Quiver Killer Mounting

[Gunder]

They're not perfect but the bearing face is still the original chamfer. I'ma run em till they break.

Thats the issue. That bearing surface angle is actually very important. Look closely at the pic I posted the small head screws have a much steeper angle then the flat heads. The wrong angle, will cause the plastic of the binding's screw holes to creep and in time the binding will pull off of the ski with the screws still attached..... I learned that the hard way when the inserts first came to market... its not pretty when it fails! Especially when you are in an exotic location half way around the world without any way to get proper replacements.

[Pinned]

WTF! Those are completely ground with the bevel going the wrong way making them completely useless. Not to mention the obvious shit quality of the grind itself. I’m now quite concerned about the order I just placed when you compare those to the proper ones I posted above. Are those from Binding Freedom?

Just FWIW, I got reduced diameter head screws from Binding Freedom last season since my bindings called for it and they didn't look at all like that. They were well ground and didn't have any reverse bevel like that.

[Toddball]

WTF! Those are completely ground with the bevel going the wrong way making them completely useless. Not to mention the obvious shit quality of the grind itself. I’m now quite concerned about the order I just placed when you compare those to the proper ones I posted above. Are those from Binding Freedom?

Yeah...guess I should have waited to get this order in before recommending BF. But as Pinned says above:

Just FWIW, I got reduced diameter head screws from Binding Freedom last season since my bindings called for it and they didn't look at all like that. They were well ground and didn't have any reverse bevel like that.

I have ordered reduced diameter heads from Binding Freedom several times in the past and they looked great. This is the first time I have seen the reduced head diameter option in the ordering drop-down menu (rather than just asking for it in the order comments), and the first time the screws have looked this weird.

[Spyderjon]

I used to grind down the heads on inserts screws (by spinning 'em in a drill chuck & contra rotating them against my grinding wheel) but I occasionally found that the heat annealed the heads and my customers had durability issue with the 'driver interface. For the last few years I've been turning them down on my lathe - I turned a little fixture for the machine screw to screw. I sell/mount loads of Shifts and ATK's so it's mainly Shift toe stud flat head screws and Raider/Crest heel pan head screws.

[Pinned]

I need to order from BF soon, I'm just waiting for a few things to come back into stock. I need reduced diameter heads again so I'll report back on what I get.

[Westcoaster]

Thats the issue. That bearing surface angle is actually very important. Look closely at the pic I posted the small head screws have a much steeper angle then the flat heads. The wrong angle, will cause the plastic of the binding's screw holes to creep and in time the binding will pull off of the ski with the screws still attached..... I learned that the hard way when the inserts first came to market... its not pretty when it fails! Especially when you are in an exotic location half way around the world without any way to get proper replacements.

Ah i see, the countersink angle. Do we know what the actual angle is for the stock fasteners?

[Spyderjon]

Ah i see, the countersink angle. Do we know what the actual angle is for the stock fasteners?

M5 flathead spec has a 45 degree countersink.

[Gunder]

M5 flathead spec has a 45 degree countersink.

That is correct for normal machine screws , but not for these.

I just measured (well as accurately as I could holding the screws up to my countersinks). A standard alpine screw is 82 degree (that’s normal for SAE hardware).


The flat head posidrive screws fit the inserts measured the same.

The small head version measured 90. (That’s a normal metric machine screw countersink)

[stealurface831]

looks like the SVST countersinks are out of stock. Gunder, what does a #11 measure in inches or mm? I found some 82 degree weldon-style options but don't know which diameter to get.

[Westcoaster]

That is correct for normal machine screws , but not for these.

I just measured (well as accurately as I could holding the screws up to my countersinks). A standard alpine screw is 82 degree (that’s normal for SAE hardware).


The flat head posidrive screws fit the inserts measured the same.

The small head version measured 90. (That’s a normal metric machine screw countersink)

So what do we think the atk countersink bore is? 82 or 90?

[HAB]

So what do we think the atk countersink bore is? 82 or 90?

Just checked the screws on a pair of Voyagers. They're 90°.

[stealurface831]

anybody got (4) 20mm low heads they would part with? i gotcha for a couple bucks and shipping.

[tgapp]

anybody got (4) 20mm low heads they would part with? i gotcha for a couple bucks and shipping.

I might

Can you send me a pic of the exact screw you're looking for? I can measure with calipers and confirm

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

[stealurface831]

I might

Can you send me a pic of the exact screw you're looking for? I can measure with calipers and confirm

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

looks bout like this:

and should have a 9mm head diameter and be 20mm in length.
thanks for checking.

[Gunder]

looks like the SVST countersinks are out of stock. Gunder, what does a #11 measure in inches or mm? I found some 82 degree weldon-style options but don't know which diameter to get.

Here is a link to the exact one from McMastercarr.

https://www.mcmaster.com/piloted-cou...-diameter~1-4/

[Westcoaster]

helio 350/atk trofeo toes dont have a counterbore, i ordered these from mcmaster, will see how proud the heads sit and report back:

https://www.mcmaster.com/91801A256/

update:

Gotta love 24 hour mcmaster. these 316 look great and actually almost fit in the heel track counterbores. Larger than the 200lt heel piece counterbores but wouldnt need much head diameter reduction for that either. Hell of a lot cleaner on the toes than the pozi fasteners supplied by BF. Wish the drive wasnt ph2 but for 2-4nm it should be fine.

Im sure the 18-8 or plated mcmaster options would be fine too, whatever the stock stuff is from atk its not stainless.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cLGfbiAd2w9v5dkw6

[Gunder]

helio 350/atk trofeo toes dont have a counterbore, i ordered these from mcmaster, will see how proud the heads sit and report back:

https://www.mcmaster.com/91801A256/

update:

Gotta love 24 hour mcmaster. these 316 look great and actually almost fit in the heel track counterbores. Larger than the 200lt heel piece counterbores but wouldnt need much head diameter reduction for that either. Hell of a lot cleaner on the toes than the pozi fasteners supplied by BF. Wish the drive wasnt ph2 but for 2-4nm it should be fine.

Im sure the 18-8 or plated mcmaster options would be fine too, whatever the stock stuff is from atk its not stainless.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cLGfbiAd2w9v5dkw6

FYI, those screws in your pic that look like Phillips are not. That little dot indicates they are JIS. Just like the hash marks indicate the others are posidrive. You should use a JIS specific driver for them, as a standard Phillips will camout easily and most likely strip them.

[Westcoaster]

FYI, those screws in your pic that look like Phillips are not. That little dot indicates they are JIS. Just like the hash marks indicate the others are posidrive. You should use a JIS specific driver for them, as a standard Phillips will camout easily and most likely strip them.

I do agree the dot indicates JIS, but the spec sheet associated with the part number, and the packaging indicate phillips #2. The machining does look more like ph #2 to me than JIS but im not totally sure.

[Gunder]

FYI, those screws in your pic that look like Phillips are not. That little dot indicates they are JIS. Just like the hash marks indicate the others are posidrive. You should use a JIS specific driver for them, as a standard Phillips will camout easily and most likely strip them.

It’s really damn hard to tell the two apart visually other than the dimple.

Adding the dimple is an extra step (cost) in MFG. So I doubt they would include it on a non JIS screw. In fact I can’t think of a single time I have come across a screw with the wrong marking on the head. I’m sure it’s happened but that would be extremely rare.

[abraham]

You can ask McMaster about their supplier and most of the time they give you an answer from what I've heard. Could be worth it in this case. Messing up your screws when you need to tighten them or switch bindings on a trip would suck.

For PNW people, Tacoma screw is a good source of machine screws and will sell low counts if you call + pickup or just go into one of their stores. I think most screws on the site are sold in boxes of 100.

[rfconroy]

You can ask McMaster about their supplier and most of the time they give you an answer from what I've heard. Could be worth it in this case.

Yeah actually did that on a few consumer electronics products that I worked on. I've never had them not tell me who their supplier was when asked.

[abraham]

I feel like I've heard of one or two times but I'm not certain. I've never had an issue either, just hedging a little bit.

[Dee Hubbs]

FYI, those screws in your pic that look like Phillips are not. That little dot indicates they are JIS. Just like the hash marks indicate the others are posidrive. You should use a JIS specific driver for them, as a standard Phillips will camout easily and most likely strip them.

The JIS standard does not apply to, or certify screw drivers anymore. The old JIS standard has been replaced by DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1.
Fasteners are still being produced with the JIS spec, but tool manufactures are producing tools under the DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 to what ever spec they feel necessary for their application. Most reputable quality brands have designed their new drivers under the DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 to work correctly with a JIS or PH fastener. The standard has enough variance to produce the driver closer to old JIS standard or closer to the PH standard, or even (gasp) both.
I know it's a deep dive into the semantics of this, but a newly produced JIS screw driver does not technically exist. Some manufactures are listing their new tools as "conforms to previous JIS standard" but technically they can't call them JIS certified (as the JIS(standard) no longer certifies tools), and technically they are DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1 and still fit and work in a JIS fastener.

[jmills]

I haven’t mounted a binding let alone inserts and I love this thread. Thanks to all for sharing.

[galibier_numero_un]

I haven’t mounted a binding let alone inserts and I love this thread. Thanks to all for sharing.

Sometimes, watching morons like us from the sidelines is the most productive (and entertaining) option ;-)

Shit! Who knew that metric screws with an 82 degree countersink were even made?

... Thom