Wildfire 2021

[LongShortLong]

It only sorta works as you describe. FS prefers 12s (but will sometimes asign 24 hour crews). That's 12 hours on the line, so if the drive is 2 hours, that's a 16 hour shift.

I take this to mean the crews bugout for the fire line, and it's only some of the leadership that sticks around for the morning meeting. Seeing Caldor in particular where many divisions had day crews assigned with nothing to do because the fire was too fierce, and no night crews assigned left me thinking the whole operation was badly fubared. Good to hear the front line folks are doing front line work while the managers adapt the strategy.

LSL obviously hasn’t been involved with a Cal Fire led show 😂

I've been involved with no fire, unless you count reporting them, or that one time a firefighter let me hold the hose (and get pushed around by it, spraying high pressure water s no joke). On the big split fires, I get the impression CalFire is more effective. It's usually the USFS half of the fire that gets help from CalFire's half. And the fires CalFire runs seem to go out faster.

And don't get me wrong - I understand large orgs are messy, and a temporary org such as a fire yet messier. I'm happy we seem to have a bunch of experienced folks trying to make it all work. I also appreciate the relentless optimism against a wild opponent that continually sets back plans. It's gotta be hard coming to the media meeting day after day when the fire kicked your butt, upending what you said yesterday, yet presenting a positive plan for tomorrow.

[PowderHorse]

I'm so heartbroken for Superior and Louisville. I've seen many Marshallfire hashtags on Twitter/Instagram looking for lost pets.

Lots of lives and childhoods were forever changed yesterday.

This. I have at least 2 friends whose homes are a total loss. Waiting to hear from another friend who is likely dealing with an evacuated horse. Where will everyone go? Contractors are beyond booked out.

We had no power for 24 hours on Shanahan Ridge but nothing in comparison to what has happened just down the road. 30k people evacuated and thousands without homes. Temps tonight will be single digits and school is supposed to start next week. Kids are a mess.

It's been so dry and this was such an insane wind event, even for front range standards of wind.

We've had about 6"+ of snow but it's really low moisture and warming up again in a few days. Photo from 7 pm last night, looking NE towards NW Louisville.

Big hugs for those who have been through this kind of trauma.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[hutash]

While this is a truly traumatic experience for those affected, I just want to say this to shall pass. It is going to be long and at time tough battle, but things will get better. We are four years out now from the devastation of the Thomas fire, and we and most of my neighbors have returned to some semblance of "normal" life. I do tend to get a bit tense these days when I see smoke, no doubt a little PTSD, but it passes.

Good luck to mags affected by this fire.

[bodywhomper]

Vibes to those affected by the recent devastation in CO. Loosing a home is rough. The fires and rebuilding will drastically change the local housing and rental markets. It will also affect the local labor and building materials markets.

For those directly affected or know somebody directly affected, if the government is sponsoring private property debris removal and hazard tree removal, do it. In CA, there have been property owners that did not want the government doing that work on their properties, and it turns into a huge mess, especially the debris removal.

I helped with the temporary housing developments that were built after the camp fire in paradise. It came too late, and many that were in need eventually moved far away. The # of units built ended up being far less than initially thought necessary because people moved on.

[old goat]

A California judge has blocked a planned resort in Lake County, one of the most fire prone areas of the state (part of the resort property burned in 2020), saying that the guests and workers at the large development would overwhelm roads and endanger other county residents in the event of an evacuation.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/californ...ainstage_card2

[altasnob]

Those who arrive first always build the biggest fence.

It is interesting we are seeing threat of natural disasters stopping development. There was a similar resort planned near the gate to Rainier National Park that was halted mainly because it sat in a lahar zone (same logic; increased people makes evacuation more difficult).

[old goat]

Those who arrive first always build the biggest fence.

It is interesting we are seeing threat of natural disasters stopping development. There was a similar resort planned near the gate to Rainier National Park that was halted mainly because it sat in a lahar zone (same logic; increased people makes evacuation more difficult).

You know nothing about Lake County and its history of wildfires. It is a mostly poor, sparsely populated rural county that has had wildfires pretty much every year in the last decade. It has rugged hilly terrain and narrow winding roads. This is hardly a case of the rich trying the keep the riff-raff out.. More about the riff raff trying to keep the rich from killing them.

Here's a quote from one of the developers: “I completely understand and respect the concerns about fire safety,” he said at the time. “If we weren’t confident in our ability to defend and prevent fires, or major wildfire events, we as business people wouldn’t be committing (to) this kind of investment.”
Talk about delusional.

[PB]

Delusional? Possibly
Disingenuous? Definitely

[old goat]

Delusional? Possibly
Disingenuous? Definitely

Too nice a word. How about lying? And the reason the fucker isn't worried about fire is that they figure they can sell all the units to someone else before they burn down.

I'm reminded that the Village at Palisades' evacuation plan is shelter in place. Presumably in the indoor water park. (Maybe that's why they want to build the water park.)

[bodywhomper]

I’ve only skimmed that article and haven’t read the court decision, but my initial thought is that the article does not accurately describe how CEQA works. The EIR needs to describe the effects and potential mitigation. If the EIR adequately describes the inadequacies of evacuation routes and what that would mean when evacuation is necessary, then it’s likely adequate for compliance with CEQA. Maybe I’m missing something. But I suspect the EIR misaddressed the effects or adequacy of evacuation. Or the county judge misunderstands CEQA.

If evacuation planning is not adequate, that’s not a CEQA compliance problem, that’s a bigger County and political problem.

[evdog]

A California judge has blocked a planned resort in Lake County, one of the most fire prone areas of the state (part of the resort property burned in 2020), saying that the guests and workers at the large development would overwhelm roads and endanger other county residents in the event of an evacuation.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/californ...ainstage_card2

Developers have been trying to build on an area in East County San Diego for decades with a cycle of approval, lawsuits, bankruptcy, and land sale. Inadequate fire evacuation routes was the focus when the last developer was sued. They were planning 3,500 homes with only two roads in/out. Nearby freeways already get overwhelmed by daily rush hour traffic, nevermind having all the adjacent communities trying to evacuate at once. Now add 3,500 more homes. Residents of this new community would be gridlocked in place, they'd never make it out. For reference the 2002 the Cedar fire burned over this entire area from Hwy 67 to I-15 in about 20 minutes. That's a distance of 6-8 miles. A new developer had their plans approved by city hall last fall and are now awaiting incoming lawsuits which will again focus on fire evac. There really aren't many access options as the property is surrounded by County park to the north, Marine corps base to the west, and private property with canyons/ridgelines to the east and south.

[bodywhomper]

I’ve been to a subdivision in NE San Diego county that was just east of hwy 15. Like your description, minimal ingress and egress. Chaparral and specifically manzanita densely growing right next to amd adjacent to homes with narrow manzanita-lined long driveways. I was there with Calfire to discuss fuels reduction. The calfire guys were reallybuncomfortable with the condition of the area. It was a fucking sketchy place. Wealthy subdivision, too.

[evdog]

The interesting thing is whatever area that is probably burned in the Cedar fire or 2007 Witch fire, so they have a good idea of how fast fire can move there.

[bodywhomper]

The interesting thing is whatever area that is probably burned in the Cedar fire or 2007 Witch fire, so they have a good idea of how fast fire can move there.

It was after the cedar fire. I'd have to find the project files and look at the burn map for the witch fire.

[old goat]

I expect that at some point California will require new developments in high fire risk zones to be hardened to the extent that people can shelter in place. I don't know the extent to which this is technically possible and I would think such a community would be very expensive to build and pretty unappealing to look at--surrounded by a wide barren firebreak, minimal landscaping with no trees, all nonflammable building materials. Banks will demand it, insurers will demand it.

[Meathelmet]

I expect that at some point California will require new developments in high fire risk zones to be hardened to the extent that people can shelter in place. I don't know the extent to which this is technically possible and I would think such a community would be very expensive to build and pretty unappealing to look at--surrounded by a wide barren firebreak, minimal landscaping with no trees, all nonflammable building materials. Banks will demand it, insurers will demand it.

[PB]

Underground, I tell ya; troglodytes rule!

[old goat]

Nope. Need fine screens over the gun ports to keep the embers out.

[evdog]

It was after the cedar fire. I'd have to find the project files and look at the burn map for the witch fire.

Yeah the Witch fire mainly burned north of the Cedar fire footprint in a lot of semi-rural areas. Plenty of expensive neighborhoods (and not so expensive) fall within that burn area.

[evdog]

I expect that at some point California will require new developments in high fire risk zones to be hardened to the extent that people can shelter in place. I don't know the extent to which this is technically possible and I would think such a community would be very expensive to build and pretty unappealing to look at--surrounded by a wide barren firebreak, minimal landscaping with no trees, all nonflammable building materials. Banks will demand it, insurers will demand it.

It would be nice if they just made new developments in those areas so expensive that they couldn't be built. Focus on building lots of multi-family near transit corridors within existing urban areas instead. Wide barren fire breaks will not happen in Socal... groups like the Chapparal Institute and Centers for Biological Diversity will have a field day with lawsuits over those since we have a lot of listed species who live in what would become those fire breaks.