Billy Goat Tour 116 vs Hoji for PNW Touring

[GIJoePSA]

Looked around but couldn't find anything relevant comparing these. I've been using 180 R11s w/ shifts, but just way too short for me, liked the strong tail but felt like I was going to fall forward and wanted to move to a lighter binding for a more backcountry focused setup. Will primarily be used in snoqualmie pass. I have a lotus for Utah and super deep days, so looking for something that will handle 3"-10". I'm used to a more rearward mount directional ski, but wondering if the fully rockered hoji would be more useful in the trees, and if I should just get with the fucking times and learn to ski with a more centered stance. Was also looking at WNDR 110 Intentions

[kid-kapow]

They are pretty different skis where most people seem to opt for either Ravens or Renegades when getting 4FRNTs. Also, ON3P only introduced their new tour layup this winter, so hardly surprising that there isn't a lot of info on them.

I used to have a pair of 17-18 Hojis in 187, and currently own regular layup BGs and BG108tours - both 184s.

Hojis are fun, slarvy and easy to ski skis. They ski a fair bit shorter than their length would indicate. They have pretty long tails due to their centered mount point, which is fine in all but crusty snow conditions where they become a bit of a liability imho. Their weight + long back ski positioned them a bit weirdly in the quiver - not heavy enough to crush inbounds and too long tails for me to tour on, so ended up selling them.

BGs are great if you want a loose and stable directional ski that you can pivot effortlessly They can be skied with both a forward or more centered stance. I have not tried a BG in the new touring layup, but I freaking love my BG108tours - they are simply sensational soft snow touring skis. There's quite a bit of feedback on them in the ON3P thread.

So my advice is that if you are used to more directional skis and want a sensational soft snow ski - go BGtour or BG108tour if nimbleness is more worth then extra float.

[Neil Fiedler (Not Neil Armstrong)]

I tour on an old pair of HOJI and they're great. You can pivot/slarve in tight places. I mounted them a few CM back to match my EHP. I'm with you on the "I'm used to a more rearward mount directional ski" .
I can't say anything towards the Billy Goat, except I keep seeing people "love them" then sell them. I'm sure they have a place in PNW snow that has some gravity to it.

[dub2]

I have skied hojis, BGs, and steeple 102s, and agree with everything kid-kapow said. I eventually moved from hojis to the steeples as my main touring ski as I felt they were a bit quicker in tight spots, and I did not like the long hoji tail on kickturns. Hojis can definitely pivot well, but in my opinion RES skis are on a different level of quickness. I also felt like the hojis urged me to ski like Hoji, active and dynamic (watch a video of him ski), whereas the steeples and BGs are more comfortable with a variety of styles and stances . I feel like I can stay centered or drive the ski depending on the terrain and snow conditions. The ability to drive the ski allows them to feel more stable at speed as well.

[kid-kapow]

Hoji profile - notice the very long front rocker.


BGs profile (identical to C&D and BG108) - long nearly flat section underfoot with relatively deep rocker lines with considerable splay. ON3P's tips provides ample float.


mounting Hojis a bit further back might be a good option It will probably provide stellar deep snow float, without lessening their considerable slarviness. They are excellent skis imho, especially if you are a bit more dynamic / lighter on your feet. They do not hammer through stuff, but boosts off stuff instead. Hojis are a bit more engaging on edge, especially on harder surfaces , but still - they do not have a ton of sidecut / shape, so def aimed at softer snow too.

The BGs flex pattern is a fair bit more supportive thoughout the ski, especially in the front part of the ski. So the stiffer flex and the longer flat section underfoot makes for a stronger feeling ski. RES causes the skis to have a lot of float in the front ski, where the pin tails are increadibly easy to flick around. The deep front rocker, more traditional mount point and considerable splay gives them incredible float.

[Tailwind]

I think the better comparison is Billy Goat vs Renegade. The Hoji is a mellowed out Renegade with deeper rocker lines and tweaked shape. I am a directional skier and got along with the Renegade great as a touring setup. I want another pair for sure... only gripe was that they don’t come alive until you’re moving pretty quick.

[GIJoePSA]

After reading all this I'm thinking about getting a one of the current BG tours on sales or maybe a custom 50/50 BG setup and get rid of my lotus 124s

[rfconroy]

After reading all this I'm thinking about getting a one of the current BG tours on sales or maybe a custom 50/50 BG setup and get rid of my lotus 124s

Interesting you mention a 50/50 setup.

Feel like a bunch of my friends went that route over the past season or two with shifts coming on the market. Almost all of them have been pretty bummed on the compromises, and would rather have burlier setups for in bounds while having a slightly lighter setup for touring. The increased weight, design issues with snow buildup, and difficulties during transitions have made them rethink their choice of Shifts.

While on the other side of the Shift spectrum, I recently grabbed a pair of Tectons, and the elasticity in the toe and heel, combined with the fact that its almost 0.5 lbs lighter on each ski make me think its a better option. Been pretty impressed with ski performance of them as well, havent figured out how to use the risers easily though :|

Seeing as you're in Tacoma, Evo Seattle has demos of Intention 110s in both camber and rockered skis which may help you make some decisions...

[margotron]

Interesting you mention a 50/50 setup.

Feel like a bunch of my friends went that route over the past season or two with shifts coming on the market. Almost all of them have been pretty bummed on the compromises, and would rather have burlier setups for in bounds while having a slightly lighter setup for touring. The increased weight, design issues with snow buildup, and difficulties during transitions have made them rethink their choice of Shifts.

While on the other side of the Shift spectrum, I recently grabbed a pair of Tectons, and the elasticity in the toe and heel, combined with the fact that its almost 0.5 lbs lighter on each ski make me think its a better option. Been pretty impressed with ski performance of them as well, havent figured out how to use the risers easily though :|

Seeing as you're in Tacoma, Evo Seattle has demos of Intention 110s in both camber and rockered skis which may help you make some decisions...

i dont get tectons really. weight wise, they are closer to a Shift than to a 300g binder. Tectons are 650g. Shifts are 860. You can ski tectons inbounds, but it's not the same as a Shift.

[rfconroy]

i dont get tectons really. weight wise, they are closer to a Shift than to a 300g binder. Tectons are 650g. Shifts are 860. You can ski tectons inbounds, but it's not the same as a Shift.

Im on the other side of that fence, seems like shifts are a bit of a pain/finicky.

Different strokes for different folks?

[f=ma]

i dont get tectons really. weight wise, they are closer to a Shift than to a 300g binder. Tectons are 650g. Shifts are 860. You can ski tectons inbounds, but it's not the same as a Shift.

My personal experience: Tectons ski pretty comparable to the shifts, but they tour a million times better...

[Jongle]

Agreed Tectons ski pretty similar to Shifts, except with Tectons you don't get randomly ejected from your bindings every other turn.

[PeachesNCream]

Yeah and tectons don't randomly release your brakes while touring. Plus 200g is 200g.

[Reformed]

I recently grabbed a pair of Tectons... Been pretty impressed with ski performance of them as well, havent figured out how to use the risers easily though :|

Easiest way for me to activate the risers is to poke straight down at the centre of them with the tip of ski pole held vertically. The taper in the tip opens the riser enough to then keep pushing straight down with the pole until the riser is activated/flat. The high riser is easier than the lower one, but I very rarely use it, so the above technique is used mostly with the lower riser. The risers are easy to flick back into the non-activated position with a pole tip or basket.
I echo other's comments about ski performance and tourability vs the Shift. The Tecton certainly isn't a 300 gram binder on the way up, but it isn't anywhere near as cumbersome as the shift for touring and seems to ski very similarly. It has also proven to be quite reliable for most users. I wouldn't go out of my way to ski it inbounds day in day out, but I have skied mine hard inbounds quite a few days and somewhere around 100 days of touring with only minor/field solvable issues associated with icing in certain conditions. The majority of the time the bindings essentially disappear and do what they were designed to do.

[galibier_numero_un]

Agreed Tectons ski pretty similar to Shifts, except with Tectons you don't get randomly ejected from your bindings every other turn.

Can't speak to Shifts, but my Vipec Blacks are just fine. I recall @flowing alpy logging 100 day seasons on his Vipec/Rx rig.

I'd love to say I log that kind of mileage but I'd be lyin'.

I'm 165# and don't break stuff, so my choices in this 90/10 (inbounds/out) category would be CAST or Tecton.

The only reason for CAST would be for longevity than skiability, but maybe that's overkill for me, these days (abuse factor).

I've had one or two icing issues on changeovers with Vipec toes, but nothing significant.

More and more (100% touring), I'm leaning toward the 200-300g. class.

... Thom

[jrredho]

so my choices in this 90/10 (inbounds/out) category would be CAST or Tecton.
... Thom

If I were 90/10 on a setup, and had as many pairs of skis as I think you have and wanted to ski my AT boots full time, I'd go 100/0 and put Wardens on them. (This is not a put down! I live in a glass house.)

And get a proper BC setup.

cheers,
john

[galibier_numero_un]

If I were 90/10 on a setup, and had as many pairs of skis as I think you have and wanted to ski my AT boots full time, I'd go 100/0 and put Wardens on them. (This is not a put down! I live in a glass house.)

And get a proper BC setup.

cheers,
john

Yup, my only inbounds ski mount at the moment has Aaatack ATs.

That 10% isn't for 10% of the days, but rather for ducking out of the gates. I could always leave those skis home when there's a possibility of slipping out ;-)

I have a feeling that this is a decision I can defer for another year, as I might go a second year without buying a pass.

... Thom

[jrredho]

That 10% isn't for 10% of the days, but rather for ducking out of the gates

I never think of all the use cases.

cheers,
john

[HAB]

I never think of all the use cases.

cheers,
john

That's how 90/10 skis work for me too, and CAST is great for it. I have way lighter bindings on actual touring skis.

[eSock]

That's how 90/10 skis work for me too, and CAST is great for it. I have way lighter bindings on actual touring skis.

So you ride around the mountain w/ your CAST tech toes and skins in tow just in case?

[HAB]

So you ride around the mountain w/ your CAST tech toes and skins in tow just in case?

Most days, no. Just once in a while when conditions / people I'm skiing with / plan for the day makes it sound like a good idea.

[jacob_dbu]

Most days, no. Just once in a while when conditions / people I'm skiing with / plan for the day makes it sound like a good idea.

Does anyone actually do this sort of thing? I mean I feel like it depends heavily on the resort, but like...if I'm going on a tour half the days is gonna be gone. An extra 10 minutes to the car to swap out ski and bindings, get my bag, etc...

[galibier_numero_un]

So you ride around the mountain w/ your CAST tech toes and skins in tow just in case?

If you're ducking out of the gates, yer gonna have a pack, and beacon, shovel, probe, and skins, so an extra 250 grams for tech toes for your CASTS is no big deal.

Yeah, logistics are definitely resort-specific.

... Thom

[f=ma]

So you ride around the mountain w/ your CAST tech toes and skins in tow just in case?

If you're skiing your touring setup, always bring you skins with you. I've been stranded at a resort, wishing I had my skins, so I could just skin my way out.