your own personal anatomy plays a role (size of hands and wrists, location of bones and nerves and connective tissue)
Then the aforementioned core strength and how much weight you are putting through your arms/hands vs ass and legs. Plus how strong you are gripping the bars.
Then also if you have medical condition that makes you more susceptible to nerve dysfunction (obesity, diabetes, low functioning thyroid gland etc)
It’s complicated (and I’m likely forgetting some things)
But the solution doesn’t have to be complicated. The previous advice about core strength and light grip makes sense. And using the “what fingers are being affected” idea to then tweak your hand position can help if your improved core strength and light grip aren’t completely eliminating the issue.
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04-12-2021, 08:27 PM #37
As a climber you must know about hand/forearm pump and about muscle imbalance injuries. You've jumped into mountain biking whole hog and some of what you're doing has just strained the system with a one sided assault. There's a lot you can do, and tinkering around for the next year or two will most likely result in you finally ending up on a standard mountain bike setup with regular bars and grips. But that doesn't mean the journey is misguided. Much of it is just getting your body used to being on the bike a lot, and finding ways to baby it along for now. Experiment with brake lever angle, buy a few different grips, do a bunch of climbing style forearm stretches before, during and after rides. And nuke yourself with ibuprophen, ice, and Voltaren. At the end of the day, whatever is causing this is inflammation. Nip that in the bud so it's not chornic.
I spent a year on Ergon GP-1 Grips, then moved to SQ Lab 711 grips for another couple years. Both of those were pretty much mandatory for me to enjoy riding. Eventually I ended up on ESI Super Chunky on all my bikes. As an old climber/kayaker I have the baseline hand strength to tolerate the larger diameter grip that would tire out another biker. The padding is mint. And like others said, padded gloves are usually counterproductive. And tight cycling gloves are just restricting circulation. I'm currently on $20 Hestra Job Goat Drivers for colder days and FTP gloves for warm days.
Seriously, check out SQ Lab. They're the only bike company really doing hard research into ergonomics. It's a rabbit hole, and not all of it would be good for rad agent riding, but it's all worth considering.
At the end of the day, spending money on cockpit is WAAAAAAYYY more worth it than suspension or lightweight wheels. Paying a good fitter for a fitting session would be money well spent too.However many are in a shit ton.
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04-12-2021, 08:36 PM #38
I almost always wear an XL glove, and I use the Large FTP cycling gloves. They really have been mint for me. I'm on my 5th or 6th pair I think. And I do a ton of crashing and hand sweeping leaves and debris out of lines with them. Might even masturbate furiously in them, but usually the plasticy texture/pattern stuff on the palms is too scratchy.
However many are in a shit ton.
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04-12-2021, 09:45 PM #39
If your hand is numb from riding it feels like someone else is tugging it
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04-13-2021, 10:33 AM #40
To pile on to jm2e's comment, the FTP gloves size pretty large. I usually wear L and they were a bit long. I bought a pair of M for Ms Boissal who doesn't like them and I ended up making them my own.
The textured stuff is gone from the palm of mine and it's actually nicer without."Your wife being mad is temporary, but pow turns do not get unmade" - mallwalker the wise
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04-13-2021, 10:39 AM #41
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04-13-2021, 10:44 AM #42Registered User
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I broke my hand from jumping and not landing. Got the Ergon 3 grips to help with support and wrist pain and they have been great. Small adjustments to the angle of the grips made a big difference for me. My hand is healed and they are staying on the bike. I also use FTP gloves and am happy with them.
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04-13-2021, 11:00 AM #43
yeah, this makes perfect sense. thanks for finding this for me - i always felt like my wrist was too bent, and i can definitely address this.
yep, looking into that now
All super helpful advice. I didn't know that a bike fitter was a thing, but it looks like there's a guy in SLC who does a 3 hour fit session for $285. i'm a little nervous that he would just say "you need a new stem, new bars, new saddle, etc" and $285 would turn into $600, but i'm also curious.
I can't do ibuprofen, but I can do the rest of that advice for sure. Thanks for your help here, it means a lot.
i mean normally i would agree with you but for a minute there i was struggling to make a ring with my thumb and forefinger. hard to choke the the chicken with a limp rag of a hand
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thanks everyone for the great advice, super helpful and awesome of you all
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04-13-2021, 11:34 AM #44
So much this (2nd paragraph). It's endless. I have a bad back, and it's a constant struggle with core strength. During ski season, quad strength can help make up for it, although that means I can get tired easily. Mountain biking? No way around it. Guess I'll go jump on and off my porch and do some pushups.
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04-13-2021, 12:01 PM #45
Found out the hard way this winter that over-reliance on quads to balance out a weak core eventually fails. The PT straight up mocked me as the standard skier with meaty thighs and a core made of marshmallow and cheese. When she found out that I also had lingering back issues from an old ski accident she was in disbelief about how little I had done to turn my core to steel.
75% of my knee rehab was about core strength and 20% about my extremely weak glutes (thanks skiing and biking). The remaining 5% was for stuff that was already strong but I still felt weak cause it came at the end of the session when I was fully cooked.
I'm feeling better on the bike thanks to it, I'm having a much easier time weighting the front with confidence. Guess my core helps me not feel like I'm going to nose plant into my wheel."Your wife being mad is temporary, but pow turns do not get unmade" - mallwalker the wise
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04-13-2021, 12:07 PM #46
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04-13-2021, 12:12 PM #47
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04-13-2021, 12:51 PM #48Not a skibum
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Honestly 3 hr fit seems a bit excessive unless that's over a few sessions. I've never done it myself, but many friends have and found it worthwhile. You're almost certainly coming out with recommendation for something new like you noted, though you don't necessarily have to purchase it. Think you're starting in the right spot trying the ergons for a bit, make sure your controls are at the angle that gets your wrist angle right, which also may include playing with the saddle angle, height, and/or setback on the rails. Don't change too many things at once though IMO.
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04-14-2021, 02:39 PM #49Registered User
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Yeah, $285 for a 3 hour fitting seems outrageous. I've taken a few classes from a coach in the Bay Area (with corresponding prices), and he does a complete bike setup as an addon for I want to say $50, and it takes about 30-45 min depending how off it was. (Suspension, tire pressures, saddle height/pitch, bar height / width / roll, brake & shifter angle and distance)
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04-15-2021, 07:22 AM #50Registered User
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That price is actually on the low side for a good fitter. Having done it for ~20 years I still have a hard time finding the value in it for a mtb but when you need to dial in a particular part of your fit it is worth it to work with someone who knows what they're looking at.
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