Wildfire 2021

[old goat]

Increasingly in the West between heat, smoke, worry about fire, traffic, and assholes the summer is like winter in Chicago--the season to get through. OK--maybe it's not that bad, at least not yet--summer here is still pretty great, but it's not without its downsides.

[Meadow Skipper]

Well, I suppose this is a good a place as any for this. A guy I helped train in his rookie year in AK just retired (I feel old now) and was interviewed in this article/podcast. His memories and pictures of fire in AK were full-on nostalgia for me.
https://www.blm.gov/blog/2021-07-14/...ighters-career

[TBS]

Question for you “seasoned veterans”
What do you want to see for reasonable overnight humidity recovery?
Our pattern is currently a min of 20% late afternoon, rising to 40% by sundown and 65-70% by dawn.
Good enough? Too little?

[Meadow Skipper]

^ That’s fairly okay, but wind, temperature, and existent fuel moistures and structures (especially 10-hour and 1000-hour) are also factors. What you’re describing isn’t a reason to feel safe. Caveat - I am not a fire behavior analyst/specialist (FBAN).

[TBS]

Thanks
Yea...I don't feel very safe

[bodywhomper]

Who does!!

Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

[Norseman]

pretty big chunk of north america lookin smokey this morn

[Conundrum]

pretty big chunk of north america lookin smokey this morn

You stoked you did the MFS a couple weeks ago and not now?

https://flyingresortranches.com/live-webcam/

[Norseman]

You stoked you did the MFS a couple weeks ago and not now?

https://flyingresortranches.com/live-webcam/

uhh yes. been thinking about that a lot. nailed the conditions

[snapt]

https://wildfiretoday.com/2021/07/14...in-early-july/


Don’t worry, everything is fine.

I wonder what percentage were planned Apprenticeship conversions that instead went to CALFire?

———————-

“The Forest Service’s California region had filled 3,820 of 4,620 planned permanent and temporary positions as of early July, agency spokesperson Regina Corbin wrote in an email to Stateline.
Thirty-one of California’s 44 hotshot crews are fully staffed, Corbin said.
Almost two-thirds of vacancies at the end of spring hiring were for senior firefighters on engine crews, the data reviewed by Stateline shows.
The agency sought to fill 781 vacant permanent positions in California during spring hiring this year, according to the data. But it ended the hiring period with 725 vacancies. That’s a net gain of just 56 employees.
In June 2015 the region’s leaders expected 96% of engines to be fully staffed, for instance. In June 2020, the share was 59%.
In a different article published the same day at Reuters, still another disturbing fact came to light about wildland firefighter vacancies:

20% of the federal government’s full time firefighting positions are currently vacant, according to Kelly Martin, president of the advocacy group Grassroots Wildland Firefighters.”

Like, I make $30 an hour base rate and $45 on OT with guaranteed 16's whether or not I chill in a hotel or actually work if I go on assignment. We have chief's that go out and make a killing at their hourly rates. Like, couldn't we save a fuck ton of money by paying kids $20 an hour plus and have better staffing and better service than paying cooperators shittons of money for shittier service? As a tax payer that's always driven me nuts, we can't pay our federal crews a living wage so we end up paying gobs more for cooperators to fill the gaps. Makes total sense, not.

[Meadow Skipper]

Like, I make $30 an hour base rate and $45 on OT with guaranteed 16's whether or not I chill in a hotel or actually work if I go on assignment. We have chief's that go out and make a killing at their hourly rates. Like, couldn't we save a fuck ton of money by paying kids $20 an hour plus and have better staffing and better service than paying cooperators shittons of money for shittier service? As a tax payer that's always driven me nuts, we can't pay our federal crews a living wage so we end up paying gobs more for cooperators to fill the gaps. Makes total sense, not.

I think about that when CalFire crews go to federal project fires.

[old_newguy]

I think about that when CalFire crews go to federal project fires.

I thought it was pretty sweet when we mob’d to San Bernardino from OR for a fire around Thanksgiving and they had us work 24 on, 24 off and have us hotels.

Not sure how that got past the bean counters.

[ill-advised strategy]

Question for you “seasoned veterans”
What do you want to see for reasonable overnight humidity recovery?
Our pattern is currently a min of 20% late afternoon, rising to 40% by sundown and 65-70% by dawn.
Good enough? Too little?

My take: I don’t know your area, if I were assigned to your area, I’d want to get briefed on that stuff by a local.

The whole process being that in any given scenario you’re accumulating weather observations and connecting fire behavior observations.

Your numbers seem normal for what I remember from lots of summers all over the interior west…but with these posts here of fires ripping overnight…I’d want to see the hourly weather obs from those places where fires aren’t laying down at night.

And MS caveats he’s not an FBAN…I’m so far below MS…so from me this is strictly “internet shit talk” level info, if you could even call it info.

[ill-advised strategy]

I think about that when CalFire crews go to federal project fires.

We used to look at those demanding, goofy-bright-yellow dress-uniform ass hoteled-up Calfire marshmallows with complete disdain.
But that was probably like all the other dumbass macho bullshit we would’ve been better off without. There’s probably a middle ground there somewhere…. Like the opm just classifying wildland firefighters as firefighters and using those established pay and benefits standards.

[el hefe]

BC is lit up like a Xmas tree: https://governmentofbc.maps.arcgis.c...2ee385abe2a41b

Depressing.

[TBS]

^^^The Kamloops area is getting hammered. Guessing fuels are as dry as east side of Oregon.

The 5500 acre fire 10 miles north of here is showing some signs of containment. Got outside in AM for MTB ride for first time in three days and the air didn’t taste like smoke.

Takeaways from our virtual briefing:
- Footprint hasn’t grown in two days and no buildings have been damaged.
- except for one really rugged canyon, they have fire lines and hose around the perimeter
- it’s still bone dry and winds are picking up in next few days
- some people ask really stupid questions
“What do you mean by ‘footprint’?”

“What will the air quality be like in Sisters this weekend?” To which another viewer replied “it’ll be Smokey all summer - welcome to Central Oregon”

“Who will protect our homes from looters while we are evacuated?” Lady, the area is being patrolled and access is blocked.

“Can you give us more frequent updates than the daily briefing and the text alerts?” How often do you want to know that there’s nothing new to report?

[ntblanks]

BC is lit up like a Xmas tree: https://governmentofbc.maps.arcgis.c...2ee385abe2a41b

Depressing.

250+/- AQI between Armstrong and Vernon. brutal.

[old_newguy]

^^^The Kamloops area is getting hammered. Guessing fuels are as dry as east side of Oregon.

The 5500 acre fire 10 miles north of here is showing some signs of containment. Got outside in AM for MTB ride for first time in three days and the air didn’t taste like smoke.

Takeaways from our virtual briefing:
- Footprint hasn’t grown in two days and no buildings have been damaged.
- except for one really rugged canyon, they have fire lines and hose around the perimeter
- it’s still bone dry and winds are picking up in next few days
- some people ask really stupid questions
“What do you mean by ‘footprint’?”

“What will the air quality be like in Sisters this weekend?” To which another viewer replied “it’ll be Smokey all summer - welcome to Central Oregon”

“Who will protect our homes from looters while we are evacuated?” Lady, the area is being patrolled and access is blocked.

“Can you give us more frequent updates than the daily briefing and the text alerts?” How often do you want to know that there’s nothing new to report?

I’m guessing they had dozer line around 90% of that fire the first night. There is a fire that starts just a little farther north every year that they just name with the location plus the year. Blast a dozer line around it my midnight and start mopup the next morning.

Lots of central Oregon is good dozer ground and fires get caught quickly once the wind stops blowing or fire behavior moderates. There are exceptions of course.

[TBS]

Yup, it’s fairly flat out there (except for Whychus Creek Canyon) and a lot of gravel/dirt roads can double as dozer line.
That said, fire grew from 500 acres Sunday evening to 5500 on Tuesday, so I doubt they had that much line in that quickly.

As you know Oregon has a program under the state’s Conflagration Act. Fire departments in unaffected areas will second engine crews to assist in structure protection in hot spots. Expenses for the seconded teams are picked up by the state. IIRC, there’s crews from eight different counties (including two from WA) assisting here. Big thanks to those peeps.

[Meadow Skipper]

Bootleg fire kicking asses and taking names. “Okay everyone, out of the pool!”
Firefighters pulled off sections of the Bootleg Fire

[old_newguy]

Yup, it’s fairly flat out there (except for Whychus Creek Canyon) and a lot of gravel/dirt roads can double as dozer line.
That said, fire grew from 500 acres Sunday evening to 5500 on Tuesday, so I doubt they had that much line in that quickly.

As you know Oregon has a program under the state’s Conflagration Act. Fire departments in unaffected areas will second engine crews to assist in structure protection in hot spots. Expenses for the seconded teams are picked up by the state. IIRC, there’s crews from eight different counties (including two from WA) assisting here. Big thanks to those peeps.

Yeah, Whychus Canyon was typically the problem.

I guess I was wrong on the timing there.

On the plus side, just about everything south of 20 west of sisters has burned in the last 10 years so you are probably okay that direction.

[KQ]

Umatilla National Forest is closed
(News release from the Forest Service)

With persistent extreme hot and dry conditions, active large wildfires, limited firefighting resources and concern for public safety, forest officials have temporarily closed the entirety of the Umatilla National Forest effective immediately.

The objective of the closure is to proactively protect public and firefighter safety as the Forest continues to actively suppress large wildfires on the Forest, while also responding to new smoke reports. Hot and dry conditions have challenged firefighters in suppression efforts battling the Lick Creek and Green Ridge Fires on the Pomeroy Ranger District. Additionally, on July 15 the Elbow Creek Fire emerged on the Walla Walla Ranger District, rapidly growing and threatening nearby communities. Overnight, humidity levels have remained extremely low, allowing fires to spread actively. These conditions have created an unprecedented potential for extreme fire spread and intensity. With three active large wildfires on the Umatilla National Forest, compounded by multiple active large wildfires burning across the region, firefighting resources are stretched. Forest officials have implemented the closure for public and firefighter safety.

A full Forest closure means that the public is prohibited from entering any part of Umatilla National Forest at any time, including National Forest lands, roads, trails and recreational facilities. Access on county, state or federal roadways will still be open.

Forest Service personnel will attempt to reach as many people as possible to begin vacating campsites and informing individuals who are camping in the Forest currently. The public should cancel any plans for visiting the Umatilla National Forest for the next several weeks. This is a temporary closure and the Forest will continually assess conditions and lift the closure once the unprecedented conditions moderate.

Violating closures and fire restrictions is a violation that carries a mandatory appearance in federal court, punishable as a Class B misdemeanor with a fine of up to $5,000 for an individual or $10,000 for an organization, or up to six months in prison, or both.

A detailed map and description of the closure area is available on the Forest website and at any Forest office. Closure barriers and signs will be posted on the ground.

[old_newguy]

Umatilla National Forest is closed
(News release from the Forest Service)

With persistent extreme hot and dry conditions, active large wildfires, limited firefighting resources and concern for public safety, forest officials have temporarily closed the entirety of the Umatilla National Forest effective immediately.

The objective of the closure is to proactively protect public and firefighter safety as the Forest continues to actively suppress large wildfires on the Forest, while also responding to new smoke reports. Hot and dry conditions have challenged firefighters in suppression efforts battling the Lick Creek and Green Ridge Fires on the Pomeroy Ranger District. Additionally, on July 15 the Elbow Creek Fire emerged on the Walla Walla Ranger District, rapidly growing and threatening nearby communities. Overnight, humidity levels have remained extremely low, allowing fires to spread actively. These conditions have created an unprecedented potential for extreme fire spread and intensity. With three active large wildfires on the Umatilla National Forest, compounded by multiple active large wildfires burning across the region, firefighting resources are stretched. Forest officials have implemented the closure for public and firefighter safety.

A full Forest closure means that the public is prohibited from entering any part of Umatilla National Forest at any time, including National Forest lands, roads, trails and recreational facilities. Access on county, state or federal roadways will still be open.

Forest Service personnel will attempt to reach as many people as possible to begin vacating campsites and informing individuals who are camping in the Forest currently. The public should cancel any plans for visiting the Umatilla National Forest for the next several weeks. This is a temporary closure and the Forest will continually assess conditions and lift the closure once the unprecedented conditions moderate.

Violating closures and fire restrictions is a violation that carries a mandatory appearance in federal court, punishable as a Class B misdemeanor with a fine of up to $5,000 for an individual or $10,000 for an organization, or up to six months in prison, or both.

A detailed map and description of the closure area is available on the Forest website and at any Forest office. Closure barriers and signs will be posted on the ground.

Wow, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a full forest closure in my 40 years in the PNW.

[Conundrum]

Wow, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a full forest closure in my 40 years in the PNW.

I haven't either.

[Hopeless Sinner]

I saw the first bellyaching by a fat old hag on CNN about the firefighters doing it wrong. Where any of you around when USFS fire crews were hated?