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  1. #1
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    Lange XT3 Tour Pro - praise, gripes, hacks, and mods

    So I threatened to, and decided to just do it. Since there seemed to be enough chatter in a couple of other threads about it, I just went ahead and started a dedicated thread for the Lange XT3 Tour Pro boots... I've got 6 days in them (4 inbounds and 2 touring) and while they fit my foot freaking awesome I just don't love the way they ski. But I'm not convinced they can't be "fixed" so here's goddamned thread about the boot, how I feel about the boot (let's not call it a review per se), and a place to collect what maggots like, hate, and end up changing about it. So first, a couple of general info things that we know and have been confirmed here in other threads:

    Stated Flex: 130
    Stated Last: 99mm
    Stated Range of Motion: 53į
    Stated BLS: 303mm @ 26.5 / 313mm @ 27.5

    I'm gonna assume forward lean and ramp angle of 12į and 4į based on the other XT3 boots, though I haven't been able to confirm that anywhere.

    Alright, here's my thoughts on the boot, as well as some experiments I'm going to try out. This will be long, apologies in advance. Hoping other people will also post thoughts and ideas in here as well. To that end, I have actually read what I could about this boot on this forum, and thrown some quotes from others in for perspective. Here we go.

    I've worn very few boots in my short time as a skier, this is my third pair in 12 years. Black Diamond Factor 130 for the first 4-5 seasons, and I've been skiing in Scarpa Freedom SLs for the last 7-8 seasons. The BDs were awful in every way, but I didn't know it until they were stolen and I got the Scarpas. MUCH better fitting, flex, skiability, etc. I actually really like/love the Scarpas for not knowing any better, but my one gripe was that I could pretty easily get my heel to move. When I shoved my hoof in this Lange it felt way much more better in the heel, and more snug but not too tight in the forefoot despite being a couple mm narrower last. My feet: very flat but long arch, pronates like a MFer, ankles roll inward, low instep, fairly low volume, average width that kinda "walks wide" because of how much I pronate. Also I broke my right ankle pretty badly (fucking motocross) and had a couple surgeries which has left my right navicular poking pretty far inward, always a major hotspot. Maybe that info is helpful to this guy:

    Quote Originally Posted by altacoup View Post
    Also have scarpa rs130. That fucker is narrower than a Doberman plug in the toe and bigger than a five gallon bucket in the heel ankle.
    I like the fit of the XT3 Tour better than my Scarpas out of the box even without baking the liner yet. Way better heel hold, slightly snugger forefoot. Also, the Scarpas finally packed out too far for my liking (i.e. got real fucking sloppy) about a month ago, so I went looking for new boots. I tried on several boots including a K2 Mindbender, Hoji Free, Dynafit Radical pro (2022), Scarpa Maestrale, and maybe a couple of others I'm forgetting. The Lange fit the best out of the box, and the bootfitter I worked with at Bent Gate in Golden, CO felt it was appropriate for what, how, and how well I ski (more on that in a bit).

    My specific size 27.5 boots weighed in at 1595g and 1605g with the stock liners and footbeds. I did not weigh each component separately. There are others who have weighed their boots on this forum, and posted pictures that are in line with what I found. i.e. a couple people have this boot in a 27.5 and got within 5-10g of the weight I got. Even though I generally agree with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBC View Post
    Boot companies need to make real boots with walk modes. Donít make any sacrifices. I have not had a single customer ask how much a boot weighs in two years.
    I was pretty excited at the possibility of losing nearly a full pound (400g to be specific) off my feet compared to the Scarpas and still having something I could ski as a daily driver. Afterall, ski boot tech has come a LONG way since I got those Freedoms, and on paper this boot looked like a good match for what I was looking for. I guess that brings us to the "how do I feel about this boot" part of the post. Like I said, I love the fit but I don't love the way it skis. I'm not a great skier, but I try and ski challenging terrain and get better as often as possible. I don't consider myself a charger, more of a medium speed skier. I don't huck cliffs. I do like skiing steeper lines, and will hike/walk/shuffle/sidestep for a powder shot any fucking day of the week. I currently ski backcountry to inbounds at a 1:3 ratio favoring inbounds. Backcountry missions include everything from day touring in Colorado, skiing a larger single-hit line or 14er, hut trips, sidecountry adventures in Jackson or Snowbird, or whatever. I've always skied an AT boot, I've never skied a true alpine boot even as a kid as I didn't start skiing until my late 30s. So I'm not expecting these to ski like plug boots or whatever. Oh... and I'm a Large Human (as Marshal Olson has informed me guys like he and I are) at 6'2" and ~200 lbs.

    So apart from fitting me really well, this boot tours fucking great. Like, really well. I haven't baked the liners, so I still have a pesky hot spot on my right inner ankle (navicular) but even that is getting better as I wear the boot. Skiing is... a different story. As I said I'm not a great skier, and as I like to ski steeper more demanding terrain I think I ask a lot of my boots to bail my ass out when my technique sucks. Here's what I feel, three things I'd like to try and make better:

    • At speed on harder packed snow, particularly snow that's been skied up and is kinda rutted and such, the boot feels nervous. Like not confidence inspiring that it'll keep that ski edge planted while going fast. This is better if I get more on the front of the boot, but it's just not as composed feeling as I'd like. Could this be qualities of the Grilamid vs. a Pebex or PU boot? Like, it's not as damp? I'm just not sure exactly what I'm feeling here, or how to describe it. It's not quite chattery, just doesn't feel as connected to keep the ski planted on the snow. Not as composed.
    • I've found that if I have the skis at an angle to the fall line and I'm scrubbing or controlling speed, that if the front half of the ski hits some chop or a pile of snow or something, occasionally the boot feels like it folds at the ankle. Like, the toe dorsiflexes towards my shin real hard and quick. It's never caused a catastrophe, but it's disconcerting. As above, this seems better if I really concentrate on driving the boot through the tongue... which isn't necessarily easy or a strong suit for me given my non-race low-technique background and limited ankle strength and mobility from injuries. Could this be that the Lange has a really progressive flex, so where I'm skiing it is a bit softer than I'm used to but it ramps up to that 130 as it gets deeper in it's flex?
    • I don't think these have the rearward support that I would like or need. Especially compared to the Scarpas, if I get back-seated I feel like I'm in an office chair about to tip over backwards... except that occasionally I do tip over backwards. I know, I know... don't do that. Have I mentioned I'm not the best skier? Anyways... could this be a lean angle difference? Cuff height difference? Could shoving a shim or spoiler behind my liner help in this regard? I think the Scarpa has more of a forward lean than the Lange, as well as a rear spoiler doo-dad and taller cuff.


    So, I do like fiddling with shit. And there's enough people here that are making changes to this boot and given me some ideas that I'm gonna try some shit out. I've also talked to a couple bootfitters to get some recommendations, here's my list of things I'm gonna try to make this boot work:

    1. Rear cuff/shim/spoiler, for a couple of reasons. I think this will help me get in a more aggressive stance (the Lange seems pretty upright) and it'll help with more rearward support.
    2. Booster strap, or a Lange XT3 140 strap if I can source it. I wouldn't have thought of this, but the two bootfitters I spoke with said this could help me feel the full 130 flex of the boot earlier in the range of motion of the flex. Makes sense, not expensive, worth trying out.
    3. New liners, either a more robust Lange liner or just get an Intuition or Zipfit.


    The first thing I'm gonna try is just skiing the boot with the Intuition from the Scarpa, to see if that makes any sort of difference. At the same time, I'll also experiment with a rear spoiler by just adding the one from the Scarpa. It bolted in there fairly easily, and though it would really need to be grinded on a bit to be nice-nice it'll work as proof of concept.





    Gained under 100g adding the spoiler, liner, and heavier footbed from my Scarpa:


    I'm open to any commentary, advice, hazing, or whatever y'all got.
    Last edited by Full Trucker; 04-01-2021 at 09:04 AM. Reason: Updated threat title to include "Pro"
    The older I get, the faster I was.






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  2. #2
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    Here's the part where I quote other folks and ask more specific questions. Some of this might be repeated from above, I wrote them at different times. Sorry, not sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMarkus View Post
    Tried it with the shim completely removed, as well as lowered. Definitely better in both regards.

    With the shim completely out, I think I'll need to shorten the top buckle ladder. Possibly even drill a new hole. Makes me a little hesitant that it'll distort the upper cuff to get it tight enough.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

    Quote Originally Posted by YoEddy View Post
    It appears to be the same 'ol Lange cuff shim except bolted through the same hole as the power strap. I'll likely remove it but looks like it will need a shorter bolt No big deal.
    If either of you gents have taken out that rear spoiler and are definitely not gonna put it back in, I'd like to discuss taking it off your hands. As I said above, I'm in the XT3 Tour Pro and looking to do some experimentation. While I love the fit and touring in it, I don't love the way it skis. One idea I have is that I am used to more forward lean in a boot, so adding that spoiler might help me ski the boot a bit more forward. I've just pulled the rear spoiler out of a Scarpa Freedom SL (which I think is the same across many of their boots) and bolted it in there to start fiddling with stuff.

    Same goes if either of you (or anyone else in this thread) is ditching the 140 power strap, or either the 130 or 140 liners. The liner that comes with the Tour Pro just doesn't seem that great, feel to me limp like wet noodle. I will also be trying out the Intuitions from my Scarpas, but those are 7 years old and likely shot (hence why I bought new boots) so if it proves out that they ski better than the stock liners, I'll be looking to get something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by robnow View Post
    Also looking for a dedicated non touring liner. I work at an Atomic dealer so I grabbed some Mimics, nice in the ankle and tongue but shit in the forefoot, way too thin and loose (too much volume left, will try once more with the Bondex). Will probably end up with a foam injection.
    You too, sir. If you replace that XT3 140 liner with something lemme know, could be interested in the stock yours came with. But maybe you're gonna run the stock one for touring? Also an interesting idea... except the Tour Pro liner isn't even that great for the "skiing" part of touring.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Two days on my XT3 130 LV after 6 on my RS 130 plugs, and I'm stoked. There is definitely more volume out of the box, and I'm still trying to decide "if" and "how thick" a shim to run behind the liner cuff.
    From what I have read, the XT3 and XT3 Tour have the same forward lean. Did you decide to put a shim back there? How thick? And why? I have my reasons for wanting to try it out, curious to hear yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoVT Joey View Post
    Here let me show you the new Lange liners that are now being shipped back to Lange for the xt tour pro. They are shit and the heel collapses due to the foot sole being to short sewn on the boot liner base.
    You've said the stock XT3 Tour Pro liners are garbage, and the XT3 130 liners are much better. I'm inclined to believe you. Question for you is: are you getting a different liner from Lange? You said the stock Tour Pro liners are "being shipped back to Lange" so are they sending you something different in return? And if so, how did that work? Because yeah... if I can get Lange to swap me out these for either the Dual 3D Liner RACE or FULL that would be rad. I'm not opposed to throwing money at the problem i.e. getting an Intuition or Zipfit, but if I can get a better skiing liner than what I have to start with that wouldn't suck either.

    Also, isn't there that issue of aftermarket liners wanting to flip the tour mechanism back into ski mode while touring? Yes, yes there is... I read about it in the XT3 140 and 21/22 gear threads, and confirmed it last night by just chucking my Intuitions in the Lange and walking around the house. It seems like either the rougher/textured material of the liner or the stitching across that heel zone on the liner "grabs" the plastic wedge plate inside the boot that locks the cuff in place and moves it back into ski mode from tour mode. The general forum consensus is to loosen the upper cuff completely but being a guy who likes his upper cuff sorta semi-buckled and also being a tinkerer I thought there'd have to be a better way. I did some brainstorming with a bootfitter named Matt at Bent Gate last night, and we got looking at the mechanism and the liner for ideas. The Tour Pro liner has a piece of very soft and very smooth fabric right where the ski/tour wedge plate is in the boot, that assumably enables low friction against the wedge so the movement of the liner doesn't move the wedge. We came up with a couple of things that I am going to try out:

    1. Some sort of smooth slippery tape to the plastic plate in the boot. That plate has a bunch of holes in it, so maybe that's what the rougher liner material is grabbing on to and able to move it? The other thought I had was the same, but different: cover the liner with something like K-Tape, which would be smoother and more slippery, and also smooth out the rib caused by the stitching, making that less likely to grab onto that plate.
    2. Put a rear spoiler (shim, cuff, whatever you wanna call it) in there, that's just slightly thicker than the plastic ski/tour plate, and would hold the liner away from the plate just enough to give it room and not let the liner move the plate. I actually did a little proof of concept on this last night by bolting the rear spoiler from my Scarpa into the boot, chucking the Intuition in there, and walking around the house. I could see the lever on the outside wiggling a bit, but it never flipped into ski mode like it was doing without the cuff in there. Experimentation continues...
    The older I get, the faster I was.






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  3. #3
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    do you know if you have a Lange foot ?

    from what I hear Lange people can just buy Langes including their AT boots and they will fit like every other lange

    one of my ski buds often rides his bike past my house wearing lange AT boots
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  4. #4
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    I wish I'd known you were boot shopping. I have Zero Gs in 27.5 you could have demo'd.
    They ski great.

    I know, I'm not helping.

  5. #5
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    did you do the foot scan app that GregL posted up?
    It's a great way to get some feedback on your foot and he's a great bootfitter, but he's at EVO in seattle.

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ot-Scanner-App

    should be possible to get a punch in that inner left ankle area to alleviate the hot spot (just need a good bootfitter).

    I've found that the Intuition Powerwrap liner is a good one for stiffening up the boot a bit (sounds like you are part of the way there with the Scarpa Liner).
    Aggressive in my own mind

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    do you know if you have a Lange foot ?

    from what I hear Lange people can just buy Langes including their AT boots and they will fit like every other lange

    one of my ski buds often rides his bike past my house wearing lange AT boots
    Honestly I don't know if my foot is a Lange foot... but these things do fit really nice out of the box. I can only assume that means I have a "Lange foot". WRT the same fit across all Langes, not sure that's exactly the case anymore. These boots in particular have a last width that is different than any of the other boots, which assumably means they'd fit differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by N1CK. View Post
    I wish I'd known you were boot shopping. I have Zero Gs in 27.5 you could have demo'd.
    They ski great.

    I know, I'm not helping.
    You know, weren't we supposed to actually do something about skiing this week? Shit man, sorry I didn't get my poop in a group and confirm that with ya. Work has sucked anyways. But hey, if you ever wanna swap these boots for a day or two I'm down, I'd love to actually get more experience skiing different boots so I can start to figure out what works and what doesn't. Are yours the Zero G Tour Pro? Because as a mediocre skier, I can only ski Pro level boots. Obviously.
    The older I get, the faster I was.






    Punch it, Chewie.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoarhey View Post
    did you do the foot scan app that GregL posted up?
    It's a great way to get some feedback on your foot and he's a great bootfitter, but he's at EVO in seattle.

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ot-Scanner-App

    should be possible to get a punch in that inner left ankle area to alleviate the hot spot (just need a good bootfitter).

    I've found that the Intuition Powerwrap liner is a good one for stiffening up the boot a bit (sounds like you are part of the way there with the Scarpa Liner).
    Dude, thanks for the resource. I'll check that out... it'll be good to know more specifically what kinda hoof I have. I had the same navicular issue with the Scarpas, and just heat molding the liner with a donut spacer in there fixed it entirely. No pain or blisters in the Scarpas for over 6 years, a pretty good run. And yeah, I think testing the Scarpa liner will be a good proof of concept to see if a more aggressive liner helps with skiability. I'm hopeful it will. Shit, I think even the spoiler will make a difference for me. Hoping gregL or other knowledgable folk chime in and either tell me I'm crazy or on to something.
    The older I get, the faster I was.






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  8. #8
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    GregL said that donut pad thing you did is another option for naviculars?

    I have a spolier from the RX130 if you want a pair of those (those are the velcro backed ones, not bolt-through.

    ALso, I have a set of of the RX130 booster strap with the cam buckle if you'd want those.

    Maybe I can send you a photo of the boots I bought for parts, so you'd know the booster strap type (RX130 model from 2013 I think but is in great shape).

    I'll do that via pm
    Aggressive in my own mind

  9. #9
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    I actually ended up selling my xt3 140s, so no spoilers, sorry. I liked the boot well enough, but it turns out my foot is still too low-volume for the XT3. Just don't have a lange foot. Back to Tecnica.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

  10. #10
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    My guess is you bought the wrong boot for a quiver of one. You're a big dude and you are overpowering the boot under the poor performance scenarios you described. You could add a stiffer liner to the boot, but it would probably diminish the range of movement and would add substantial weight. It would also put you hundreds more into a boot that is not well designed for your use case, and may not really deliver the performance you paid for. If you want to be able to charge inbounds and still be able to tour with the same boot, you should look for something burlier. Maybe next year's Cochise: https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...ca-cochise-130

  11. #11
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    The cochise is what I was in previously. It's what I'm going back into as well as the mach1 lv 130.

    I also threw an intuition into the xt3 and it did help actually, but ultimately I still ended up with my top buckles maxed out.

    Edit: you may not have been talking to me...

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    Yeah, I was spraying at the OP.

  13. #13
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    Forgive me but everything in the OP's synopsis screams that he should be in the regular XT3 series (130 or 140) and NOT the Tour Pro. Nothing about the review is surprising. It's a lighter boot and skis so. The lack of rearward support sounds just like the previous generation Freetours which were also made of Grilamid so again, no surprises there.

  14. #14
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    TL;DR, although my OCD appreciates the thoroughness (and I'll return to a full read of this soon) ...

    It may well be that you don't have a Lange foot, but how can you judge a boot without molding the liners? This makes no sense to me. I don't know if Lange's liners have improved, but my first year's XT 130 Freetour liners were terrible. I never would have purchased them (or worse ... purchased the next larger shell size) had I not slipped a pair of my Intuiutions into them.

    In any case, liners were made to be molded so ... you know ... you can mold them ;-)

    Secondly, this lack of a supportive spine everyone reports, completely blows my mind. Are all of you guys dropping cliffs like Barkared, Turdell and company?

    It dawns on me that you may not bond with the Lange flat stance. I was a fairly late adopter of modern skis ... maybe 8 years ago. When I tried on my Freetours in the shop, they felt a bit odd, but suddenly, everything people were saying about flat stances began to make sense in the context of modern skis. It took me about 2 hours to get used to the new stance and I'd never go back. I can envision this not being the case for everyone,.

    Rent some tele gear for 3 or 4 days and find your balance point.

    There's a lot to unpack above, and I'll return to this ... when I'm not in such a snarky mood.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    TL;DR, although my OCD appreciates the thoroughness (and I'll return to a full read of this soon) ...

    It may well be that you don't have a Lange foot, but how can you judge a boot without molding the liners? This makes no sense to me. I don't know if Lange's liners have improved, but my first year's XT 130 Freetour liners were terrible. I never would have purchased them (or worse ... purchased the next larger shell size) had I not slipped a pair of my Intuiutions into them.

    In any case, liners were made to be molded so ... you know ... you can mold them ;-)

    Secondly, this lack of a supportive spine everyone reports, completely blows my mind. Are all of you guys dropping cliffs like Barkared, Turdell and company?

    It dawns on me that you may not bond with the Lange flat stance. I was a fairly late adopter of modern skis ... maybe 8 years ago. When I tried on my Freetours in the shop, they felt a bit odd, but suddenly, everything people were saying about flat stances began to make sense in the context of modern skis. It took me about 2 hours to get used to the new stance and I'd never go back. I can envision this not being the case for everyone,.

    Rent some tele gear for 3 or 4 days and find your balance point.

    There's a lot to unpack above, and I'll return to this ... when I'm not in such a snarky mood.

    ... Thom
    I think Thom is on track. I don't know about the ramp inside the Scarpa's, but I'm guessing its a lot steeper than Langes. Try a heel lift, start with 1/8" and then try more

  16. #16
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    Right on, I appreciate the responses. I was hopeful that some other XT3 Tour folks would get in here, and maybe they still will. But this is helpful for my knowledge... having not owned tons of ski boots I can't say that I know what I like and don't like, what works well for me and what doesn't. There's a lot that goes into boot design I'm learning, and maybe the general population won't notice a lot of the nuances in different ramp angles, plastics, etc. But once you start demanding more of your equipment these things start making more of a difference, even as a mediocre skier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wapow View Post
    My guess is you bought the wrong boot for a quiver of one. You're a big dude and you are overpowering the boot under the poor performance scenarios you described. You could add a stiffer liner to the boot, but it would probably diminish the range of movement and would add substantial weight. It would also put you hundreds more into a boot that is not well designed for your use case, and may not really deliver the performance you paid for. If you want to be able to charge inbounds and still be able to tour with the same boot, you should look for something burlier. Maybe next year's Cochise: https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...ca-cochise-130
    You might well be correct on this WRT "wrong boot for a quiver of one" and the only counter I have is... I don't think I'd want this boot as a tour-only boot either. All of the behaviors I've outlined I felt on the tours I did as well. One quick example: skiing soft 3D snow and getting into a rhythm with my turns and then hitting a hidden rib of wind slab kinda mid-turn made the boot feel like it was folding in the middle (my second bullet point). So yeah maybe a ~1600g boot just isn't in the cards for me, or just not this particular 1600g boot. Hopefully, I have some low-investment options to do some experimentation and figure this out, before I write these boots off and sell them.

    Quote Originally Posted by robnow View Post
    Forgive me but everything in the OP's synopsis screams that he should be in the regular XT3 series (130 or 140) and NOT the Tour Pro. Nothing about the review is surprising. It's a lighter boot and skis so. The lack of rearward support sounds just like the previous generation Freetours which were also made of Grilamid so again, no surprises there.
    The whole Grilamid vs. PU thing is absolutely something I wonder about as well. Stiff, Light, Damp: pick any two, right? Grilamid is stiff and light, and not damp. I think. More brittle. Could very well be contributing to what I am feeling. Who knew you had to also be a fucking materials scientist to be a skier? JTFC.

    The regular XT3 series may very well be a good option depending on a few factors. First, there's forward lean and ramp angle that Thom talked about, maybe I just don't get along with the flat stance of the Lange? The other thing here is, this 99mm last feels pretty fucking good... 97mm just seems like it'd be too snug for my foot given that navicular issue (though it could be punched?) and how the 99 feels, and would the 100mm last of the regular XT3 be too much like the 101 of the Scarpa? If the Lange has better heel hold at 100 than the Scarpa, it could work. But then fuck, I do think I'd want the stiffer liner, spoiler, and thicker strap of the 140 and that isn't available in a 100mm last. And mother fucking fuck those GripWalk soles... just why? WHY?

    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    TL;DR, although my OCD appreciates the thoroughness (and I'll return to a full read of this soon) ...
    Heh... your response wasn't all that short either, despite not having read the whole post. I look forward to your thoughts when you have time, seriously. Now, speaking of a lot to unpack...

    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    It may well be that you don't have a Lange foot, but how can you judge a boot without molding the liners? This makes no sense to me. I don't know if Lange's liners have improved, but my first year's XT 130 Freetour liners were terrible. I never would have purchased them (or worse ... purchased the next larger shell size) had I not slipped a pair of my Intuiutions into them.

    In any case, liners were made to be molded so ... you know ... you can mold them ;-)
    So... what the fuck is a Lange foot? Someone else asked that earlier... all I can say is the boot seems to fit my hoof pretty damn well, better than the Scarpa out of the box. I only have one hot spot, and that's a known issue that can be taken care of when heat molding the liner or punching if need be. And the pain on that navicular isn't so bad that it's keeping me from skiing, so I guess I'm not sure how heat molding them will make the boots magically ski differently or better or whatever. FWIW, the approach I've been told with new boots is if they fit relatively well out of the box, one should go ski them for a few days and get settled in so you know what issues you want to address when you do heat mold them. So that's where I was... but now I'm being stubborn about baking them in case I end up selling them. You know... "Basically brand new! Less than 10 days on 'em! Liners never baked! I just suck at skiing and can't get along with the Lange flat stance!" or whatever.

    As for the liners being garbage... SoVT Joey has said as much with the Tour Pro liner. He also asserts that the regular 130 flex XT3 liner made a huge difference in how the boot skied overall, so I'm gonna chuck the Scarpa/Intuitions in there to see if and how much difference that makes.

    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Secondly, this lack of a supportive spine everyone reports, completely blows my mind. Are all of you guys dropping cliffs like Barkared, Turdell and company?
    I am not dropping cliffs, but there's plenty of other places where rear ward support seems like a good idea. I'm thinking about skiing through the woods out of a hut, crossing weird gullies and other "g-out" spots where the terrain is just throwing you off balance and demanding a bit of spine support. Even for people with good balance this seem like a good thing, but for people with shitty balance like me even more critical. I'm sure we could come up with other non cliff hucker examples. Also, I'm a big dude that doesn't ski as far forward all the time as I ought to. I'm working on it, but until I get there my big ass is gonna need some spine.

    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    It dawns on me that you may not bond with the Lange flat stance. I was a fairly late adopter of modern skis ... maybe 8 years ago. When I tried on my Freetours in the shop, they felt a bit odd, but suddenly, everything people were saying about flat stances began to make sense in the context of modern skis. It took me about 2 hours to get used to the new stance and I'd never go back. I can envision this not being the case for everyone,.
    This feels like the gem in your post, to me. I was already kinda wondering about the stance, hadn't really considered ramp angle but was definitely thinking about the forward lean, hence my experiment of a rear spoiler. But yeah, if a flat ramp angle isn't my jam, then maybe this ain't the boot for me.

    Data point: Other than the Volkl Bridge I had for a season when I first started skiing 12 years ago, I have never owned a non modern ski. Rossi S7, Atomic Bent Chet, Soul 7, Atris, Corvus Freebird. I picked up a Rossi RC112 to dick around with because I've read so much about it's legacy that I wanted to try it out. It's a handful for a guy like me. But yeah... pretty much all modern skis I think. Not disagreeing with you about the flat stance possibly being "a" thing that's hitching my giddyup, just a data point.

    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Rent some tele gear for 3 or 4 days and find your balance point.
    Dude, don't get me started on my balance. Broken right ankle with two surgeries to fix it. Broke my left femur inside my hip socket, also surgical. Broke five vertebrae with one basically crushed, and am now fused through 4 of those vertebrae with rods and shit. My balance SUCKS. It sucks so much, the first time I tried learning to surf my instructor said "My friend, you have bad balance!" as I was paddling out... I hadn't even tried to fucking stand up yet. A lot of days I feel like it's a goddamned miracle I can even ski.

    As for the suggestion to rent tele gear... if I had any balance whatsoever I'd probably ski tele. More than half my ski partners are on tele gear, and I do own a tele setup but can't drop a knee to turn to save my fucking life. If I could, I'd be participating in the "Why the fuck can't Scarpa make a lighter TX Comp?" thread... if there is one.

    And if this was a thinly veiled wisecrack basically telling me to learn how to ski, well then now we're getting some of that snark I was promised.

    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    There's a lot to unpack above, and I'll return to this ... when I'm not in such a snarky mood.
    Thanks for your thoughts, there was less snark than maybe you think. Or I'm just used to the level of snark that TGR often provides so it didn't seem bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by turnfarmer View Post
    I think Thom is on track. I don't know about the ramp inside the Scarpa's, but I'm guessing its a lot steeper than Langes. Try a heel lift, start with 1/8" and then try more
    Good suggestion. Though at what point of shoving heel lifts in there do you just say fuck it and get a boot with more ramp angle? I've dug around and can't seem to find the ramp angle of the Scarpa. I know the forward lean is 2ļ more... so maybe a little FL and RA and this boot will work. But again, at what point do you just get a different boot?
    The older I get, the faster I was.






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  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fort Collins
    Posts
    385
    Being a somewhat similarly large human (but not as big as you) I think the cochise or maybe the XT3 130/140 may be what you want. As nice as it would be to have a more dedicated touring boot, I've found that the cochise is about as much as I'm willing to compromise. The performance even between my mach1's and the cochise is very noticable.

    I'm unwilling to compromise the beefiness of the cochise 130 for different reasons than you, but what you're describing about balance and your other foot issues I think suggests a more beefy boot than a touring specific boot like the xt3 tour or something like a zeroG. I can relate to a couple things like your low instep. Additionally, what you're describing in terms of instability sounds like it could be a mix of a lateral stiffness that doesn't match up with what you need, and I would make an argument that you may not have a boot that's as snug as you need around your tibia/ankle, even with an increased heel hold.

    I think what you may experience if you get the volume correct around your tib/fib & ankle with both boot volume and a footbed will result in less pronation and you may find the width of your foot more narrow than your previous experience.

    Course I could just be wrong too. But what you're describing isn't foreign to me personally in the cochise and XT3, or from what I've experienced fitting boots in the past.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    737
    You rang?

    Still waiting on langes response about the noodle liners. They donít have enough complaints yet to figure out what to do, but I also told them Iím not in that much of a rush. I have been skiing my xt3 liner in my xt3 tour pro. Itís definitely better. Iím waiting for my intuition tour tongue to come. I have a feeling that will be a lot better.

    I have a Lange foot. I can ski a Lange stock with a 2 minute grinding usually in the sixth two. The 97 I can slide into after about 5 minutes in sheíll work and then I can full send. Heel fits perfect. I have a low volume heel, flat wide-ish foot with a lower instep.

    The stance is very close to the same as the xt3 and the other langes.

    I have about ten tours on them. I really like them. Some of the best TOURING boots Iíve been in. Iíve skied the hoji, sold that and bought the Lange.

    I capitalized TOURING above. Hereís why. It definitely skis like a 1600g touring grilamid boot. This boot is perfect for backcountry missions, scrambling, boot packing, skiing steeps with confidence in equipment. They definitely ski. But they DEFINITELY DONT ski like the xt3 plastics. They arenít as damp and they donít have as nearly of a smooth flex.

    The only way I would have this boot as my dedicated boot would be if I skied backcountry 3:1 or more, if I worked in mountain ops, or was coaching. I would still have an alpine boot for hard snow.

    It sounds like the guys have all said it. Iíll say it again. It sounds like you should be in a XT3 50/50 boot.

    I really shit all over the xt3 130 in the beginning. And I still feel like the walk mechanism is a huggggeeeee piece of dog shit. But the xt3 130 and the tour pro definitely ski and feel like langes. I really like them. A lot. I donít hesitate to drive in either pair.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Au
    Posts
    448
    Alright, finally got out and skied the Tour Pros with my "mods" i.e. the rear spoiler bolted in and the liner from the Scarpas. The TL;DR version is: the boots skied way better with those changes.

    I skied closing day at Crested Butte on a mix of steep boney trees, steep bumps, wide open groomers, blah blah blah. Everything covered in slush... which was super warm and sloooooooow and wet on anything mid-mountain and below. The kinda slush where just sitting on the tails starts to feel like the right thing to do so the suction of sloppy wet snow on your haven't been waxed in months 108 underfoot skis doesn't send you over the bars. Anycrap, even the 7-year-old blown out liners skied better than the stock Lange ones, and the rear spoiler seemed to help put me more into the stance I'm used to and give more support in general.

    Not quite ready to give up on these boots, but at the same time I am certainly cognizant that a Cochise, XT3, or other 50/50 oriented boot might very well be what's best for me. I still want to get the boots up to my local hill and try different configurations of things... if for no other reason than to figure out how different hacks affect boot performance. I also picked up some Booster straps and I think hoarhey is sending me some RX straps and velcro spoilers to try out as well.

    I appreciate everyone's input so far.
    The older I get, the faster I was.






    Punch it, Chewie.

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