Quiver Killer Mounting

[ASmileyFace]

Tapping with a drill press? Considering how much I "feel" the tap working I really doubt that I'd want to use a drill press for that part of the process.

[stealurface831]

Tapping with a drill press? Considering how much I "feel" the tap working I really doubt that I'd want to use a drill press for that part of the process.

I should clarify, I rotate the spindle and provide downward pressure by hand. The drill press isn’t actually on and I don’t pull down on the handle. Simply using it as an alignment tool. You still get all the feel of resistance as if you were tapping by hand.


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[rfconroy]

Fucking top notch writeup Gunder!

[QUOTE=galibier_numero_un;6406700 I'm not sure how @rfconroy came up with his results. I don't have any Pivots lying around to re-check my Pivot drawing.

This drawing is for last year's Raider-12. I just completed and verified the mount. It's all the more reason you shouldn't trust any of us

... Thom[/QUOTE]


I did mine based on the paper templates available, then threw them into SolidWorks to make some drill jigs with my 3D printer. While I have printed both jigs, I've only used the Pivot Jig for myself.... and there was some question on the pin line on the ATK template.

[Gunder]

Tapping with a drill press? Considering how much I "feel" the tap working I really doubt that I'd want to use a drill press for that part of the process.

With ski jigs, there is no need to use a drill press, but without one I most certainly would, or in my case my Bridgeport mill.

Most people dont know this, but that little dimple in the end of your tap, and also in the end of most tap handles actually has a purpose.


It is actually designed to work with a spring loaded Tap Center that gets held by the chuck in your drill press or mill.


That ensures that everything is perfectly aligned with the hole. I.E. drill first, then without moving anything install the tap center and then run the tap in with the machine off. I this case, I am taping the holes for a home made boot press.


With this setup, I prefer to use a different style tap wrench. I really like the Starrett 91B for most taps. Once again, it will actually firmly hold the tap, unlike the garbage from the local hardware store.


If I am doing a lot of holes in metal... for a camera bracket, etc. I then use my Procunier power tapping head in my mill, but thats a whole different ball of wax, and they are expensive! https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09470113

[Toddball]

I should clarify, I rotate the spindle and provide downward pressure by hand. The drill press isn’t actually on and I don’t pull down on the handle. Simply using it as an alignment tool. You still get all the feel of resistance as if you were tapping by hand.

I also do this, and it works really well. Using a tap center and tap handle with the press is a lot nicer on your hands, though.

[eSock]

I did mine based on the paper templates available, then threw them into SolidWorks to make some drill jigs with my 3D printer. While I have printed both jigs, I've only used the Pivot Jig for myself.... and there was some question on the pin line on the ATK template.

So in summary, ask a shop (but not the one I went to originally)?

[galibier_numero_un]

So in summary, ask a shop (but not the one I went to originally)?

I don't know how you qualify a shop to do insert mounts, apart from having had first hand experience with the shop.

In several threads on the topic, the majority opinion was that if they charge you something like $50 or $60, they're either incompetent (they don't know how much labor is involved), they pay their shop rat peanuts (and he's clueless), or the ski shop is a front for a drug cartel, and the money is irrelevant.

Fucking top notch writeup Gunder!

I did mine based on the paper templates available, then threw them into SolidWorks to make some drill jigs with my 3D printer. While I have printed both jigs, I've only used the Pivot Jig for myself.... and there was some question on the pin line on the ATK template.

Nice! When I grow up, I want to afford Solidworks ;-)

I fiddled with the pin line, changed it, and changed it back again as I went through a series of test mounts. The pin line is indeed slightly off-center from the midpoint of the front and back set of toe holes.

There are 2 or 3 Raider templates on ATK's site. The wide mount Raiders from last year have a 45 mm wide x 44 mm long toe hole layout. As far as I know, this layout (last year's Raider 12/14) is used by the Voyager, and Moment is carrying that wide mount forward into this year.

For those who are unaware, the story about the hole spacing change for this year's ATK branded Raider 12/14 is in the main ATK thread. It's all about crazy patents in Europe.

... Thom

[rfconroy]

Nice! When I grow up, I want to afford Solidworks ;-)

Work's copy...

eSock - assuming you're in Seattle, shoot me a PM, I'll get you squared away with either descent shops or some help to do it yourself.

[ASmileyFace]

I should clarify, I rotate the spindle and provide downward pressure by hand. The drill press isn’t actually on and I don’t pull down on the handle. Simply using it as an alignment tool. You still get all the feel of resistance as if you were tapping by hand.


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Oh duh. That makes more sense.

A lot of wonderful info in this thread. Thanks to Gundar in particular and of course Thom.

[galibier_numero_un]

Oh duh. That makes more sense.

A lot of wonderful info in this thread. Thanks to Gundar in particular and of course Thom.

Gunder is my new hero ;-)

[Westcoaster]

Gunder is my new hero ;-)

@gundar looks like BF (SVST) is stocking reduced diameter screws on their site. Ordered a bunch last week and they look good.

[Gunder]

@gunder looks like BF (SVST) is stocking reduced diameter screws on their site. Ordered a bunch last week and they look good.

All I am seeing is the low head and flat head which I am fully stocked on, not the small heads.... Got a direct link?

Here is an image to make sure there is no confusion. The flat head is on the left, the Low-head is in the center, and the small head is on the right... Those are the ones that have been discontinued. Which is too bad as quite a few bindings used them.

[stealurface831]

How does a non-shop fellow order from SVST?

[Gunder]

How does a non-shop fellow order from SVST?

Open a shop, or in my case do enough wholesale business with them that they are ok with it. Almost any ski shop could do a special order for you. The question is if they actually want to as that probably takes away from their service income.

[Toddball]

All I am seeing is the low head and flat head which I am fully stocked on, not the small heads.... Got a direct link?

BF's small-heads are just flat-heads with the heads ground down to 8mm diameter. If you go to any of the flat-head products (e.g. here: https://www.bindingfreedom.com/pozi-...vidual-screws/) you can select reduced head size in the drop-down menu.

[galibier_numero_un]

BF's small-heads are just flat-heads with the heads ground down to 8mm diameter. If you go to any of the flat-head products (e.g. here: https://www.bindingfreedom.com/pozi-...vidual-screws/) you can select reduced head size in the drop-down menu.

For one of my ATK mounts (Raider-12s) which have counterbored heel holes, I went with stainless steel socket head screws from McMaster-Carr (M5 x .8 thread). I had some 12mms and ground them down to 9mm (so, a 10mm would be easier to work with).

If you're grinding down screws to get a perfect length match, be sure to pick up some M5 x .8 nuts to help you clean up the thread. Hint: thread the nut onto the bolt before cutting/grinding. Then, file off the rough edges and unscrew the nut to clean the end. I also file a light chamfer (bevel) on the end of the screw.

In an earlier mount, also with counterbored heels (ATK RT-10 which resembles the Crest), I ground down pan head screws to fit. This was a real chore. The socket heads were much easier. https://www.mcmaster.com/90751A121/

... Thom

[Gunder]

BF's small-heads are just flat-heads with the heads ground down to 8mm diameter. If you go to any of the flat-head products (e.g. here: https://www.bindingfreedom.com/pozi-...vidual-screws/) you can select reduced head size in the drop-down menu.

Thanks, wouldn't have known they where there looking at their page. It's too bad SVST doesn't offer those now, as I never remember to order screws unless I am already on SVST's site ordering other supplies.

[HAB]

My preferred method for grinding down screw heads is to chuck them in a drill, then spin them over a pneumatic die grinder spinning opposite the drill. Goes pretty quick that way.

[rfconroy]

My preferred method for grinding down screw heads is to chuck them in a drill, then spin them over a pneumatic die grinder spinning opposite the drill. Goes pretty quick that way.

This man speaks the language of the gods

[Toddball]

My preferred method for grinding down screw heads is to chuck them in a drill, then spin them over a pneumatic die grinder spinning opposite the drill. Goes pretty quick that way.

My method for grinding down screw heads is to chuck them in a drill, then spin them over a flat file clamped to workbench. I ruined a file this way, and have not ground down screw heads since.

[Gunder]

My preferred method for grinding down screw heads is to chuck them in a drill, then spin them over a pneumatic die grinder spinning opposite the drill. Goes pretty quick that way.

Ah yess. I think the only better way would be to do it in my Monarch 10EE, but that’s in the middle of a full tear down and rebuild. That being said grinding screws is one of those things that my time is better spent elsewhere. I’d much rather pay $100 for a full set of the correct screws in the first place to have on hand.

It’s also worth noting for others that your typical Chinesium Stainless steal (Btw that’s not meant to be in racist in any way, just trying to point out that none of the import hardware is made of a quality grade of raw materials) flat head (or any for that matter) screws from the local hardware store are quite soft and weak. You are much better off ordering a better grade of quality machine screws from McMastercarr. Unfortunately that can actually be said about most stuff at the local hardware store these days.

[Toddball]

BF's small-heads are just flat-heads with the heads ground down to 8mm diameter. If you go to any of the flat-head products (e.g. here: https://www.bindingfreedom.com/pozi-...vidual-screws/) you can select reduced head size in the drop-down menu.

I actually got a bag of 25 of these today (i.e. 10mm flat-heads with head diameter reduced to 8mm) and the grind is a little strange. All the screw heads are ground at an angle, so the widest part of the screw head is right at the flange (?) that contacts the ski binding. Not a whole lot of material around the Pozi interface, and some of the heads are slightly out of round, like they wobbled in the grinding fixture. Beginning to suspect this was a cordless drill + belt sander job (NTTAWWT...maybe).

[Gunder]

I actually got a bag of 25 of these today (i.e. 10mm flat-heads with head diameter reduced to 8mm) and the grind is a little strange. All the screw heads are ground at an angle, so the widest part of the screw head is right at the flange (?) that contacts the ski binding. Not a whole lot of material around the Pozi interface, and some of the heads are slightly out of round, like they wobbled in the grinding fixture. Beginning to suspect this was a cordless drill + belt sander job (NTTAWWT...maybe).

WTF! Those are completely ground with the bevel going the wrong way making them completely useless. Not to mention the obvious shit quality of the grind itself. I’m now quite concerned about the order I just placed when you compare those to the proper ones I posted above. Are those from Binding Freedom?

[HAB]

Ah yess. I think the only better way would be to do it in my Monarch 10EE, but that’s in the middle of a full tear down and rebuild. That being said grinding screws is one of those things that my time is better spent elsewhere. I’d much rather pay $100 for a full set of the correct screws in the first place to have on hand.

It’s also worth noting for others that your typical Chinesium Stainless steal (Btw that’s not meant to be in racist in any way, just trying to point out that none of the import hardware is made of a quality grade of raw materials) flat head (or any for that matter) screws from the local hardware store are quite soft and weak. You are much better off ordering a better grade of quality machine screws from McMastercarr. Unfortunately that can actually be said about most stuff at the local hardware store these days.

Yeah, regrettably I don't have easy access to a lathe anymore. On the plus side, I can do the die grinder in my shop while drinking a beer.

[Westcoaster]

All I am seeing is the low head and flat head which I am fully stocked on, not the small heads.... Got a direct link?

Here is an image to make sure there is no confusion. The flat head is on the left, the Low-head is in the center, and the small head is on the right... Those are the ones that have been discontinued. Which is too bad as quite a few bindings used them.

Oh duh I thought you were referring to reduced diameter flat head for some reason. I see your point.

Wrt the quality, I don't really see the issue. They're not perfect but the bearing face is still the original chamfer. I'ma run em till they break.